robdurant

Finally, after too much time spent on "life things" and some experimentation, I'm making progress.   Ship's wheel, binnacle are finished and dummy masts in place (not clued) but still need some paint.
 
I painted the wheel to look like wood mostly.   I didn't like the color scheme in the instructions.  I then wasted a lot of time trying figure out how to glaze the binnacle.  Tried numerous ways but even though the glazing looked good to my eye, it prevented the panels sitting flush with each other and "shelving".
 
My next step is to back up and get the catheads installed.   I had to wait on some new blades as I wanted something a bit sharper and longer lasting than the X-acto blades I was using.   So... on-wards....
 

Aah - thank you, my better half has ordered this for my birthday, so I'm looking forward to having a good look through and getting some inspiration. To return to your earlier comments, I've pondered them, and I think I'm looking to get past plank on bulkhead, but with simplified frames... so probably using the stations rather than re-lofting each frame, and with a simplified structure without cant frames at the bow and stern. 
 
I've had another crack at the transom using an angled frame (16 degrees from perpendicular) aft of station 25 - this goes out to the wale. I've re-drafted the transoms and hopefully now it is something more workable... Some pictures... It's not quite perfect yet (and I haven't drafted the inside flow of the transom pieces), but I feel like I'm making progress. It's certainly helpful to be able to make multiple designs and try them all out.

 

 

Thanks again for all your help
 
Rob

Aah - thank you, my better half has ordered this for my birthday, so I'm looking forward to having a good look through and getting some inspiration. To return to your earlier comments, I've pondered them, and I think I'm looking to get past plank on bulkhead, but with simplified frames... so probably using the stations rather than re-lofting each frame, and with a simplified structure without cant frames at the bow and stern. 
 
I've had another crack at the transom using an angled frame (16 degrees from perpendicular) aft of station 25 - this goes out to the wale. I've re-drafted the transoms and hopefully now it is something more workable... Some pictures... It's not quite perfect yet (and I haven't drafted the inside flow of the transom pieces), but I feel like I'm making progress. It's certainly helpful to be able to make multiple designs and try them all out.

 

 

Thanks again for all your help
 
Rob

Aah - thank you, my better half has ordered this for my birthday, so I'm looking forward to having a good look through and getting some inspiration. To return to your earlier comments, I've pondered them, and I think I'm looking to get past plank on bulkhead, but with simplified frames... so probably using the stations rather than re-lofting each frame, and with a simplified structure without cant frames at the bow and stern. 
 
I've had another crack at the transom using an angled frame (16 degrees from perpendicular) aft of station 25 - this goes out to the wale. I've re-drafted the transoms and hopefully now it is something more workable... Some pictures... It's not quite perfect yet (and I haven't drafted the inside flow of the transom pieces), but I feel like I'm making progress. It's certainly helpful to be able to make multiple designs and try them all out.

 

 

Thanks again for all your help
 
Rob

Hi all,
 
I've often been very taken by the Joseph Marshall paintings, and in particular by the paintings of the admiralty model of Portland from the bow and stern quarters. (Here in low-res courtesy of Wikimedia Commons)
 

 
That led me to explore the National Maritime Museum archives, and I came across the plans for HMS Bristol, her sister ship. That accompanied, with my stumbling upon RIf Winfield's book The 5o Gun Ship, which includes plans for another Portland class ship, Leopard meant I was well and truly smitten. 
 
A good number of plans survive for Bristol on the National Maritime Museum, and so, I figured (probably foolishly) that it would be wonderful to try and create as closely as possible the admiralty model shown in Joseph Marshall's paintings of Portland, but as her sister-ship Bristol. Having completed a model of HMS Diana, the Artois class frigate (as her sister ship Ethalion), and having made my way through a fair bit of Barque Stefano, both of which I have modified a fair bit as I've gone, I'm reasonably confident I'm up to the task of doing this as POB, but the big question is, how to recreate the frames... I don't think I'm up to fully framed yet - that will probably be the model after, so some POB / Joseph Marshall-painting-style-POF mash-up is the aim, with frames showing below the wales, and planked bulkheads above... As I'm designing it, I'm reasonably confident I can make this work, but there'll be plenty of planning before I make any sawdust.
 
