Jaager

The ships of 1701 were only superficially related to those of 1800. Although, unlike what happened over the next 100 years, the basic technology as far as building materials and propulsive technology was pretty much the same, there was a significant evolution over that 100 year span. If you have to cut it to an unrealistic bare bones, I suggest the following will cover the the subject in a broad manner: SCANTLINGS OF THE ROYAL NAVY 1719-1805 by Allan Yedlinsky THE 74 GUN SHIP Practical Treatise of Naval Art 1780 by Jean Boudriot - all 4 volumes.

Well, PP completed the transfer of funds, so I made the purchase of the box of plans. Today, I was notified that the box has been shipped. I paid for the higher level shipping. It should not be too long before I find out if these plans fit my requirements.

I have no definitive answers, just some thoughts: Your finished product will "live" in what ever is the relative humidity of your interior environment. A humidifier can be added to your HVAC system. This will involve incurring added expense, attention, and maintenance. It also involves constant isolation of your interior environment. But you pays your money and takes your chances with this sort of choice. I suggest that it is better to assemble in the same conditions as those of the finished object. I would be more concerned about the transported finished models and how they fare when they equilibrate with lower humidity. My suggestion is to step back to a wider focus and work with species of wood that are less brittle and more appropriate to begin with. This does involve having to become, at the bare minimum, a magnitude more involved in what your shop will need. Appropriate species are not easily obtained.

I did. That is how I obtained the information that I posted. I have the hope that someone with more knowledge will jump in an expand on this. The postage on the plans is significant. There seems to be some weight and volume there. I am willing to take the gamble that they are what I think they are.

An email add came in from ANCRE yesterday. I have no French, so I can only guess about them. The subject seems to focus on the fleet of Louis XVI that was involved in the battle at the Chesapeake Capes that allowed for the successful siege at Yorktown. The text is French only, so I will wait for an English translation. There also seen to be a set of what I guess are lines plans at 1/72 or smaller for many of the vessels of the French fleet. I tried to use the main site to translate, but the new product is not there yet. My CC company added a new step with a password that I have no clue about - so my purchase failed. I have to wait for PayPal to do a transfer ( with these ridiculously now interest rates, what is the point in PP taking a week to transfer funds? ) ( I neither have nor want the capability for text on a phone - but banks are seeming to act like EVERYBODY has active phone texting. ) I am really interested in seeing if this new set is really lines plans for a whole French fleet. For one, the City of Paris is potentially a big deal here - being just down the road from Cape Henry.

A first rate ship of the line was a significant undertaking for any government of the time. A model of one involves similar effort on the part of an individual. Should you begin to feel overwhelmed or discouraged give some thought to leaving the project on the ways and switching to a much smaller vessel - not smaller in the actual model size - rather a smaller vessel at a larger scale. When the basics become a familiar skill, the first rate will seem to present a more shallow slope.

I may well be alone in this, but I have no clue about the subject of your inquiry. The best I can imagine is that your area of interest is steel Navy or merchant and it is an older vessel with an uneven multi coat paint job that is being simulated. If this is the situation, the guys who do plastic models and whose focus is on the finish instead of the structure are probably a more productive resource. For me, and I suspect many others who focus on wood, paint and the finish are a necessary evil.

I suspect that this particular vessel is a fictional one. This means that it is difficult to get it wrong - since there is no specific right - as long as you are true to what was done in the particular time period. I did a Google search and looked at the UK site for Mantua kits. The copy reads as though this is indeed a stand in for a broad class of two masted brigantines. The site photo shows a quarter badge and the vessel looks mid 18th century to me. 1. the site lists instructions in English. - perhaps contact with them could gain you a copy of their instructions. 2. they list it as being 1:150 scale - this is well within the miniature range - it makes matching prototype practice difficult - tricks and illusions are needed -these are their own set of skills. 3. Wooden ship model kits are a unique sort of critter. I think it is not reasonable to expect the instructions for a particular kit to be sufficient information for completion. They should be complete in the What for a particular vessel. The How is a different matter. There are books aplenty covering construction techniques and the myriad paths available to get there. There are journal articles readily available. This site has CD versions of three of the four major English language ship model journals. Only Model Shipwright is being lost to time. This is probably due to a major failure at the Suit level of the publisher. This site has build logs. The methods shown are far from specifically limited to the individual subject. For miniature - there are three major books that I think can still be obtained. If you are in anyway serious about this, the accumulation of a significant reference library is all but unavoidable. The period of your ship has a fairly large volume of available information - both contemporary and more modern interpretations.

I think that the garboard is the key factor. The imperative is to avoid having it creep up at the stem and stern. The horizontal part of the rabbet ends farther back than is intuitive. It is important to start cutting into the plank where the horizontal ends. The other suggestion is to use the planking fan to measure the spilling for each strake anew.

