Bob Cleek

I have had terrible experience with both wood and plastic for Vallejo primer (falls off if you look at it funny) and Badger was mediocre at best. My black Vallejo primer has been relegated to making washes or just filling in unseen areas. So far, tamiya rattle can or just plain old primer/filler or enamel primer have worked the best. Both tamiya and primer/filler sand wonderfully.  Seems like the more odorous the primer, the better the adhesion so I have pretty much given up on acrylics for priming except for miniatures. 

I just placed my order for the Rope Rocket and the Swerving machine. Once they arrive, ill update with photos on the ropes i make!

OUCH! I'd have given him that in a hot minute if I'd known he'd take it. It was listed at a "buy it now" price. I didn't see any "or best offer" on it. Not that he hadn't spent money on some stuff I wouldn't ever have any use for. (Thank you, MicroMark and Model Expo!  ) and there really wasn't anything in there that I needed, but I sure could have kept everything I thought I might have a need for and made money selling off what I didn't. It's a sad thing that he collected everything he needed, and they bad health interrupted it all. 
 

The  seller gave it all away for only $500. 
Model Expo Kit - Syren US Brig is worth over $300 alone.
What a shame.

Another assist in arriving at a fair hull are using diagonals. (These are the angled 'waterlines', if you like.)

Hello Anaxamander49,
 
I have some experience in this field. I faired an 18th century ship of 46 meter scale 1:10 and 1:1, old school, with battens on a mould loft. Right now I am doing the same thing only for a 17th century ship, around 44 meter, scale 1:10 the way they did that in those days, mainly without a mould loft. It is my experience that the best way to get a grip on the shape of the hull is doing it by hand and if necessary, enter the ordinates in a computer program so you can generate pictures and generate a model in the computer. But the computer chooses the way you look at the object, comparable to a lens on a camera. A wide angle lens gives a different perspective compared to a tele lens. So the best way to fair a ship is doing it by hand. I use Rhino as the program with which I can generate polylines and render the construction pieces which works very well for me. Rhino is good and not very expensive. I used AutoCad too but this program is not good with polylines and ludicrously expensive.
 
Good luck with you work.

very pretty Rob. 

Making your own works, too. They probably won't be as nice as "store bought" ones, but the price is right. Everybody has a box full of old Allen wrenches and broken drill bit shanks.  See: how to make micro chisels - YouTube

I find surgical blades to hold an edge a bit better than Xacto blades but  I don't try to use them for everything because they are more prone to breakage than the Xacto blades as Greg mentions.   Blades, be it Xacto, Swann Morton or similar, a razor saw, and high quaility chisels and/or knives of various sizes and shapes can be combined to handle most anything needed in our hobby.   I would throw in a few Xacto or other after market saw blades such as a key hole saw blade for the tight little areas.
Allan   

I don't like any blades right out of the package. I use a sharpening stone to get the angle I want and then use a stropping block. When the edge is mirror shiny it's good to go for quite a while. I don't remember the last time I threw a blade out. I use the same treatment with chisels. 
 
A good piece of stropping leather is only $10-12 on Amazon. Most come with the stropping compound.

See: 
  
 
The forum search engine is your friend... sort of.  

The "spools" on these machines are standard home sewing machine bobbins. You can purchase them at sewing stores or online for very little money. They are reusable and you have to wind your thread on them yourself. This is easily done on any sewing machine, which will have a "bobbin winder" on it, or you can use a dedicated bobbin winder. I prefer the dedicated bobbin winder because I don't have to get out the sewing machine to wind bobbins. I believe it is important to use a bobbin winder not only because it is extremely tedious to wind thread on a bobbin by hand, but also because it is important to wind the thread on the bobbin with uniform tension. Bobbin winders have an adjustable tensioner which ensures uniform tension of the wound thread on the bobbin.
 
Review the rope-making information in the "discussions" section of the MSW forum regarding the best threads to use and the "receipes" for various sizes of scale rope. Discussions about Rope Making - Model Ship World™  Guttermann Mara polyester thread seems to be the favored material at present. Linen thread of suitable quality has become very difficult to source in recent times. 
 
The Simplicy Bobbin Winder is portable and runs on either AA batteries or plugs into a household outlet. (I'm uncertain if they make one that runs on the household line voltage in Spain. We have 120VAC here in the US. I'm sure there must be a European equivalent in any event. Bobbin winders are a common sewing accessory.)
 
