Cutty Sark by Izzy Madd - Airfix - PLASTIC - Just trying to get it to go together

[Izzy Madd]

Good evening my fellow modelers of all things nautical.

 

I've come up against several problems tonight. First of all as its Saturday night. Does anyone know if it's possible to be prosecuted for being intoxicated and in charge of a pair of tweezers. Hic

 

I've had one or two tots

 

Secondly. Can boats mate? Only I had one model of the Cutty Sark yesterday now I've got two but the second is only six inches high

They are worse than rabbits. I must admit that the second is utterly SOOB not even a drop of paint. For now at least. Mind you it's only young yet I'll wait till it grows up a bit. As its only 1/350 scale.

 

But apart from the fact that the parts are more lively than me. One of the God must like me as I'm in let's say less than perfect situation. Doing this wee baby on my knee. I've had at least two piece trying to go into the abyss that is the graveyard of lost parts. Both of which would make Dafi's tic-tac look like a hot air balloon. And both bits were dragged back kicking and screaming to be stuck on deck. It was one of those occasions when the word "bollards" is most appropriate

 

So I shall resume my nautical duties and when I can figure out which way to point the camera I'll post some images of the newborn and it's mum.

 

So it's three sheets to the wind for me. And away anchors me hearties ⚓

[CaptainSteve]

Good evening my fellow modelers of all things nautical.

 

Does anyone know if it's possible to be prosecuted for being intoxicated and in charge of a pair of tweezers. Hic

 

I certainly hope not ... or I'm in a lot of trouble !!

[jbshan]

Chuck the little tyke back into the oven until it's done.  Three more pints of the best should do it.

[Izzy Madd]

Evening everyone.

 

It seems the Gods have stopped smiling down on me...

 

Why ist it after countless checks of the instructions and pictures.

 

And after you've made that cut you know your going to regret later.

 

That you think "oh I'll just check Campbell's drawings"

 

And then and only then do you find that...

 

...yes that piece should be there‽

 

So I end up having to do some drastic micro plastic surgery.

 

Ah well at least it's good practice. Sorry the images are upside down. No it's not the after effects of last night. It's my iPad being a right bollard.

[Izzy Madd]

Here's the the pics the right way up

 

the instructions

 

 

the amputated

 

 

Campbell's plans

 

 

the victim, sorry patient

 

 

Normal service will be resumed after sufficient suffering has been inflicted upon the patient. And I've had turn at "tapping the admiral"

[Izzy Madd]

Well as promised, pre restorative surgery. The latest addition to Madd Hatter line of ships.

 

 

And here with a small donation towards the restoration fund(5p)

 

 

And I can confirm its a bouncing baby girl weighing in at never ask a lady that question. And 24.7cm long and 15.5cm high.

[Izzy Madd]

It does leave me with one dilema though. I needed something for the horses tail. Which Nenad provided the answer to.

 

But as this is three times smaller what on earth can I use this time...

[NenadM]

In scale 1:350 it is very hard to make so small details. As I can see from your photos, it is pretty simplified model. Good luck with applying all (?) standing and running rigging by Campbell plans in this small scale. But I think that effort will be valuable, to get idea and perspective about Her extremly complicated and complex rigging. I am not sure that in this scale is possible to apply any rigging block, deadeye,,bolt, eye etc.etc,

 

Even a rope 0,5mm in diameter is thick to much.

 

Some ideas for horse trail...

 

The thinnest fishing line you can find (0,1mm)

 

hair from you or Admiral, or pet ( if you can find Persian or similar cat with soft very thin hair, that will be the best)

 

un-purred thin cotton thread

 

Or take pieces from bird's Feather

 

 

 

 

I am not kiddin'. This all has thin hairy structure. Micro-work any way

Edited April 26, 2015 by Nenad

[Izzy Madd]

In scale 1:350 it is very hard to make so small details. As I can see from your photos, it is pretty simplified model. Good luck with applying all (?) standing and running rigging by Campbell plans in this small scale. But I think that effort will be valuable, to get idea and perspective about Her extremly complicated and complex rigging. I am not sure that in this scale is possible to apply any rigging block, deadeye,,bolt, eye etc.etc,

Even a rope 0,5mm in diameter is thick to much.