In theory, I would use a slitting blade. Thin sheets of non ferrous metal will probably react poorly to the stress of cutting if it is pushed thru the blade by itself. I would use thin sheets of model aircraft plywood and double sided tape to make a sandwich. The metal fixed between two sheets of ply. Cut using one of the more coarse toothed slitting blades, but still a lot of teeth. I have no actual experimental data to confirm that this would work. But, I expect that curling and other adverse problems would be avoided. A top hold down stick and butt end pusher should resist kickback.

Mark, The remark about builders plans was meant as bait for others. It was not aimed at you. There is/are thread/s about the USN pre War of 1812 frigates that seem to disparage builders plans and get way into the weeds, making a major production of microscopic factors. The implied tone is that unless the plans are perfect, a model of the ship should not be attempted. Maybe if the build was for display in a naval historical museum, I see the the validity, but otherwise, not so much. About your above comments, I am all but horrified when I see a model of the supposed 1799 frigate with an elliptical stern. "That's just not right."

Mark, HIC drew the builders plan for Congress/Constellation (HIC #8) so SI would be one possible source. I am perplexed by the disdain expressed for the value of builders plans. At base it is a chance to see how our shipyards do using the original source.

Caution is advised regarding this name. It was used for two different ships. The 1799 frigate underwent the fade based evolution at a time of great change, so the year that you are representing has an affect on the dimensions. There is data in the Appendix of HASN. The second ship with this name still sort of exists. It was a corvette and the last of the sailing warships for the USN. It has undergone several severe cosmetic alterations, some pure fantasy that tried to make it into the 1799 frigate. HASN has dimensions for Albany that are within a decade of the launch of the corvette. The various captains had a lot of say in how these ships were spared and some were fad prone. This is probably a situation were close enough is good enough. A more important factor is to get the spared and rigged model into a protective case. A view of restoration logs here should demonstrate the result of leaving a model of a sailing vessel open to the environment.

Ash, like Hickory and any Oak, has open pores and a distinct and distracting grain. This causes any one of them to be a poor choice for any part that is to be left natural. It also requires that the pores be filled if any of these species are to be painted. If the framing is to be completely planked over and the deck is completely planked, Ash will serve, since it will be totally hidden. Pet peeve about the internet: Now, about your question as asked, This is not any sort of competition. A ranking based on some arbitrary score serves no purpose. Using the superlative tense is some creature of the internet, and in most cases takes a discussion in a non productive direction. In addition, the best in a group that is all crap, is still crap. A productive ask would be a search for excellence. You do not supply your location on Terra. If you are located in eastern North America, and you are seeking commercially available domestic wood that is a reasonable price, Hard Maple and Black Cherry are excellent species to use for framing. If you can harvest, mill and season your own wood, the choice of excellent species becomes a much larger one.

If support for a sail does not fit, could it fit another function? Would it work as part of a crane? Would there be work for a floating crane during its period. I tried to imagine how or even why it would function as a single mast with alternate steps.

This product system may be a solution: Modern Masters AM203-04 Metal Effects Primer , 4-Ounce Modern Masters ME149-06 Reactive Metallic Copper Modern Masters PA901-04 Aging Solution Green Modern Masters PA902-04 Aging Solution Blue Patina, 4-Ounce there is a comment on Amazon about it having been used on plastic.

I made a simple one that worked for some Holly, but It was nowhere close to being a spec based kiln. 1" foil faced sheathing cut up to make a 4 sided box. The end pieces were Home Depot craft 1" Styrofoam. It was in a wall shelf, so it was just a push fit. Heat source - 200-300 Watts of incand. light bulbs. The bulbs ought not to get close to the foam or touch the wood. I only had wire clamp bulb fixtures, but next time I would get ceramic fixtures - I used a computer muffin fan for exhaust of water vapor. The loose fit was the air intake. There are low cost probe moisture meters and I used a battery thermometer that saved the highest temp. It was in my garage, so the temp was affected by ambient. I did not want to cook the Holly, I just wanted the temp to be higher than what Blue Mold would like. I was in no hurry to season it, but that mold invades quickly. It was already too late for the stock that came out of my cousin's wood pile, But unlike what mold did to some Apple I stored incorrectly (oatmeal instead of wood in structure) infected Holly is still sound. It is just not white. But my cousin's Holly is yellowish anyway. Like Apple, Plum is going to have sugar in its transported water. My take home lesson from the long ago Apple experience = slow seasoning of 6-8" logs will have problems from mold as well as being prone to splitting - especially if the cut ends and branch cuts are not completely sealed. I was in my early 20's and had never seen a bandsaw, much less know what one was for.