US$22.00 from Amazon:  Amazon.com: Simplicity Sidewinder Portable Bobbin Winder, White

Hi Druxey, Thanks, I have come to basically the same conclusion. I am also guessing that this boat was built over forms with stringers then frames bent to the stingers and then planks to the frames and the stringers removed as the planking proceeded. funnily enough that was my first planned way to build this model.
 
Michael

You certainly won't go wrong with a Rope Rocket, I had the opportunity to buy my PL4 new at half price from a fellow who found he had no need for it. I'll mention in passing that somewhere I recall recently reading where Alexey Domanoff moved from Belarus to Poland. If so, his EU customers may find the cost of his products, considering shipping, taxes, and customs duties, if any, may have changed significantly. Similarly, shipping, taxes, and customs will likely increase the cost of Syren Rope Rockets to EU customers. I'm not sure exactly what the governments' "bite" will be for you in Spain, but it seems US modeling products are sometimes prohibitively expensive for EU modelers, if the discussions of the subject on this forum are any indication.
 
 
Check out Chuck's tutorial videos if you haven't already: 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
         

You certainly won't go wrong with a Rope Rocket, I had the opportunity to buy my PL4 new at half price from a fellow who found he had no need for it. I'll mention in passing that somewhere I recall recently reading where Alexey Domanoff moved from Belarus to Poland. If so, his EU customers may find the cost of his products, considering shipping, taxes, and customs duties, if any, may have changed significantly. Similarly, shipping, taxes, and customs will likely increase the cost of Syren Rope Rockets to EU customers. I'm not sure exactly what the governments' "bite" will be for you in Spain, but it seems US modeling products are sometimes prohibitively expensive for EU modelers, if the discussions of the subject on this forum are any indication.
 
 
Check out Chuck's tutorial videos if you haven't already: 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
         

You certainly won't go wrong with a Rope Rocket, I had the opportunity to buy my PL4 new at half price from a fellow who found he had no need for it. I'll mention in passing that somewhere I recall recently reading where Alexey Domanoff moved from Belarus to Poland. If so, his EU customers may find the cost of his products, considering shipping, taxes, and customs duties, if any, may have changed significantly. Similarly, shipping, taxes, and customs will likely increase the cost of Syren Rope Rockets to EU customers. I'm not sure exactly what the governments' "bite" will be for you in Spain, but it seems US modeling products are sometimes prohibitively expensive for EU modelers, if the discussions of the subject on this forum are any indication.
 
 
Check out Chuck's tutorial videos if you haven't already: 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
         

The tighter you wind the strands, the harder and stiffer they become - which means that the two pairs will slip past each other, with the final product looking like a three-stranded rope with a fourth strand running along a groove (diamond-shaped cross-section).
 
Perhaps you rope was soft enough so that the strands squeezed together ...
 
Making a ropewalk yourself and according to the dimensions you need is not really magic and certainly within the capabilities of anyone, who arrived at the stage, where he feels the need for proper rope ... the parts, such as gear wheels, bushings or ball-bearings, rods for axles etc.  are readily available on the Internet; the other materials one can get at any DIY store. Unless one needs to produce hundreds of metres of rope, I find single-use machines, such as those of Domanoff rather expensive for the use they will get. 

With the full disclosure disclaimer that I haven't done everything that can be done on my PL4, and have never used a Rope Rocket, but am familiar with similar rope makers...
 
Changing bobbins on the PL4 is no big deal. You just remove the wing nut on each bobbin and slip another bobbin on the spindle and replace the wing nut.  Bobbins cost a few cents and marked bobbins can hold various sizes of thread, eliminating the need to unload bobbins to change thread size. Making different sized rope is simply a matter of using different sized thread. If one wishes to vary size by adding threads to each strand, the multiple threads can be wound on the bobbins simultaneously, although I'm not sure why one would want to unless the properly sized thread were unavailable. (Multiple threads in strands runs the risk of yielding "square" rope.) If one wishes, laid rope can be laid up to produce thicker rope by simply loading it on the bobbins. (Bobbins load in seconds using a bobbin winder. The PL4 will make three or four strand rope of any size needed for modeling.
 
The Domanoff machines and the Syren Rope Rocket each have their strengths and weaknesses. At the end of the day, I suppose we all dance with the girl we brought. 
 
Domanoff pros:
 
Automatic operation requires less acquired manual dexterity to operate.
 
