My database reports that:

A background piece of paper or card with the shrouds and foot ropes lined out might help keep the progression on track.

The angle (slope) of each shroud and the proper tension - remember that the deadeye and their links follow the slope of their shroud -

and the horizontal of the foot ropes are neigh on to impossible to get correct anywhere but in situ.

3 hours ago, kgstakes said:

I want to keep this lathe but for my “hobby shop” would like to have something smaller because of space and be able to move it around if needed.

Penn State sells a universal duplicator that might do as a one off for  the limited number of round deck fixture items on a wooden ship.

https://www.pennstateind.com/store/universal-duplicator.html

As for a smaller lathe,  it might be less costly to wait until you reach a point in a build where a lathe's function can't be replicated using a clamped drill or something. 

Most modelers who strictly stick to building wooden vessels will never really need a lathe - or a righteous  small machinists mill.  Both are necessary for working metals to make other machines,  but are self-indulgent gingerbread in even a scratch builder working wood's tool kit if running economically lean.

I find that the range of possibilities for ship types to be so large that being overwhelmed into something like catatonia to be the result.  My solution is to pick an era - or ship type  - something to reduce the  seduction of another "interesting type".-  Finding a story to tell can also help.   If you can do this, then you can choose a quality kit of a vessel with less complication and less breadth of complexity from within these self imposed limits.  Also, having a target challenge can help get over and thru the inevitable time when your muse goes on vacation or you need a break. 

14 minutes ago, challenger86 said:

I wouldn't know where to start.

Collect as much data as can be had.

If you have enough for a build, decide some basic factors -  Waterline or complete hull.  Scale.  How much detail.  Materials.

There are books covering waterline steel.

Photo etch (PE) can be a big help in fabricating details - in replicate - that previous methods could only wish for.

I have no experimental data, but what I have observed with the stability of plastic suggests that parts made using 3D printer plastic will prove to be evanescent.  

The properties that allow it to be so easily manipulated will be probably be the same properties that make it vulnerable to UV and 02 for continuing polymerization and embrittlement  - shedding outer layers until it is a pile of powder. 

A hull made using clear construction Pine would be about as low cost as it gets.

For ripping - a thin blade with lots of teeth seems like a good idea, but it is not.

The thicker the stock, the fewer the  teeth and deeper the gullet to carry away the kerf cut.

When the gullet is full, the cutting edge in front of it cannot cut.  The stress and friction heat has the blade seeking the path of least resistance.  If the blade is thin enough it will twist or flex or whatever the correct verb is to describe it getting out of plane.

I guess that both have fairly straight forward hulls - easy to carve from mirrored stacks of WL layers - scratch allows for any scale - 

Even getting adequate plans could be a challenge

one lead:

Anvers. Red Star Line Museum

The collections of the new museum come partly from loans from the Antwerp city museums (Letterenhuis, Plantin-Moretus, MAS, etc.). But the bulk of the objects and documents, managed today by the non-profit organization Friends of the Red Star Line, were originally collected by Robert Vervoort, a retired dockworker and passionate collector of everything associated with the Red Star Line. history of the disappeared shipping company (advertising and administrative prints, ship plans, etc. souvenirs and objects used on board liners, etc.). Monumental triptych by the painter Laermans, The Emigrants (1896) is on loan from the Royal Museum of Fine Arts in Antwerp. Let us also mention a series of works loaned by the Eugeen Van Mieghem Museum, a small private institution dedicated to the memory of this talented Antwerp painter, "people's artist" whose realistic drawings, engravings and paintings immortalize the daily life of port workers and emigrants in his native district, het Eilandje. But, beyond the works of art, documents and period objects, it is the personal testimonies of Red Star Line passengers which constitute the common thread of the museum presentation. As the major construction site of the museum progressed in recent years, the team of researchers from the new institution led an intense campaign to collect testimonies and personal objects from former passengers of the Red Star Line and their descendants, in Europe. like in North America. This campaign made it possible to expand the museum’s initial collection.

