chris watton

Thank you for your thoughts. I hear what you're saying and I agree! However, I need to get some kits out first. My first priority must be to develop the kits, this is where all of my investment money is going. Once I have a few out, I can then 'fine tune' each kit to include various packages. Right now, let me tell you, it is taking up all of my time just developing the base kit and getting all of the various supplies together. I know some say that if they were developing kits they would include all the bells and whistles from the off, but again, I haven't go an infinite amount of money to spend. For example, I am about to put in an order for various thicknesses of rigging thread that is well over £500, and this is just one small aspect of the kits! I am also waiting for new wood strip samples to arrive. I am waiting for costings for the laser cutting and photo etching, there may well be room to sell some of these separately, but I haven't had time to think about anything other than the kit as a whole. I have almost completed the prototype model, it is mast and bowsprit/yards and is rigged, just waiting for the cast cannon barrels and anchors now. Hell, I haven't even had time to think about a website yet! This little model has been one hell of a learning curve..

...But let's not lose sight of the fact that I am doing a kit that will sell for under £200, not £2000.....

Cheers guys, and sorry for the late reply, have been very busy, and not spending as much time on Alert as I would like. But I cannot do a lot more to the prototype model until I receive the castings for the cannon, winch and anchors. I have built up the mast and yards, but cannot step the mast yet. I have done all cleats for the masts and yards in PE, so you can drill and glue and pin them into position - plus they will all be the exact same shape. As the yards are almost always painted black, the brass colour isn't an issue. I also realised I need to get rigging thread supplies sorted.. Just for a laugh, I have attached a size comparison of Alert and Lady Nelson (both same scale). Alert is bigger than I thought it was, compared to the LN...

Thanks Chuck, very interesting, and very nice. At the moment, I will see how I get on using my Italian colleague, who seems to be able to get the wood sheets and laser cutting done at a good cost right now, much cheaper than anyone here in the UK! As I am working full time right now, and doing this in my (limited) spare time, I will stick with that arrangement - but I am sure this will change in the future, if things work out. It was you that convinced me to try doing this by myself - before that, I had no intention of ever developing another kit again. Now I look forward to the next development...

Yes, but I think it would be better to concentrate on spending my initial development money (which isn't infinite), on developing the kits. At least until I have a few out and are making money. Once that happens, I can then think about investing in extras. I have a couple of other avenues for wood sources to try first, before settling on the norm..

And here's the crux of the matter - do I stay with what I know, or risk spending upwards of £2k on thousands of strips of wood that is no better, or possibly worse quality that the standard wood I use? It is all very well buying a few lengths for a single kit, but I have to buy enough for around 50 kits. I am then stuck with this wood, and if it's not very good, people will complain that the quality of my kits is rubbish! Not only that, but if I order less, I still have to write what the wood is in the manual, which has to be printed, which again, will be many copies and cost a fair amount. If I then decide I cannot get that particular wood strip in a decent enough quality and have no choice but to change it, the parts list is wrong for however many manuals I have left. Can you now see why manufacturers stick with what they know? Having said that, I may just sell a dozen kits and that's it.... No point asking for samples, too, as wood is a natural product, and what I receive as samples may not be a true reflection of the 2000 strips (x 6 in differing widths) I intended to order. As a matter of interest, apart from colour variations, what were the edges of the strips like, and were the strips all cut with the grain, rather than against (like some strips of Tanganyika are)? I find that good edges are a must, if they are not, gaps in between the planking can be quite the eyesore.

Thank you guys, I have some prices from Frank Horschig. What would you guys think about cherry or pear for second planking, and boxwood for deck planking? This (deck planking) is fine for single decked vessels like the cutter or a brig/sloop, even perhaps a frigate, but I do intend to design the larger kits in the roughly the same style as my 64th scale Victory, which has multiple decks. That is a hell of a lot of expensive wood!

Thank you, looks interesting, I will have a better look later today (just back from work, bed time..). Wish they had an English language option - but if I can secure this wood, I will be happy.