So. Right now, I have the following plan as a high res printout - this low-res version is from wikicommons (I couldn't stretch to the £100 license to buy a digital copy) and lots of low-res images. I'll add to the collection as I go. This is enough to begin planning internal structure.
 

The full size plan is in 1:48, and it's stunning! From that tiny snapshot of history where the Admiralty had plans drawn up on completion of a ship, as well as at the beginning of construction - hence the decorations are all drawn out.
 
So. This post is as much as anything a pin in the map - a starting point, and a statement of intent. If you'd like to join me for the journey you're extremely welcome. It'll be slow going, I'm sure, but it should be fun, and if it turns out anything like the picture in my head, it'll be really wonderful in the end  

Aah - thank you, my better half has ordered this for my birthday, so I'm looking forward to having a good look through and getting some inspiration. To return to your earlier comments, I've pondered them, and I think I'm looking to get past plank on bulkhead, but with simplified frames... so probably using the stations rather than re-lofting each frame, and with a simplified structure without cant frames at the bow and stern. 
 
I've had another crack at the transom using an angled frame (16 degrees from perpendicular) aft of station 25 - this goes out to the wale. I've re-drafted the transoms and hopefully now it is something more workable... Some pictures... It's not quite perfect yet (and I haven't drafted the inside flow of the transom pieces), but I feel like I'm making progress. It's certainly helpful to be able to make multiple designs and try them all out.

 

 

Thanks again for all your help
 
Rob

Aah - thank you, my better half has ordered this for my birthday, so I'm looking forward to having a good look through and getting some inspiration. To return to your earlier comments, I've pondered them, and I think I'm looking to get past plank on bulkhead, but with simplified frames... so probably using the stations rather than re-lofting each frame, and with a simplified structure without cant frames at the bow and stern. 
 
I've had another crack at the transom using an angled frame (16 degrees from perpendicular) aft of station 25 - this goes out to the wale. I've re-drafted the transoms and hopefully now it is something more workable... Some pictures... It's not quite perfect yet (and I haven't drafted the inside flow of the transom pieces), but I feel like I'm making progress. It's certainly helpful to be able to make multiple designs and try them all out.

 

 

Thanks again for all your help
 
Rob

Aah - thank you, my better half has ordered this for my birthday, so I'm looking forward to having a good look through and getting some inspiration. To return to your earlier comments, I've pondered them, and I think I'm looking to get past plank on bulkhead, but with simplified frames... so probably using the stations rather than re-lofting each frame, and with a simplified structure without cant frames at the bow and stern. 
 
I've had another crack at the transom using an angled frame (16 degrees from perpendicular) aft of station 25 - this goes out to the wale. I've re-drafted the transoms and hopefully now it is something more workable... Some pictures... It's not quite perfect yet (and I haven't drafted the inside flow of the transom pieces), but I feel like I'm making progress. It's certainly helpful to be able to make multiple designs and try them all out.

 

 

Thanks again for all your help
 
Rob

Aah - thank you, my better half has ordered this for my birthday, so I'm looking forward to having a good look through and getting some inspiration. To return to your earlier comments, I've pondered them, and I think I'm looking to get past plank on bulkhead, but with simplified frames... so probably using the stations rather than re-lofting each frame, and with a simplified structure without cant frames at the bow and stern. 
 
I've had another crack at the transom using an angled frame (16 degrees from perpendicular) aft of station 25 - this goes out to the wale. I've re-drafted the transoms and hopefully now it is something more workable... Some pictures... It's not quite perfect yet (and I haven't drafted the inside flow of the transom pieces), but I feel like I'm making progress. It's certainly helpful to be able to make multiple designs and try them all out.

 

 

Thanks again for all your help
 
Rob

Aah - thank you, my better half has ordered this for my birthday, so I'm looking forward to having a good look through and getting some inspiration. To return to your earlier comments, I've pondered them, and I think I'm looking to get past plank on bulkhead, but with simplified frames... so probably using the stations rather than re-lofting each frame, and with a simplified structure without cant frames at the bow and stern. 
 
I've had another crack at the transom using an angled frame (16 degrees from perpendicular) aft of station 25 - this goes out to the wale. I've re-drafted the transoms and hopefully now it is something more workable... Some pictures... It's not quite perfect yet (and I haven't drafted the inside flow of the transom pieces), but I feel like I'm making progress. It's certainly helpful to be able to make multiple designs and try them all out.