Some ideas for horse trail...

The thinnest fishing line you can find (0,1mm)

hair from you or Admiral, or pet ( if you can find Persian or similar cat with soft very thin hair, that will be the best)

un-purred thin cotton thread

Or take pieces from bird's Feather

IMG_20150426_211533.JPG

I am not kiddin'. This all has thin hairy structure. Micro-work any way

As for hair from me I'm in line with your self I'm afrai. And no pets. I did wonder about monofilament lines. Never thought about feathers. I'll see how it looks could be interesting at least. As far as the rigging goes yes it's very simplified and I was going with that as this is very much an instant gratification thing and just for fun. And I may not even add a tail but I'm going to "try" painting Nannie if I don't sneeze and loose her.

 

 

As you can see she is rather on the wee side

 

But as for the miss guided amputation

 

 

Here's the new prosthetic after refinements

 

 

And here's the patient after surgery.

 

Not bad even if I do say my self.

 

Not in line with you chain work. But nice for a bit of fun. It certainly puts the 1/130 into perspective. And how complex they really are. As as they get bigger there are always smaller things that need including that didn't show at smaller scales.

[Izzy Madd]

Why is it that the when the models start getting smaller so do the tools. Even the glue bottle has shrunk...

 

Seriously ish though it's simpler to use the 0.5mm nozzle on these to glue the lines with. Which as you can tell I prefer PVA sometimes diluted 4:1 glue to distilled water. And a drop of good old TCP to stop the mould.

 

And of course the baby in the background half her masts and some rigging. It's so much easygoing to fit the shroud lines before fitting the mast.

[omarcs]

I was not aware ships were built without making mistakes.

 

Every build I have read has references to mistakes made and corrected. Seems to be the universal method of getting better.

 

Look at Nenad's first postings to what he is doing now. He has a beautiful ship with many parts redone several times.

 

Each correction moves us closer to the modeler we want to be.

 

Press on!!!

 

Omar  

[Izzy Madd]

Hi

 

Question for whom so ever wishes to answer it.

 

Having reached the halfway point of tying the shroud lines on my mini CS. I'm reminded of one of the earliest tip I got on this forum. "Replace the masts/spars". Which make plenty of sense when you pick one up and flex it. They bend like they are made out of toffee.

 

But. And here I have a clash of info. I've worked with woods of all kinds since the age of eleven. And I've seen a piece of wood that would snap if flexed more than five degrees tied into a knot. With nothing more than water soap and time. So wood can be just as flexible.

 

Now obviously I've had to study the standing lines on lots of different plans as the baby is so simplified that the rigging is almost as different as it could be. When compared to the real thing. But even at this scale. Or perhaps more so. The more line that are added and there are many all designed to hold the masts and spars where they should be. The more rigid the entire mast arrangement gets. And looking at the running lines as well they are all using leverage to hold the multitude of acres of sheets up top even when wet and a full wind in them. And no ones worked out how to swap a wooden mast for a steel one whilst sailing around the cape at 17 knots.

 

So my question is the wood work above decks is flexible on these models but is it really any more flexible than the real thing?

 

 

Because As far as I can see there is enough lines to haul an elephant up to the crows nest. Without so much as a creak never mind a snap.

 

Are the line which did the same thing on the originals actually sufficient to hold everything up and stable?

 

Especially when you consider a redwood pine, which was why was used up till the USA changed hands, can bend to 45 degrees before snapping. Which with all this rope work no plastic mast or spar is going anywhere near that.

 

I don't want to start a war just curious as to what others have experienced

[NenadM]

If your destiny is to do administrative works for living, you discover later in life, that in every handy job, esential are two things: know material you are working with, and more important - feel material you are working with.

 

I faced with issue of elastic masts yards and spars over 30 years ago working on simple and cheap models, and - do it wrong and bad, so not much to share.