Relatively unlimited length of rope produced. Less chance of differences in appearance between batches due to variables in lay-up of same-sized strands.
 
Small footprint for operation.  Rope length not limited to linear space available.
 
Produces cored rope which is essential for correct four-strand rope and wire cored rope for shaping catenaries.
 
Equal thread tension is less of an issue if bobbins wound on tensioned bobbin winder.
 
Easy electronic adjustment knobs for operating speed, take-up spool speed and direction of lay. Exact characteristics of rope can be replicated by duplicating the operating settings on the rope maker.
 
Produces rope neatly wound on spool ready for convenient storage should one wish to do so.
 
Dominoff cons:
 
Higher in cost than Rope Rocket for top-of-the- line PL4. Other models are lower in cost and worth a hard look if money is a major consideration.
 
Cannot unlay thread and lay up in opposite direction while on the machine.
 
Multiplying strands in the lay up requires loading separate threads together on bobbins. (I've never tried this.) 
 
Rope Rocket pros:
 
Considerably less expensive than PL4.
 
Larger "user base" on MSW with more information on operation, etc.
 
Operator can reverse thread lay direction on the rope maker by twisting thread in opposite direction.
 
It's the "hare" to the PL4's "tortoise." Rope Rocket probably will probably lay up short lengths of rope faster than the PL4, but, production of greater amounts of set-up time for the Rope Rocket, given its limited length capacity, will probably leave it in the PL4's wake as the PL4 just keeps turning out rope until the amount of thread on the bobbins runs out. (This observation does not apply to Rope Rocket virtuosos like Chuck Passaro, Rope Rocket's designer, who uses it to produce prodigious amounts of the highest quality after-market rope available anywhere.) 
 
Rope Rocket cons:
 
Requires practice to achieve manual dexterity required to produce consistent excellent results. Tightness of twist and lay "by feel" dependent upon operator's skill and experience.
 
Individual thread tension setup is critical to resulting quality of rope produced.
 
Length of rope produced limited by linear space available to operate the rope maker.
 
Cannot produce cored rope. Un-cored four-strand rope is susceptible to "lay collapse." 
 
No question about it, each machine produces fine rope in the hands of a knowledgeable operator. I'd say, on balance, that it's six of one and half dozen of another. About the only thing that people seem to agree upon when it comes to rope making machines is that the Model Shipways one is junk.  
 
 
********************************************************************************************************************************
Re: cored rope, from Alexey Domanoff's instructions:
 
When do we need a central core? Let's take a look at pics:
 
This is 3-strand rope. You may see - everything is ok, all strands lay in their places. You may need central core (made from very thin wire) if you'd like to "form" rope as you like. Diameter of this core shouldn't be more than 0.155 * R.
 

 
This is 4-strand rope. You HAVE TO add central core, otherwise strands will try to be in "center" of the final rope.
 

 
 
 

With the full disclosure disclaimer that I haven't done everything that can be done on my PL4, and have never used a Rope Rocket, but am familiar with similar rope makers...
 
Changing bobbins on the PL4 is no big deal. You just remove the wing nut on each bobbin and slip another bobbin on the spindle and replace the wing nut.  Bobbins cost a few cents and marked bobbins can hold various sizes of thread, eliminating the need to unload bobbins to change thread size. Making different sized rope is simply a matter of using different sized thread. If one wishes to vary size by adding threads to each strand, the multiple threads can be wound on the bobbins simultaneously, although I'm not sure why one would want to unless the properly sized thread were unavailable. (Multiple threads in strands runs the risk of yielding "square" rope.) If one wishes, laid rope can be laid up to produce thicker rope by simply loading it on the bobbins. (Bobbins load in seconds using a bobbin winder. The PL4 will make three or four strand rope of any size needed for modeling.
 
The Domanoff machines and the Syren Rope Rocket each have their strengths and weaknesses. At the end of the day, I suppose we all dance with the girl we brought. 
 
Domanoff pros:
 
Automatic operation requires less acquired manual dexterity to operate.
 
Relatively unlimited length of rope produced. Less chance of differences in appearance between batches due to variables in lay-up of same-sized strands.
 
Small footprint for operation.  Rope length not limited to linear space available.
 
Produces cored rope which is essential for correct four-strand rope and wire cored rope for shaping catenaries.
 
Equal thread tension is less of an issue if bobbins wound on tensioned bobbin winder.
 
Easy electronic adjustment knobs for operating speed, take-up spool speed and direction of lay. Exact characteristics of rope can be replicated by duplicating the operating settings on the rope maker.
 