 

 

Thanks again for all your help
 
Rob

Progress on the 1:128 mockup from my CAD drawings. I've finished cutting out the stations and added the quarterdeck, fo'csle and poop. It's been a helpful exercise in seeing the lines of the vessel, any conflicts in terms of masts / deck cutouts / etc... Now, it's helping me think through how the stern will be constructed. I'm pleased to say that none of the frames look particularly out, except for one (frame 5) where I suspect I probably cut over the line a little... But now I can go back and take a look at this before I move onto the 1:64 scale version!
 





 

So those numbers above have been refined again by cross referencing back and forwards from the half breadth and station plans... I got to the stage where I wanted to see how things fitted together, and particularly the deck levels and openings on the decks, and where the masts land compared to the stations, etc... 
 
So here is a 1:192 styrene half hull in construction. It's only got half its stations in so far, but it's starting to give an idea of how the whole might look.
 

 

 

Thank you Jaager for.this response, I shall take my time to read through this and digest it. Can I take it that Franklin is a book I should be looking at?
 
Mine too, Jason, but Freecad is just that... open source and free of cost to the end user.
 
Thank you for your kind words. It is very absorbing, and a nice change from sewing bolt ropes onto sails

I've spent a little time working on the stern of Bristol to see how it all shapes up... here's my progress. The stern structure was drawn out from the plans, taking care to note how the balcony and accompanying cabin walls fitted, and then the transom was stretched vertically by a factor of 1/Cos(14.2) to make it fit when it was at an angle.
 
Here's the stretched outline... 
 

 
And the part cut out in two parts and glued back to back - the recessed cornice over the cutout was removed on the outer layer, creating a 3d effect - this will be bevelled as well on the final 1:64 model, but as a proof of concept it works.  It's also confirmed that the upper deck (third down in the photo below) comes too far back, and will interfere with the stern upper counter as it is.

 
Happy building to you all
 
Rob
 
 

NAVY BOARD  SHIP MODELS 1650-1750                                
FRANKLIN,JOHN                                                    
US NAVAL INSTITUTE PRESS                     
ANNAPOLIS, MD            
1989
 
The primary focus is on ship models that are 100 years earlier than Bristol. 
But they are at the apex of ship modelers art.  
Probably not much direct help, but the models featured  do show alternatives to an exact replication of every minor construction detail of a ship's innards.

I've spent a little time working on the stern of Bristol to see how it all shapes up... here's my progress. The stern structure was drawn out from the plans, taking care to note how the balcony and accompanying cabin walls fitted, and then the transom was stretched vertically by a factor of 1/Cos(14.2) to make it fit when it was at an angle.
 
Here's the stretched outline... 
 

 
And the part cut out in two parts and glued back to back - the recessed cornice over the cutout was removed on the outer layer, creating a 3d effect - this will be bevelled as well on the final 1:64 model, but as a proof of concept it works.  It's also confirmed that the upper deck (third down in the photo below) comes too far back, and will interfere with the stern upper counter as it is.

 
Happy building to you all
 
Rob
 
 

Thank you Jaager for.this response, I shall take my time to read through this and digest it. Can I take it that Franklin is a book I should be looking at?
 
Mine too, Jason, but Freecad is just that... open source and free of cost to the end user.
 
Thank you for your kind words. It is very absorbing, and a nice change from sewing bolt ropes onto sails

I've spent a little time working on the stern of Bristol to see how it all shapes up... here's my progress. The stern structure was drawn out from the plans, taking care to note how the balcony and accompanying cabin walls fitted, and then the transom was stretched vertically by a factor of 1/Cos(14.2) to make it fit when it was at an angle.
 
Here's the stretched outline... 
 

 
And the part cut out in two parts and glued back to back - the recessed cornice over the cutout was removed on the outer layer, creating a 3d effect - this will be bevelled as well on the final 1:64 model, but as a proof of concept it works.  It's also confirmed that the upper deck (third down in the photo below) comes too far back, and will interfere with the stern upper counter as it is.

 
Happy building to you all
 
Rob
 
 

I've spent a little time working on the stern of Bristol to see how it all shapes up... here's my progress. The stern structure was drawn out from the plans, taking care to note how the balcony and accompanying cabin walls fitted, and then the transom was stretched vertically by a factor of 1/Cos(14.2) to make it fit when it was at an angle.
 