 

But there are some experiences I picked up last two years. How material reacts depends very much on scale you working in. Say on this way: same rope 0,5mm diameter. To put it arround mast in several circles - no problemo. But, try to put it in 5mm deadeye with 3 holes structure, yoy'll quick find that rope is more elastic that you want and it just do not seat right on place, and whole structure of double dead eye just do not look well. Another example: Steel pipe 2" diameter 2ft long - strong as it can be. You can easily swear that there is nothing stronger. But same pipe 20 ft long is very very elastic. I didnt believe when see it first time, particulary which problems that produce when you make something larger

 

And just remember - in every technical school or faculty esential is to learn materials and constructions. I suppose same is/was with ship building. I have read somewhere that Cutty Sark was engineering masterpice of her time

 

So, play with materials, do some tests and find yuor own truth

Edited April 28, 2015 by Nenad

[Izzy Madd]

If your destiny is to do administrative works for living, you discover later in life, that in every handy job, esential are two things: know material you are working with, and more important - feel material you are working with.

I faced with issue of elastic masts yards and spars over 30 years ago working on simple and cheap models, and - do it wrong and bad, so not much to share.

But there are some experiences I picked up last two years. How material reacts depends very much on scale you working in. Say on this way: same rope 0,5mm diameter. To put it arround mast in several circles - no problemo. But, try to put it in 5mm deadeye with 3 holes structure, yoy'll quick find that rope is more elastic that you want and it just do not seat right on place, and whole structure of double dead eye just do not look well. Another example: Steel pipe 2" diameter 2ft long - strong as it can be. You can easily swear that there is nothing stronger. But same pipe 20 ft long is very very elastic. I didnt believe when see it first time, particulary which problems that produce when you make something larger

And just remember - in every technical school or faculty esential is to learn materials and constructions. I suppose same is/was with ship building. I have read somewhere that Cutty Sark was engineering masterpice of her time

So, play with materials, do some tests and find yuor own truth

I understand what you are saying and agree totally like I saw I was a cabinetmaker for several decades so wood and scale are things I know well it was just an observation of the layout of the rigging. Both real and model. It seems that just about every stress point is countered by either gravity or lines.

 

While I'm not going to throw the tips out of the window. It will be interesting to see the differences. And an interesting discussion point. As apart from a heavy pre Nelson three masted model done in my teens which vanished with several moves and marriages. And was never finished. I've not got beyond the decks myself other than the baby.. So time as always will be the great teacher of life.

[Izzy Madd]

As I've finally found a paint prepared to stick to big sis. Does anyone know how to remove an excess of acrylic paint without dissolving the hull?

 

Other than sandpaper and a copious amount of high viscosity oil of humerus. That is.

[mtaylor]

Izzy,

 

Have a look here:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7942-removing-paint-from-plastic-kit/

[Izzy Madd]

Izzy,

 

Have a look here:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7942-removing-paint-from-plastic-kit/

Thanks the Dettol worked brilliantly. Then again I was surprised that Dettol antiseptic contained caustic soda. Which explains why it feels slimy. But them again why do Dettol recommend it for pimples. AND say that the castor oil in it 'may' cause skin irritation. Nothing about the caustic soda fetching your skin of

[Izzy Madd]

Just let you know I've not been ignoring Nannie.

 

The mini is coming along great as I've got all the standing rigging done I think. Jut doi some of the running rigging.

 

I think the thread is to thick and I know it should be black but I like it and it's good practice for bis sis.

 

Also you' can see her brand new stand

 

 

 

Hope you all like.

[NenadM]

[Thunder]

Hi just spotted your log. Not sure if anyone already given you this advice but I built this model many years ago and there is an airfix guide book that when used guides on the build, lots of modifications and step by step rigging. They are often on ebay. They are by Noel C L Hackney. He also did a book for the Mayflower and the Victory. I had all three and used his methods for all my future builds.

 

I will see if I can find photographs of my builds to show the difference they make. The victory kit still has pride of place next to my wooden ship builds and 20 years on I still use it as a rigging reference.