I will have to look. This is a learning experience for me, all I know is that I want to use the same people for supply of parts, including master carvings if possible - plus I need to keep costs down if I want to sell the kits at reasonable prices. At the same time, I do not want to restrict myself to subjects that have no carvings, and know that having masters made will not be dirt cheap. Same applies as above, if I can get a reliable source of other woods in the sizes required, I most certainly will. At the moment, all of my investment money I have from selling my car must be spent as wisely as possible, and wood upgrade bundles is low on the list of money to spend. That may change, however, once I have a couple of kits out and can start to re-invest and look at better options. I cannot find any reliable supplier of 1x3, 1x4, 1x5, 1x1, 1x2mm and other size pear, cherry, beach, boxwood strip or sheets. If anyone could point me the right direction?

It is clear why walnut is so popular though, consistent quality, close grain and quite easy to bend. Very 'user friendly' I have mentioned before, I absolutely hated the look of the Pegasus prototype model, as it was done in walnut, and I had always envisaged using the warmer hues of Tanganyika. (In lieu of a better wood like cherry, which would be prohibitively expensive for a commercial kit). I don't mind it for decks (I think limewood would be OK, as in reality, the deck planking on the real thing was almost white, light grey even), but to give the hull and deck different tones when using the same wood strip for both, I apply a couple of coats of matt wood varnish to the hull, making the planking slightly darker, and just spray the decks using Army Painter matt anti shine varnish, along with the rest of the model.

I know all too well the varying quality of Tanganika, I know I need to ensure I get the best quality, like the type I used for the Bellona model. I find walnut a little too dark for a lot of hulls. It is fine for the 16th and 17th centuries, but a lighter hull looks a lot nicer when it's an 18th Century ship, more so when the upper worked are painted in blues, blacks or reds. But I may be the only one that thinks that.. And yes, the bow is higher than the stern when resting at waterline level, in 64th scale, around 4.5mm higher.

One thing I need to ask, is there anyone out there who can carve, either in tangible or digital form, the decoration shown in the attached pictures? I have started to learn more about digital sculpting, but I feel these require a little more than what I could do and, as I intend it to be the 'flagship' of the range, I want them to look pretty good...

She is 1:64 scale, making overall dimensions (including masts/spars): Length - 638mm Height - 524mm Width - 256mm Hull length (without bowsprit) is around 377mm I want to try and keep to 64th, no matter how large or small the subject

I have even done an optional full sail plan set

Thanks' guys! Ron, of course I shall mast and rig her. I just have to wait for the remaining castings to turn up (They have been 3-d printed and are now being cast in production moulds). These will be the 6 Pounder cannon barrels, the half-Pound swivel barrels, the octagonal drum winch (which I have used from a spare master for the prototype), anchors and little drum winch that fits in between the mast bitt posts. I can certainly make a start on turning the mast, bowsprit and yards, though.. B.E. - had a look at your cutter thread today, great work!

It has been a while, but I have been busy. I have almost completed the hull assembly for my version of Alert, I am now waiting for the castings to come back to me (cannon barrels, small winch drum, anchors etc.). I have made quite a few changes to the designs whilst building this. Apart from the deadeyes, all the fittings are bespoke, which means that for once, the drum winch doesn't look out of place (or out of period..). The belaying pins are quite small on this model (following Goodwin's AotS book Alert, so I did those in PE. I have tried to make it as detailed as I can, while still being quite easy to fit together. Am glad I chose Tanganika wood for the second planking (although would love cherry), as it gives the hull a 'warmer' look. I wanted to use this wood for the prototype of Pegasus, as I knew it would suite the overall look of the model much better, but unfortunately, someone else started the hull on that one.. Was apprehensive about putting these pics on here, as it's my first model I have done outside an external company, to eventually put on the market, and it's quite scary (buy also a little exciting..)