If the USN had her, perhaps the National Archives has something?

file:///C:/Users/Jaager/Downloads/chungosgr-1.0216303.pdf

https://test.marinersmuseum.org/search?query=DE GRASSE (STEAMSHIP%3A 1924)

7 hours ago, JerryTodd said:

I have one of those Harbor Freight belt/disk bench sanders. 

I have one also.  The belt is 4x36.  I have never mounted the disk sander.  The belt is useful for grubbing away the bulk of wood for bevels for frames at the bow quarter and aft quarter.  I work a stack of frames in the +/_  1.5" thick range of thickness.  The table is only helpful for a small part.  Most is freehand.   There is a vac hose socket at the back.  It is in a piece of sheet metal that is so thin that the vac pulls the sheet metal into the moving belt.  I have to use steel corner braces to shim it out.  For the flat, the vac is only partially effective.  For working inside curves, I use the rounding end at the top.  A side funnel for the vac gets some of the dust, but most of it goes airborne.  The work space become drifts and dunes of sawdust.  It is epic.

A set of very sharp gouges would probably be a slower but much less messy way to debulk and free my frames now that I consider it. 

On 12/27/2023 at 11:36 AM, Roger Pellett said:

Cut strips from ordinary lumberyard construction grade pine and laminate them with  PVA glue.

My back of the envelope calc has the Home Depot endcap 2x4's coming in at ~ $0.75 per BF.  If you have the tools to cut them, that price is difficult to beat.

1 hour ago, dvm27 said:

fence is a press fit with four steel pins.

I forgot - not screws but it is  four something- the fit is tight - a watch case opener or seam separator may cause less scarring than a flat screw driver

1 hour ago, kgstakes said:

Byrnes fence --  need to unscrew to remove  (  True ??  Loosen 4 screws to take of  ? )

Is true

1 hour ago, kgstakes said:

Byrnes sliding table --  I seen in the video that the slot for the blade is wider than the saw blade.  ( seen in video that you need a backer board so no tear out on your work piece)  True??

"the saw blade"?   the width of possible blades ranges from the ones with carbide teeth to slitting/slotting blades that are too thin for doing more than that - i.e. even though the narrow width and resulting reduced loss to kerf on a rip cut makes them tempting for  use on thicker stock, they do not have the necessary properties to do a proper job of it.

I do wish that Jim had offered a second style of sliding table with a shorter right side so that the fence could be slud to the side instead of having to remove it.

A homemade version is easy enough but the Al and bells and whistles of the Jim version is cool.

1 hour ago, kgstakes said:

Byrnes Micro adjustment --  Optional -- seems like it works very well.

The Vernier dial defeats me a bit.  I am thinking about seeing if I can adapt a:

iGaging Digital Readout DRO 6" Travel X-Large LCD Display EZ-VIEW PLUS

but then - the NRG Thin Strip Saw Jig may make it superfluous.

The machine that are useful to you will very much depend on the jobs that they are needed for.

My Byrnes 5" disk sander is an integral part of my process.  I need a lot of precise end meets end joints that have zero room for play. I have never needed anything more aggressive than 220 grit and even that chews thru narrow stock quickly.  I need A LOT of light at the action point. I do not know if a slower speed would be of much help.   The key step is with the feed rate of the stock. The mass of the 5" disk does not mess around - it takes a while to power down - the dust collection is as effective - better even  - than with any other machine that I use.  Were I using plastic as a material, the variable speed 4" would be vital to avoid melting.  With wood, finger force rate can control heat generation.

I have a combo 1" belt/5" disk machine. Mine is branded Dremel, but all of the ones that I have seen look the same.  I find it noxious to use.  For the disk - the table is poorly designed and fabricated.  Dust collection is a joke.  The belt is too narrow and the tracking is flimsy.  It takes being overly generous to call what it has "a table".  Dusk collection is an unfulfilled wish.  It is useless for inside curves and the wrong geometry for outside curves.  A drum is better at doing both.  There is a single contact point with a round drum.  Collateral loss is limited by the round versus a flat grit face.   I guess for other types of woodworking, this could be a useful tool.  Ship modeling involves working with complex curves and this limits our degrees of freedom for useful machines.

