uss frolick

Where is the modern, definitive, written study of the 1805 HMS Victory configuration?

Wow ...
 
 

If not needed on deck, the Marines still had some other helping tasks: Manning the guns and the capstan 🙂
 

XXXDAn
 

Virginia vs. Cumberland, March 8, 1862. An hour well spent:
 
 

Couple of plan shots while I work on the middle and upper apron.
 
First up I am gradually refining my technique when creating build templates. My new structure is to extend the edges of joints with blue lines (the joints themselves being a burnt red), these lines are then used as a cut check when milling so I can start on the extension line and move inwards. I am also adding a lot of opposing green lines (I may even double these up in future). I use these as table saw cut lines that allow me place the wood at these points and know that (hopefully..) the actual cut line being milled will then be horizontal.

Example for middle apron  - it looks complex (which is why I simplified the colours) but does help when cutting.
 

 
The next plan (just done now) is a combined view of the forward keel, apron stem and some other. I plan to use this to ensure the eventual combined apron and stem is accurate.

Will this be in purchasable book form?

Oh, to go back in time. Excerpt rom Wiki:
 
"Hamburg Atlantic Line (German: Hamburg Atlantik Linie) was an ocean liner and cruise ship operating company established in Hamburg, West Germany in 1958 by Axel Bitsch Christensen and Vernicos Eugenides, the latter being the adopted son of Home Lines' founder Eugen Eugenides.  In 1966, the company changed its name to German Atlantic Line (German: Deutsche Atlantik Linie). Liner services were abandoned in 1969, after which the company's ships concentrated solely on cruising. Due to the 1973 oil crisis, German Atlantic Line closed down in December 1973. 
In 1991 Dirk Moldenhauer, the captain of the last German Atlantic Line ship in service, acquired the rights to the Hamburg/German Atlantic Line logo and established Hanseatic Tours which used the same livery and ship names as the German Atlantic Line. In 1997 Hapag-Lloyd acquired Hanseatic Tours, and their operations were merged to those of Hapag-Lloyd Cruises. The last Hanseatic Tours vessel, MS Hanseatic retained the Hanseatic Tours livery in Hapag-Lloyd service until 2011.
 
History
 
1958–1966: Hamburg Atlantic Line
 
Hamburg Atlantic Line was the brainchild of Axel Bitsch Christensen, a Dane who had been living in Hamburg since 1952, who wanted to establish a new company to offer liner service from West Germany to New York. Christensen convinced his friend Vernicos Eugenides, the chairman of Home Lines,  to invest 6 million DM in the new company, making it possible for Christensen to raise enough loan to purchase a ship.  Hamburg Atlantic Line acquired their first ship in January 1958 when they purchased the 1930-built RMS Empress of Scotland from Canadian Pacific Steamships. After substantial rebuilding, the ship re-emerged as the first TS Hanseatic in June 1958, and was placed in service connecting Cuxhaven, Germany to New York, United States via Le Havre (France), Southampton (United Kingdom) and Cobh (Ireland). During the winter season she was also used for cruising out of New York to the Caribbean.  Coinciding with Hamburg Atlantic beginning transatlantic service, Home Lines ceased transatlantic service so that the two companies in which Vernicos Eugenides had large investments would not compete with each other. After a good year in the transatlantic service in 1959, passenger numbers begun to drop due to competition from air traffic. By 1965 the Hanseatic made only eight round crossings, spending the rest of the year cruising.  Already in 1962 Axel Bitsch Christensen had begun planning for a new ship to replace the Hanseatic. He had trouble securing a loan to fund the new building, but was not discouraged and drew up an unusual plan for gathering funds. A new company, German Atlantic Line, was established; shares of the new company were offered to past Hamburg Atlantic passengers, and enough funds for the new ships were gathered using this method.   However, before an order could be placed for the new ship, the Hanseatic caught fire on 6 September 1966 while in New York harbour. There were no casualties, but after the hulk of the ship was towed back to Germany, she was deemed too expensive to repair and was sent to scrappers.  An order for the new TS Hamburg was placed with Deutsche Werft during the following month, but the company needed another ship to operate until the new ship would be completed. "
 
In 1966, they would become the German Atlantic Line, and cease operations completely in 1973.
 