I know it doesn't look too exciting, especially when compared to what I have done (and am going to do), but this is the first plank laid on a model for almost a year, after convincing myself I never wanted to make another model again - much less starting my own range of kits! The stern for this was a bit of a challenge, as it's so lightly built - and lightly built mean very fragile parts, more so for beginners. So things had to be 'beefed' up a little more than usual. The keel is not flat on this cutter but has a curve throughout the length. I added a very narrow notch on the bottom edge of the aft keel, to stop it slipping down on its cradle. Oh, and this cutter is around 25% larger than Lady Nelson (It has 10 x 6 pounder carriage guns and 10 x half-pounder swivel guns, which were drawn in CAD and 3-D printed)

Thank you, Kevin. You're not too far away from us, too!

Very nice job you have done there.

LOL, Silly me, didn't notice the change in thread title! Have new camera background stuff arriving today, for pics of construction stages...

Will have a look into that. However, the first three kits have already been mapped out, and am pretty sure what the forth and fifth will be (have already started the drawings for the 24, 12 and 6 pounder barrels for the second kit, ready for 3-d printing). For now, I want to stay in the mid-18th Century era, as for me, this period strikes the best balance between beauty and functionality - no OTT decoration (or 'useless froth' and the seamen who would have to endure the splinters from them when in battle, called it), but just enough to be pleasing to the eye, and graceful curves of the top of the gunwales and wales themselves. One thing I realised, I will be able to keep all of the prototype models, as I have no need to send them away to Italy when complete! ETA - When I have some progress pics of the Alert model building, should I start a new thread, do you think?

Hello Chris, Yes, the sail plan is as the AOS book, 6 sails in all, with three being the square sails.

Hi, Thank you for all of the very kind comments, they are very much appreciated help me realise that perhaps I am not as mad as a hatter for doing this. Been a while, but I have been working away and trying to sort everything out that I need. I have just had the laser cut files and photo etch arrive for me to start building the prototype for the cutter Alert (64th scale) - I have attached a pic of the very first dry fitting of parts (about 5 minutes after receiving the parcel..) I originally turned the 6 pounder cannon and half pound swivel gun on the lath, for the masters. Then, I started researching further 3-d printing and better 3-d software packages. The cannon barrels are now 3-d printed (complete with motif). All other fittings which are usually 'off the shelf' types are also drawn in 3-d and then 3-d printed for the masters. I love this method, as it gives me complete control so that every fitting to each model can be bespoke, and match exactly what was on the real thing, rather than an approximation. Also, the octagonal drum winch was initially designed using many parts from both laser cut wood and photo etch, but was worried it would be a little too fiddly for some beginners, so I re-drawn the assembly as one piece and had it 3-d printed. I have drawn all hull, mast and rigging plans for Alert, including sail plans for those who with to rig her with sails. I am not yet skilled enough to draw figureheads and other decoration in 3-d CAD, so have to sub-contract that work out. I did sell my beloved car (last weekend, in fact), so I now have some money to invest in the development and release of the first few kits (I hope). I can say that the next model will be a lot more ambitious than Alert, being roughly the same size as something like Vanguard. As soon as kits are ready, they will be released. Cheers, Chris

Hi Jax, Yes, the sausage dogs are still here, all present and correct!

Thank you guys for the replies, all are very much appreciated (just got back from work..) OK, I plan to work on the Alert cutter first, followed by a mid-18th century brig, heavy frigate ( I have three frigates in mind altogether) and then a very nice looking 5th rate. That is as far as I can go at the moment. I have found a laser cutting company in the UK, and have plenty of viable options for the PE work. Will probably end up selling my car to invest further if the first model does OK. Not sure how to go about getting the 'off the shelf' fittings like blocks, rigging, ladders etc. yet... The models with gun ports will have the new way of incorporating the gun port frames into the hull, like Victory and Bellona - I was never 100% happy with the pre cut gun port patterns as you only have to get one side slightly off and nothing will line up properly, plus you then have to build up the inner edges to simulate the correct thickness of each port. I first did the pre-cut patterns for gun ports on the Cruiser 20 years ago! It will add cost to the kits, as there is a lot more laser cutting and a lot more parts involved, but at least I know that every kit will have their gun ports always in their correct positions. About the Chinese and copying stuff, not much I can do about that, except not sell anything to them! Hollowneck, I received your message, thank you, I will have a good read of that tomorrow (or later today), when I am less tired. Cheers, Chris