I have wanted an angled drill for work inside a hull. 

I have a right angle adapter that fits a Dremel.

I have a right angle adapter that fits a Foredom.

What I most want - for sanding in tight quarters is a 45 degree adapter.  No luck there.

The adapters are bulky and awkward for use in the tight spaces we work in.

I have a different approach for you.

Use a small Chinese DC motor instead. 

Aliexpress had/has  vendors that offer a wide variety of DC motors.  Many quite small.  many with collet chucks and Jacobs chucks.  A variety of chuck sizes.

They are not at all expensive.  Some are two, three, four finger width long - minus the chuck and bit, but if you can get your hand in there are motors that will fit.

As for a power source, why not cut to the chase? 

A benchtop DC power supply -  this one has clicks for 1.5V, 3V, 4.5V,... to 14V  so the rotational speed is under your control.

No batteries  or set DC plugin with a set output to try to parse a value for.

https://www.mpja.com/15-14V-2-Amp-Variable-Output-Supply/productinfo/36688+PS/

and

There are smaller gauge wires, but the plug that fits at one end and small alligator  clamps at the other are handy.

The rotation reverses if you switch the leads.

https://www.mpja.com/Set-of-2-Test-Leads-2-meter-Silicone-Ins-Red-Black-Pair/productinfo/32734+TE/

I did a search for shellac flakes in UK  and it came up on Amazon UK.  There is probably pre-mixed also.

The solvent is ethanol 95% (It has a strong bond with water. If you started with 100% ethanol, it will pull water vapour from the atmosphere until it is back to 95%.) old time = 100% methanol,  or 99% isopropanol.

For flakes, the lighter the flakes, the less soluble.  I read and had accepted that dewaxing removed a solubilizer, but I wonder if dewaxing actually just reduces the weight?  The part that is shellac may be just as soluble and the fraction that is something else just reduces the overall weight as it is removed?

Half saturated shellac is a near universal primer.  Wipes on, soaks in, dries fast and just about any follow on material - polymerizing oil, paint - acrylic or organic solvent based, varnish - water or mineral spirit,  will bond to it.

Add a bit of catalyzed linseed oil to the pad with the shellac and it is French polish.

6 hours ago, Tony28 said:

I need to oil the deck

Which is the product that you are naming "oil"?

For the deck furniture that is wood, PVA to bond.

For metal - two part epoxy.

For plastic - no idea.

PVA requires a porous or rough surface for its hyphae to get a grip. rough bare wood.

Epoxy will bond to which ever material it meets - except maybe plastics or if your "oil" is actual oil - like mineral oil or castor oil that stays liquid - no bond.

If it is a polymerizing oil  - Tung, Linseed, or various nut oils - the epoxy will bond to it and the strength of the oil bond to wood will be the strength of the fitting's bond.

Old style oil based vanish was often Linseed with a heavy metal catalyst to speed polymerization.

Polyurethane is straight up plastic.  If this is what you mean by varnish, I am with you in finding it unacceptable.

In any case, any fitting should bond to the bare wood.  Protect the footprint of the fitting with tape before you apply any clear finish.

You seem determined about the oil,  so suggesting half saturated shellac as a primer or solo and rhen full strength shellac if a clear layer is desired.

If you are serious about assuring that the fittings stay bonded, add a mechanical component.

This is tricky to do.  For metal or plastic,  a solid brass pin - fit into a hole in the middle of the fitting's footprint and into a hole in the deck. -epoxy both ends.

For a wood fixture - a bamboo "dowel" "trunnel" instead of brass.  PVA.  - This is really "old school".

Up date:

For my rough 8x4 - I now have a Craftsman benchtop planer.  It said to use a jointer, but it smoothed out the minor cupping -  I took 1/32" passes - several of them -  Still did not fix the horrible 2" faces, but the 6-8" faces are as clear as I wish - I am happy with it.  I have room to park it on my Ryobi BT3000 table.   I think that I can place it in the middle and plane stock where it is.  It is no fun to move.