Any fruit wood is usually an excellent choice. The best time to harvest is usually when the tree is dormant. It will probably be harder that Cherry, close the Apple - which is King. For hull planking, you will have to see the actual planks re: the color and uniformity. But for anything else, fittings, furniture, catheads, beams, etc. it will be excellent. The harvesting technique has been covered in this form several times. The short list is: seal the ends - old paint will serve do it ASAP debark - insect larvae that bore live there. Drawknives were designed for this but freehand bandsaw is less actual work, but can cost more wood Get it into billets soonest if you can. A free standing bandsaw is the more efficient tool to do this. Sticker - good ventilation and air circulation - in a covered location or an atic Access to a kiln gets the seasoned wood more quickly. Air drying = 1 year per inch in thickness.

An 1826 contract for two US navy corvettes specifies that deck planks be Heart Pine 40 feet long. Those primeval Pines were still tall and straight. My thinking is this would be the outside limit for any component. The hull planking was a lot less heroic in length. A good ball park length would be 20 to 25 feet long.

I suspect That Ebony is the subject of more misleading substitution than is Boxwood. In any case, there is not the profit or social status with ship models as there is with guitars as far as the decoration. My bias suggests that using one of the Ebony group on a kit upgrade is like doing a high class upgrade in a trailer park. The quality is evident, but the environment makes the effort a misplaced one. For a substitute, Holly is appropriate, but the Wood Database lists other species that accept dyes. This is a situation where slang shorthand can lead to misunderstandings. A stain - the noun - is a form of semi transparent paint - surface only. It is pore filling and this makes the product a problem with PVA bonding. Actual black paint may as well be used. To stain - the verb - includes the use of the semi transparent paint and also the effect of a dye. Wood dyes are available from wood working vendors - there are two types - alcohol and water. The alcohol does not raise the grain, It also does not penetrate as deeply as water based dyes. For black, I would think that two treatments should work, with a sanding step after the first treatment to repair the raised grain. The dye can be used on the loose plank and it will PVA bond as well as if it were not treated. I have it in mind to try a technique used by a traditional Carolina furniture makes (PBS). He dissolved a steel wool pad in a quart of vinegar (5% acetic acid) . He then wet pieces of Maple with a solution of tannic acid and sanded /scraped the raised grain and then coated it with the iron acetate solution. The effect was a dense black.

Sanding sealer is for use on open pore species, such as Oak, Hickory, Ash, Walnut. The pore and grain structure places them in the category of woods that scale in an undesirable way and are not appropriate for our uses. The desired species do not need their pores filled and there is no need for a sanding sealer type product. The material itself tends to leave a layer that is too thick for scale uses.

Devildog, You may have more resources than you realize. The Washington Ship Model Society is based in northern Virginia. Between it and the local woodworkers guild and the local schools, you may have access to the use of the necessary machinery to produce your own stock. Not far from you - in Elkwood, VA is C.P.Johnson Lumber - with excellent prices on Hard Maple, Black Cherry, Yellow Poplar, Yellow Birch their inventory is out of the two exotics that I would consider = Yellow Heart (Pau Amarillo) and Granadillo (Macacauba). The other domestics have unuseful grain characteristics.

Shellac is as close to being a 'universal' primer as can be had. It is available as flakes and already in solution. The flakes are for when a clear finish is the goal and no darkening of the wood is desired. The solvent is alcohol. Super Blonde is close to being water clear, but the solubility in alcohol is about 1/2 that of Garnet. If a paint is going over it, it is easier to just purchase is premixed and dilute it. The first coat should a half strength concentration . The hows and whys of using shellac have been discussed more than once in this forum. Bob Cleek has done the best job of explaining, It is a very old and times tested material so it has old measures - pounds cut - which is pounds of flakes per gallon of alcohol. I think garnet is 10 lbs cut for saturation which rounds out to being a 10% solution. Battery operated small scales are not expensive, so it is easy to weigh out 10 gm and qs to 100 ml with shellac thinner or 5 gm of super blonde and qs it to 100 ml with shellac thinner.

It is always associated with a spar and an attached yard and sail jutting out over the bow. Do a mock up and determine what sort of staying lines and retaining structure is needed to make this sail functional. Determine if it would require an active human presence at the fore end to handle the sail. This could clear up the function and just how large and strong it would have to be. It is near impossible to forget how it all evolved over the next 1500 years but the bare minimum is likely to be close.

The core of your problem is due to the species of wood that was supplied, If your objective is to assemble the craft using the supplied materials, fight on. If your objective is to develop skills and progress to more complex subjects, use this as an opportunity to slip in a bit of scratch building experience. Replace the supplied wood with a species that will hold up to what is being asked of it.