Produces rope neatly wound on spool ready for convenient storage should one wish to do so.
 
Dominoff cons:
 
Higher in cost than Rope Rocket for top-of-the- line PL4. Other models are lower in cost and worth a hard look if money is a major consideration.
 
Cannot unlay thread and lay up in opposite direction while on the machine.
 
Multiplying strands in the lay up requires loading separate threads together on bobbins. (I've never tried this.) 
 
Rope Rocket pros:
 
Considerably less expensive than PL4.
 
Larger "user base" on MSW with more information on operation, etc.
 
Operator can reverse thread lay direction on the rope maker by twisting thread in opposite direction.
 
It's the "hare" to the PL4's "tortoise." Rope Rocket probably will probably lay up short lengths of rope faster than the PL4, but, production of greater amounts of set-up time for the Rope Rocket, given its limited length capacity, will probably leave it in the PL4's wake as the PL4 just keeps turning out rope until the amount of thread on the bobbins runs out. (This observation does not apply to Rope Rocket virtuosos like Chuck Passaro, Rope Rocket's designer, who uses it to produce prodigious amounts of the highest quality after-market rope available anywhere.) 
 
Rope Rocket cons:
 
Requires practice to achieve manual dexterity required to produce consistent excellent results. Tightness of twist and lay "by feel" dependent upon operator's skill and experience.
 
Individual thread tension setup is critical to resulting quality of rope produced.
 
Length of rope produced limited by linear space available to operate the rope maker.
 
Cannot produce cored rope. Un-cored four-strand rope is susceptible to "lay collapse." 
 
No question about it, each machine produces fine rope in the hands of a knowledgeable operator. I'd say, on balance, that it's six of one and half dozen of another. About the only thing that people seem to agree upon when it comes to rope making machines is that the Model Shipways one is junk.  
 
 
********************************************************************************************************************************
Re: cored rope, from Alexey Domanoff's instructions:
 
When do we need a central core? Let's take a look at pics:
 
This is 3-strand rope. You may see - everything is ok, all strands lay in their places. You may need central core (made from very thin wire) if you'd like to "form" rope as you like. Diameter of this core shouldn't be more than 0.155 * R.
 

 
This is 4-strand rope. You HAVE TO add central core, otherwise strands will try to be in "center" of the final rope.
 

 
 
 

Making your own works, too. They probably won't be as nice as "store bought" ones, but the price is right. Everybody has a box full of old Allen wrenches and broken drill bit shanks.  See: how to make micro chisels - YouTube

Making your own works, too. They probably won't be as nice as "store bought" ones, but the price is right. Everybody has a box full of old Allen wrenches and broken drill bit shanks.  See: how to make micro chisels - YouTube

Given your stated purposes, the easiest, fastest, and least costly method would be manual drafting. The fairness of a hull is easily determined with a batten. However, if you are enamored with CAD, that's another matter entirely. There are many forumites who are thoroughly versed in CAD options who can steer you in that direction.

The "spools" on these machines are standard home sewing machine bobbins. You can purchase them at sewing stores or online for very little money. They are reusable and you have to wind your thread on them yourself. This is easily done on any sewing machine, which will have a "bobbin winder" on it, or you can use a dedicated bobbin winder. I prefer the dedicated bobbin winder because I don't have to get out the sewing machine to wind bobbins. I believe it is important to use a bobbin winder not only because it is extremely tedious to wind thread on a bobbin by hand, but also because it is important to wind the thread on the bobbin with uniform tension. Bobbin winders have an adjustable tensioner which ensures uniform tension of the wound thread on the bobbin.
 
Review the rope-making information in the "discussions" section of the MSW forum regarding the best threads to use and the "receipes" for various sizes of scale rope. Discussions about Rope Making - Model Ship World™  Guttermann Mara polyester thread seems to be the favored material at present. Linen thread of suitable quality has become very difficult to source in recent times. 
 
The Simplicy Bobbin Winder is portable and runs on either AA batteries or plugs into a household outlet. (I'm uncertain if they make one that runs on the household line voltage in Spain. We have 120VAC here in the US. I'm sure there must be a European equivalent in any event. Bobbin winders are a common sewing accessory.)
 