I tried a 2" straight bit on an under the table Wen router, but the guide setup was beyond me so that was a mess. 

I plan to try mounting a 3" drum and doing multiple passes.  I have a speed control box - a rheostat I think - the question is - will the motor have any torque at the 1700 rpm range that the sanding drum requires?

One of the 2' Maple 8x4 stock had a branch root or something irregular and my bandsaw blade did a bit of wandering with the change in grain direction.  It will be touch and go to get 100% return to produce 0.25"  220grit stock from my initial thickness.

Now, moving on to my original thickness sander upgrade project.   I have new pillow blocks and shaft collars.  I have an 18" x 1/2" shaft with a key way.  And  the 4" x 11" Al cylinder is here.  Boy am I surprised at how heavy it is.   It worries me a bit about the work on the motor to move that thing.  But, it has to turn it, not lift it - there will be a lot more momentum.   I was just notified that the 6" wedges will be here on Monday, so everything needed is almost here.

The local fabrication shop says they will treat me fairly.  I think I will wait out the season before I do my visit.

Cutting a big hole on each side of the box was a really good idea.  The motor does not get too hot.  Now I wear out before the motor.  The old one had a thermal switch and it stopped after an hour or so.

I live in Norfolk,  I think I remember being shown a small building on the main here base that had woodworking tools that the living on base team members could use for hobby projects.  If your duty stations also have this,  get the specifics for the machines there and buy your own blades.  If they have a router with a table, you could also have your own bits to have trade mark molding profiles on your cases.

See what picture frame jigs are there.  Maybe base maintenance has a woodworking shop - if they have not outsourced even that?

Another possibility:  for each base, do whatever passes these days for wanted pages with base personnel, and get with someone who already owns the machines that you will need.  Get their data and buy your own blades and bits to fit their machines.  I would be much more likely to lone out use of my machines, if the borrower brought his own gear that will dull, or break.

You really do not want to haul full size machines from base to base - or at least I would not care to do it.

Real world - a finished kit model would probably sell for about what the original kit costs.  For this one that is ~$300.

If you are building this for income instead of pure enjoyment, you would make much more money per hour doing a job that requires wearing a paper hat.

For the model in question, you should either stub the masts and repair the deck/hull yourself or give it a Viking funeral.

If you were to consider repairing it yourself, your time would be better spent building a different ship.  You have checked Endeavour off your list.

If I were to place a bet on the situation, my money is on you having to write the whole thing off and concede the victory to your Ex.

The only one likely to profit from pursuing this is your lawyer.

15 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

Bridge City offers a chopstick tapered planing jig that uses the HP-8 plane called the "Chopstick Master."

I have in mind the concept that spars were not exactly a straight line taper.   Is it not a curve with a slope that increases - with most of the increase in the outer quarter?  A very shallow ellipse?

Now that I visualize it. A jig with parallel sides and a shim that slides under the spar.  The shim would allow for an elliptical profile.

I think the process would be significantly faster than a lathe.  Planing along the grain would mimic the action of an adz and not leave a surface that is a series of concentric rings - which is what a lathe does. 

2 hours ago, Intasiabox said:

the wood gets too dried out and splits and cracks, making it unusable.

I have no doubt that this is a frequent occurrence with the older POB kits from some companies.

I do question the explanation.  Wood is fairly to significantly old before it is even harvested.

Once felled, the wood will then have its original water content reduced to ambient humidity (seasoning).

How long this takes involves a number of factors - thickness being a major one.  From then on wood will

change its concentration of water to be in balance with the humidity of its surrounding air.

I propose that the major problem with these older kits lies with the choice of wood species selected for inclusion in the kit.

From day one with these kits it is GIGO as far as how the wood behaves.  Using glue, finishing agents, paint, etc.  will alter how it responds over time.

However you factor this out,  our dominant investment by far is: TIME.

We never get it back. 

We will never be compensated at any hourly rate commensurate with that of professionals doing similar skill level jobs.