[Lucius Molchany]

Can you post a close up pic of the bowsprit/jibboom?I want to see how how you rigged it and if you pit the chains on yet.

[Izzy Madd]

Hi just spotted your log. Not sure if anyone already given you this advice but I built this model many years ago and there is an airfix guide book that when used guides on the build, lots of modifications and step by step rigging. They are often on ebay. They are by Noel C L Hackney. He also did a book for the Mayflower and the Victory. I had all three and used his methods for all my future builds.

I will see if I can find photographs of my builds to show the difference they make. The victory kit still has pride of place next to my wooden ship builds and 20 years on I still use it as a rigging reference.

Hi,

 

Thanks I'll see if I can get those plans as I'm working up to doing the Victory and the Santa Maria. Thanks

[Izzy Madd]

Can you post a close up pic of the bowsprit/jibboom?I want to see how how you rigged it and if you pit the chains on yet.

Hi,

 

I can show the bowsprit but it's far from accurate as the instructions had none at all. I only knew there should be any because of the 1/130 version I'm also doing. And there are no chains at all on this little thing.

 

 

Also I had to add the lines to the bowsprit as I've snapped it off and the standing rigging for the fore mast would have snapped it again. So by tying it the right way it transfers the forces to the hull end of the boom.

 

I found doing the standing rigging front to back then the running rigging back to front. Also I made the mistake of thinking the running rigging would not alter ther standing. So glued the ends. If I'd left all as half hitch then I could have altered every thing just so. But that's the name of the game. Try it, fail, learn and try again. It's never too late to want to learn even if it's only how to tie a piece of thread...

 

Addendum:

 

Following the post above yours. If you go on the web the full plans are there for free. And they are pretty explanatory. Apart from anchor chains. I know as I'm building three models at once Mini Nannie 1/350 Big Nannie 1/30 and Will Everad 1/64. They should help a lot.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Izzy Madd

[Thunder]

Hi, will have a sort out and see what photographs I can find.

[Lucius Molchany]

Dude!I forgot to mention that I reinforced the plastic dolphin striker with a section of an old airbrush needle that I epoxied behind it on my Revell Thermopylae.I wish I would have told you sooner to avoid the breakage!.

[Izzy Madd]

Dude!I forgot to mention that I reinforced the plastic dolphin striker with a section of an old airbrush needle that I epoxied behind it on my Revell Thermopylae.I wish I would have told you sooner to avoid the breakage!.

No worries as I've snapped the striker. Of big sis so many times I've left it off for now. And only put the one on Mini Nan at the last minute. For the same reason. I'm a bit clumsy. I've even had to rig a fitted guard for the entire bowsprit on Big Sis. As I snapped the whole front end off the one on Mini Nan. It's surprising how much the rigging holds everything tight once it's all tensioned. They really had it all just right in order to keep things in balance. It's no wonder the design was never bettered, as it really was the equivalent of today's fly by wire technology wise. Right on the limit of the materials.

[popeye the sailor]

not a GOOD SIGN......hope you can fix it!

[Lucius Molchany]

Yes I agree!The rigging is very structural and really anchors the masts down.

[Izzy Madd]

Ahoy there,

 

Just a quick share. I've been wanting a keel clamp such as can be bought that allows movement in all directions. And I happen upon the item below. Which is a camara flash, and reflective umbrella mount.

 

Basically for £3.50 I've got a rotating base attachment, a ball joint and a secure threaded mounting point for whichever style of keel clamp I want to add. And as aluminium box section it's only £2.50 for 1.2mt then apart from some minor fabrication and some screws I've got a flexible keel clamp from 1.2mts to 0.6mts for under £10. Which I think is a great bargain without infringing copyright.

[Izzy Madd]

Ahoy there,

 

On the subject of keel clamps. I've just come across this in a model box.

 

 

Such a simple design and so easy to imitate. Yet comes from a long dead company.

 

 

At least thirty years. And a design I've not seen yet and I'm sure no one would mind people obtaining ideas from it