 

Oh, to go back in time. Excerpt rom Wiki:
 
"Hamburg Atlantic Line (German: Hamburg Atlantik Linie) was an ocean liner and cruise ship operating company established in Hamburg, West Germany in 1958 by Axel Bitsch Christensen and Vernicos Eugenides, the latter being the adopted son of Home Lines' founder Eugen Eugenides.  In 1966, the company changed its name to German Atlantic Line (German: Deutsche Atlantik Linie). Liner services were abandoned in 1969, after which the company's ships concentrated solely on cruising. Due to the 1973 oil crisis, German Atlantic Line closed down in December 1973. 
In 1991 Dirk Moldenhauer, the captain of the last German Atlantic Line ship in service, acquired the rights to the Hamburg/German Atlantic Line logo and established Hanseatic Tours which used the same livery and ship names as the German Atlantic Line. In 1997 Hapag-Lloyd acquired Hanseatic Tours, and their operations were merged to those of Hapag-Lloyd Cruises. The last Hanseatic Tours vessel, MS Hanseatic retained the Hanseatic Tours livery in Hapag-Lloyd service until 2011.
 
History
 
1958–1966: Hamburg Atlantic Line
 
Hamburg Atlantic Line was the brainchild of Axel Bitsch Christensen, a Dane who had been living in Hamburg since 1952, who wanted to establish a new company to offer liner service from West Germany to New York. Christensen convinced his friend Vernicos Eugenides, the chairman of Home Lines,  to invest 6 million DM in the new company, making it possible for Christensen to raise enough loan to purchase a ship.  Hamburg Atlantic Line acquired their first ship in January 1958 when they purchased the 1930-built RMS Empress of Scotland from Canadian Pacific Steamships. After substantial rebuilding, the ship re-emerged as the first TS Hanseatic in June 1958, and was placed in service connecting Cuxhaven, Germany to New York, United States via Le Havre (France), Southampton (United Kingdom) and Cobh (Ireland). During the winter season she was also used for cruising out of New York to the Caribbean.  Coinciding with Hamburg Atlantic beginning transatlantic service, Home Lines ceased transatlantic service so that the two companies in which Vernicos Eugenides had large investments would not compete with each other. After a good year in the transatlantic service in 1959, passenger numbers begun to drop due to competition from air traffic. By 1965 the Hanseatic made only eight round crossings, spending the rest of the year cruising.  Already in 1962 Axel Bitsch Christensen had begun planning for a new ship to replace the Hanseatic. He had trouble securing a loan to fund the new building, but was not discouraged and drew up an unusual plan for gathering funds. A new company, German Atlantic Line, was established; shares of the new company were offered to past Hamburg Atlantic passengers, and enough funds for the new ships were gathered using this method.   However, before an order could be placed for the new ship, the Hanseatic caught fire on 6 September 1966 while in New York harbour. There were no casualties, but after the hulk of the ship was towed back to Germany, she was deemed too expensive to repair and was sent to scrappers.  An order for the new TS Hamburg was placed with Deutsche Werft during the following month, but the company needed another ship to operate until the new ship would be completed. "
 
In 1966, they would become the German Atlantic Line, and cease operations completely in 1973.
 
 

You mean something like the attached (sample only)?
 
c.400 pages, several hundred images, tables, etc.  9 years to research taking in the NMRN, TNA, RMG / NMM, British Library, etc. Call it Pt.1 of my Victory build log - Pt. 2 will be the actual build.
 
I guess finished by Xmas, presently on with a late change, just looking at Victory’s bow shape which seems to have changed after 1788, trying to discern whether it was in 1803 and the pre-Trafalgar refit or whether it was the 1814 / 16 refit and I’m seeing remnants of the Round Bow, awaiting further hi-res plans from NMM.
 
Gary
 
 
 
 

Nelsons Victory Revealed Proof Sample.pdf

Where is the modern, definitive, written study of the 1805 HMS Victory configuration?

Tom,
 
The fundamental choice in this debate is to what time period are you modelling your cross section.  Longridge and McKay both show the ship in her post 1920’s restoration, this is not the same as her Trafalgar appearance, nor her 18th Century guise, or her 1816 - 1922 configuration.  
 
For post 1928 go with Longridge & McKay.
For 1816 - 1922 go with the Boyne, as Allan sets out.
For 1788 through to 1814, including Trafalgar, forget iron knees and go with Riders.
 