US$22.00 from Amazon:  Amazon.com: Simplicity Sidewinder Portable Bobbin Winder, White

The "spools" on these machines are standard home sewing machine bobbins. You can purchase them at sewing stores or online for very little money. They are reusable and you have to wind your thread on them yourself. This is easily done on any sewing machine, which will have a "bobbin winder" on it, or you can use a dedicated bobbin winder. I prefer the dedicated bobbin winder because I don't have to get out the sewing machine to wind bobbins. I believe it is important to use a bobbin winder not only because it is extremely tedious to wind thread on a bobbin by hand, but also because it is important to wind the thread on the bobbin with uniform tension. Bobbin winders have an adjustable tensioner which ensures uniform tension of the wound thread on the bobbin.
 
Review the rope-making information in the "discussions" section of the MSW forum regarding the best threads to use and the "receipes" for various sizes of scale rope. Discussions about Rope Making - Model Ship World™  Guttermann Mara polyester thread seems to be the favored material at present. Linen thread of suitable quality has become very difficult to source in recent times. 
 
The Simplicy Bobbin Winder is portable and runs on either AA batteries or plugs into a household outlet. (I'm uncertain if they make one that runs on the household line voltage in Spain. We have 120VAC here in the US. I'm sure there must be a European equivalent in any event. Bobbin winders are a common sewing accessory.)
 
US$22.00 from Amazon:  Amazon.com: Simplicity Sidewinder Portable Bobbin Winder, White

I realize this is probably more than most would ever want to know about painting stripes on models, but it's a subject that doesn't seem to have been addressed here lately and I type faster than a lot of people talk, so here it is.
 
Aside from the waterline on the X-Y axis, there aren't many straight lines on a seagoing vessel. That said, waterlines can be marked simply by mounting the hull on a flat surface in the "floating" attitude (sometimes there is considerable rake in the keel, particularly in small sailing vessels.) Then take a block of wood of suitable height with a pencil laid on top of it and just run the block around the hull using the pencil laying on the block to mark the waterline. Note that waterlines are not always of constant width. The eye sees the stripe as of a uniform thickness, but, as the stripe is generally on an inclined surface, its width on the hull has to account for that. When you line off a boot stripe with your block and pencil, you'll note that where the hull curves, the top and bottom edges of the stripe will not be parallel. For example, a boot stripe at the tuck of the stern can widen significantly. Another perspective issue is the shape of the hull overall. If a viewer is standing amidships and looking at the boot stripe, the boot stripe at the bow, and perhaps at the stern, will be farther from the viewer's eye than the stripe amidships because the bow, and perhaps the stern, narrow as the hull approaches its ends. For this reason, boot stripes often look better if they are laid out to gradually widen slightly as they approach the bow. This avoids the optical illusion that the boot stripe is narrowing as it runs towards the bow. These adjustments must be done "by eye" when masking the stripes.
 
As for painting, use a "fine line" masking tape to lay out the lines and paint between the masked areas. Don't use regular house painter's masking tape. The paint will likely run under the paint and make a mess. 3M's Fine Line Tape is a good brand. I believe Tamaya model paints also makes a fine line masking tape. Others have used automotive striping tape, but I've found it's often too thick and out of scale and color selections are limited. A bit of practice is advised before committing to tape and paint the model's hull. The learning curve is short and not steep, but you don't want to mess up the paint job on the model by making that your first try!
 
Fine line tape can be purchased at art supply stores: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40067079/  Buy the 1/4" wide tape and then use regular masking tape on top of that to mask a wider area, if need be.  The stuff is not cheap! Thinner is cheaper. About $30.00 a roll! A roll will probably last a lifetime of modeling, though. (Tamaya tape is less expensive, but I don't have any personal experience with it. I've read good reviews of it. Perhaps others can comment. 3M Fine Line is the industry standard for automotive and aircraft painters.) 
 
Be sure to store all masking tape, and especially fine line tape, in zip-lock plastic bags, which retard their drying out and significantly extend their shelf-life to practically forever.  Also, never ever lay a roll of any type of masking tape down on its side on your bench top. Always replace it in its zip-lock bag. Laying a roll of tape on its side will cause it to pick up dust and dirt on the side of the tape, which ruins it because the dust and dirt adhering to the edge of the tape will make it impossible to yield a razor sharp line and will permit  paint to seep beneath the edge of the tape.
 
There are other techniques for painting stripes, including using special pin-striping brushes freehand with One Shot sign paint, etc., etc., but the use of fine line tape is the only fool-proof method I know. Even among the pros, it's a rare "fist" who can do it well freehand with a brush.