Quality wood does not fight you at ever step.  Its presentation is more appropriate.

Your time would be better spent building quality kits.  The intangible feeling is more pleasurable.

If you are determined to proceed with this,  your experience will be more rewarding if you were to replace every wooden part with a quality wood.  Use the original wood as patterns where this is worth doing.  If the cost of the second hand kit does not make this economical to do, you would be spending too much.

You might get a more informed response at Renderosity or DAZ.

I think that Poser and DAZ Studio have better tools than Blender for dealing with biologicals - humans and animals.

I have been out of that world for about 10 years.

On 12/4/2023 at 2:40 PM, allanyed said:

I have seen the white bottoms planked with holly rather than using paint and it is a truly beautiful thing but invariably seems to follow the sheer of the wales, not the waterline. 

I have done the thought experiment of how to place a strake - that looks like a strake - made up of two different species of wood and have them butt at the waterline and have all of the other strakes that cross the waterline - when seen together - have that waterline appear to be a straight line.  There are at least two variables in play with this.   I think juggling one ball at a time is enough for me.   Just running the bottom planking as is normal starting below the wale as a single species - seems to be the best way to keep sane.

7 hours ago, Dr PR said:

I have spent quite a bit of time trying to find reliable period references for the colors on ships - with little luck.

The early ANCRE volumes came with a sheet of color chips.

I have a vague recollection that EAR Jr.  had early 19th century color chips in the journal - As long as they were based on mineral paints, they should be valid as likely shades possible  - for thousands, if not millions of years.

Moran tugs have an ongoing presence here in the lower Bay.

There is a Dumas kit for Carol Moran

Plans for Moran tugs do not jump out at you.

If you want a Revolutionary War vessel - There are NMM plans for the frigate Roebuck -  a first generation sister was Charon - who's  coppered lower hull is still on the bottom of the York right at where your daughter lives (I think). 

Any of the NMM plans for Revolution War era British sailing merchantmen could stand for the ones sunk during the Yorktown campaign.

I searched for plans for the tug Dorothy 1891 - Newport News Shipbuilding and Drydock hull #1

DOROTHY: HULL NUMBER ONE COMES HOME
FOX,WM A
NAUTICAL RESEARCH JOURNAL
1976
22
183-202  
STEAM BOAT NA 19TH
A
DOROTHY

This article contains a full set of plans -  The CD ....

I looked again -  and brick is a bit small   

4"x11"   6"x9    pick a size and hope it matches your need .

I also made a smaller "table"  with a 1" foam top.  I made holes in it to hold my carving chisels - the height set to keep the tips hanging suspended, but the base is a layer of foam "just in case" it is not high enough.  The suspension keeps the blades in view so I can see which is which - side slots hold my scrapers - you want a set of small size luthier's scrapers -  shop - boy is there a wide range of prices  for a set like this:

Peachtree's $25 does not seem that bad.

19 minutes ago, Dr PR said:

there is one in my neighbor's yard that I would happily cut down to see

So far, I have found that the wood of closely related species has many if not most of the characteristics that we desire in the species on our list.

The color will probably be different, but the basic structure seems to hold.

If carving is of interest or perhaps bitts, catheads, belfry, etc.  It would probably be worth investigation.  

I am guessing that your neighbor wants to keep it and you would rather the situation was otherwise.

If you can get at it - all together now:  debark, seal the cut ends, and sticker - out of the weather😉.

Yup, I was discussing Pyracantha - the name was in deep memory and did not come in readily- painful to prune.  I had an even worse small thorny bush - the numerous thorns had a constriction just behind the tip, so that it would break off and stay in skin - really sharp so it went deep with little force. No wood with that one. Too small. 

10 minutes ago, grsjax said:

Hawthorn seems to be a fairly common tree in the Northwest. 

I believe that August Crabtree started his project while living in Oregon or Washington - he called it fire thorn.

That it is common there would explain his using it.

Here, fire thorn is a hedge - foundation plating - it is in the rose family and is plenty hard, but it only gets to stick diameter.