Gary

small steps:

Attached is an Argentine archaeological paper on HMS Swift, a 14-gun sloop-of-war. She was launched in 1763 and went down off Patagonia in 1770. 
 
The paper is dated 2006, so the archaeology findings may not be the latest, but the paper contains some interesting information.
Archaeological Research on HMS Swift.pdf
 
 
 
 

I once learnt how to plank from Jim Roberts' brochure "Planking the Built-up Ship Model".

Was the frigate named after Cleopatra, the most famous of Egyptian women, or the Mediterranean trade wind of the same name?
 
Here's proper music to play while you construct her: "L'Eyptienne", by Debussy – Rameau ...
 
 

Was the frigate named after Cleopatra, the most famous of Egyptian women, or the Mediterranean trade wind of the same name?
 
Here's proper music to play while you construct her: "L'Eyptienne", by Debussy – Rameau ...
 
 

Was the frigate named after Cleopatra, the most famous of Egyptian women, or the Mediterranean trade wind of the same name?
 
Here's proper music to play while you construct her: "L'Eyptienne", by Debussy – Rameau ...
 
 

Was the frigate named after Cleopatra, the most famous of Egyptian women, or the Mediterranean trade wind of the same name?
 
Here's proper music to play while you construct her: "L'Eyptienne", by Debussy – Rameau ...
 
 

Was the frigate named after Cleopatra, the most famous of Egyptian women, or the Mediterranean trade wind of the same name?
 
Here's proper music to play while you construct her: "L'Eyptienne", by Debussy – Rameau ...
 
 

Thanks for posting - a most interesting discussion. I tend to agree with her that CUMBERLAND, along with other U.S. ships thru our history, has never gotten the recognition they deserve. 

Virginia vs. Cumberland, March 8, 1862. An hour well spent:
 
 

How about  "A Port Wine Sea", by Susan Wenger, a parody of the Patrick O'Brien novels. (Assuming that you read the latter.)
 
From Amazon:
 
"The Port-Wine Sea is a rousing parody of the best historical fiction ever written. It is a story about a British naval captain during the Napoleonic War, and his friend, a naval physician/espionage agent. They set sail once again aboard "H.M.S. Aghast" during the War of 1812 to demonstrate to the upstart Colonies the errors of their ways. The doctor/spy tries to establish liaison with the Creek Indians to create a diversion to the main British assault. Meanwhile the noble Captain is diverted by a teenaged Maryland vixen. Along the way, they encounter a skittish horse, a demure skunk, a whooping crane, and an escaped colony of termites aboard the ship."
 
https://www.amazon.com/Port-Wine-Sea-Parody-Susan-Wenger/dp/1893162001/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3I5WGC02MQKQS&keywords=a+port+wine+sea&qid=1692539646&sprefix=a+port+wine+sea%2Caps%2C123&sr=8-1
 
Only 1 left in stock - order soon!
 
 
 
 

How about  "A Port Wine Sea", by Susan Wenger, a parody of the Patrick O'Brien novels. (Assuming that you read the latter.)
 
From Amazon:
 
"The Port-Wine Sea is a rousing parody of the best historical fiction ever written. It is a story about a British naval captain during the Napoleonic War, and his friend, a naval physician/espionage agent. They set sail once again aboard "H.M.S. Aghast" during the War of 1812 to demonstrate to the upstart Colonies the errors of their ways. The doctor/spy tries to establish liaison with the Creek Indians to create a diversion to the main British assault. Meanwhile the noble Captain is diverted by a teenaged Maryland vixen. Along the way, they encounter a skittish horse, a demure skunk, a whooping crane, and an escaped colony of termites aboard the ship."
 
https://www.amazon.com/Port-Wine-Sea-Parody-Susan-Wenger/dp/1893162001/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3I5WGC02MQKQS&keywords=a+port+wine+sea&qid=1692539646&sprefix=a+port+wine+sea%2Caps%2C123&sr=8-1
 
Only 1 left in stock - order soon!
 
 
 
 

Chipping and a neutral wash. 

I recall reading the Admiralty Court of Enquiry for the loss of HMS Levant, 20, in 1815 when she and HMS Cyane fought the USS Constitution, that the crew was unable to shift their two long nine pounders to the stern chase position, because the sloop was unable to steer with them in place. This was after the Cyane had surrendered, and the shattered Levant was trying to escape.