Here's the stretched outline... 
 

 
And the part cut out in two parts and glued back to back - the recessed cornice over the cutout was removed on the outer layer, creating a 3d effect - this will be bevelled as well on the final 1:64 model, but as a proof of concept it works.  It's also confirmed that the upper deck (third down in the photo below) comes too far back, and will interfere with the stern upper counter as it is.

 
Happy building to you all
 
Rob
 
 

Fascinating project Rob, Would love to try my hand at this, suspect its rather addicting and very educational, but the cost of the 3D software is a little beyond my limit...one day!

These will be random and mostly unrelated thoughts:
 
Bristol was at the end of the 18th century style warships.  the older modelers conventions still have credibility. 
 
Starting about 1780 there was an inflection point in warship design.  There was a long period (1780 - 1815 / 35 years) of near constant warfare with severe stress on both the treasury and resources.  There were major improvements in artillery.  Hull forms began their move from art to efficiency.  The older conventions look out of place.
 
My point?  If you look at Franklin, you will see that many or most of those 17th century models used stylized construction - the ends did not mimic actual prototype timbering.  Corners were cut.
During the 18th century - the old Navy Board framing dropped - but for some if not most of the models, some form of stylized framing was used.  It even extended to carved solid - either painted or full planked.  Some were solid and painted with faux frames. 
 
The first fork is:  for the hull below the wale...   do you do a Bellona style exact engineering class demo model?  or do you opt for a more artful model using one of several modelers conventions?
 
The stern of Centurion -  the vertical structural timbers between the windows had a different and increasing angle depending on their file.  The windows had mullions that were different depending on how far out from the centerline they were.  They were the same on every deck for the file they were in.
 
Your transoms below the wing transom are not tenable.  As a half hull they look OK - but as a P&S together whole, they describe too much of an arch.   There was a fashion timber that was a cant. 
I do not care to futz with a cant frame, so I added a whole bend farther aft to fill where the fashion timber would be.   I see the fashion frame as starting at the deadwood touching your farthest aft bend and angling to the outer end of the wing transom.  My last bend is at the outer point of the wing transom.
 
The inflection transom below the wing transom is at the level of the main gun deck beams.  I made mine wider and carved a land for the deck planks - a wide landing.
 

I've spent a little time working on the stern of Bristol to see how it all shapes up... here's my progress. The stern structure was drawn out from the plans, taking care to note how the balcony and accompanying cabin walls fitted, and then the transom was stretched vertically by a factor of 1/Cos(14.2) to make it fit when it was at an angle.
 
Here's the stretched outline... 
 

 
And the part cut out in two parts and glued back to back - the recessed cornice over the cutout was removed on the outer layer, creating a 3d effect - this will be bevelled as well on the final 1:64 model, but as a proof of concept it works.  It's also confirmed that the upper deck (third down in the photo below) comes too far back, and will interfere with the stern upper counter as it is.

 
Happy building to you all
 
Rob
 
 

Progress on the 1:128 mockup from my CAD drawings. I've finished cutting out the stations and added the quarterdeck, fo'csle and poop. It's been a helpful exercise in seeing the lines of the vessel, any conflicts in terms of masts / deck cutouts / etc... Now, it's helping me think through how the stern will be constructed. I'm pleased to say that none of the frames look particularly out, except for one (frame 5) where I suspect I probably cut over the line a little... But now I can go back and take a look at this before I move onto the 1:64 scale version!
 





 

So those numbers above have been refined again by cross referencing back and forwards from the half breadth and station plans... I got to the stage where I wanted to see how things fitted together, and particularly the deck levels and openings on the decks, and where the masts land compared to the stations, etc... 
 
So here is a 1:192 styrene half hull in construction. It's only got half its stations in so far, but it's starting to give an idea of how the whole might look.
 

 

 

I couldn't resist seeing the model so far jump off the drawing board into real life, so I've started to make a basic paper half-hull mockup at 1:96 scale to get a sense of the lines. At the moment there's no lateral support for the frames, so they're all over the place, but an interesting exercise nonetheless, and adding the poop / quarterdeck / upper gun deck will help matters no end. The deck locations are marked with solid lines and waterlines are marked with dashed lines. This half-hull should help me work out how to go about realising the internal structure.
 
Progress so far...