USS Constitution by Modeler12 - Cross-Section - Bow Area

[Modeler12]

Major hick-up.

 

I just realized that the orlop deck and berth deck don't line up vertically. They are off by about an 1/8 inch.

When I checked the drawings I found that I had made a change in the beam thickness for the orlop deck without changing the spacing between them. Hence the orlop is too short. The change was for five beams from 0.21 to 0.18 inch (5 x .03 = 0.15 inches).

 

The picture below (with both decks stacked on top of each other) doesn't show it that way too clearly, but I will make sure that the gun and spar deck beams are spaced correctly. I think I can live with this mistake as long as I keep the front edge lined up.

[GLakie]

That's a bummer Jay. Those evil gremlins have been gumming up the works.   I hope it all works out for you.

[gjdale]

I like your wood clamping idea Jay and will also "borrow" it.  Just this last weekend I ran into that exact problem and could have used this method instead of marking my pieces with the steel clamps.

[Modeler12]

I like your wood clamping idea Jay and will also "borrow" it.  Just this last weekend I ran into that exact problem and could have used this method instead of marking my pieces with the steel clamps.

Nothing to 'borrow', Grant. This whole forum is full of ideas and I think we can use any of the information for our own use. 

I did run into a situation when making flags and asked (and got) permission to copy flag designs from the editor of the web site (not this one).

 

What I had problems with when trying to use the metal spring clamps is that the edge was too narrow and I could not adjust the clamping distance. Hence, I made my own (a few hours work).

 

Moving right along with the berth deck (as if nothing happened ).

I made one of the 16 posts I need for the berth deck. They stand in front of each C-knee. But rather than free standing, I decided to keep them a tad longer and drill holes in the deck where they should go. Then later during assembly I can simply glue them in place using the knees for height alignment.

  

Edited June 15, 2015 by Modeler12

[JSGerson]

Out of curiosity, do you intend to add the "rivets" which are so prominent in the ship knee photos? If so, how?

[Modeler12]

Out of curiosity, do you intend to add the "rivets" which are so prominent in the ship knee photos? If so, how?

You know that is what I also thought.

I had done that for the full scale model by pre-drilling the bulwark planks before installing them and adding the rivets at that point. Mr. Hunt did it the hard way by hand drilling the planks after they were installed. If you are interested in the rivets shown below they are available in different sizes from Titsy Train Group.

However, when I tried to do that on the C-knees it was hard or almost impossible to reach the spots in the curved areas. Then I thought that if I were able to do it, I would have to do the other knees the same way and I quickly gave up on the idea.

What I may try is to add a drop of thick, brown paint. But then again, I prefer to keep this project 'clean' and not use paint except black, may be.

[mtaylor]

Jay,

Since the rivets were iron on the knees... black paint will work. 

[Modeler12]

Jay,

Since the rivets were iron on the knees... black paint will work. 

Here you go again, Mark. 

 

Do you mean to iron on those rivets like this?

[Modeler12]

One more picture for tonight.

 

It is my first try to sand the berth deck with all its ups and downs and then stain it with some water-based stain (my favorite).

The C-knees are more or less in position to give the whole thing some perspective.

However more sanding and corrections are in order.

 

Good night for now.

 

[mtaylor]

Here you go again, Mark. 

 

Do you mean to iron on those rivets like this?

knees 2000.png

 

 

Got me.... teach me to post before proofreading.     Should be "since the rivets used on the knees were iron..."    

Edited June 16, 2015 by mtaylor

[Canute]

A company named Archer Transfers http://www.archertransfers.com/index.html  makes rivet decals in many sizes/scales, but you'd need to seal the wood where you intend to place them. You can use Pledge with Future for the sealing. It's an acrylic floor finish.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Canute

[gjdale]

You could use a drop of glue to simulate the rivets Jay. You could even add colour to the glue before applying. I've seen this technique used to great effect.

[Modeler12]

Thanks Ken and Grant. I have seen the decals but never tried them. I did try the adhesive with black paint idea and that just was too hard to control. I used a round toothpick and pre-coated the wood surface, but it did not look right. Not enough raised definition. 

 

Since you guys talked me into it, I went back to the rivet idea. This time I used a 0.5 mm drill with 1/8 inch shaft that allowed me to get inside the curve. But I did have to use a pin vise. Slow work, but it seems ok. I still need to glue the rivets in place with a tiny dab of Titebond.

 

[JSGerson]

Blame me, I started this whole rivet discussion.

[Modeler12]

Blame me, I started this whole rivet discussion.

OK JS, so if the admiral thinks I am a bit slow, I can blame it you.

 

I hope I don't break too many drills and that I don't loose all those little brown guys.

BTW the shaft diameter of the drill is not 1/8 inch, it is 0.091 inches and does not fit the collets I have for the mill. Otherwise it would be a lost simpler. 

The large heads you see in the photographs are not really rivets. They are nuts on top of long bolts, I believe.

The place where I got the rivets also makes nuts with washers at the end of a bolt. That would have been nicer but I don't want to bother ordering those.

https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/c/ho_nbw--rivets/Default.aspx They are referred to as NBW.

[mtaylor]

Oh hell, Jay... blame us all.  We push each other.  Sometimes we're just like kids back on the playground: "I double-dog dare you to put rivets in those knees!!!"    :P      

Edited June 16, 2015 by mtaylor

[Modeler12]

OK Mark, you all dared me and here I go again. I was actually a push-over for that on the playground.

Besides that, I fell through the ice, fed a giraffe at the zoo with food between my lips, toasted mothers while in Belarus drinking vodka, etc.

But that was much later.

 

Below some C-knees lined up like 'pacman' and the little guy to be cobbled up. 

Actually it is my first try for rivets in the lodging knees.

Now I have to spend more money on rivets

I had some left over, but that is not enough if I am going to do this all the way around.

I also need more drills (broke one and I am on my last one).

Thanks guys!!!

 

[Canute]

Jay, a company named Grandtline makes plastic rivets/NBW in various scales. Here's a link: http://grandtline.com/default.html

[Modeler12]

Thanks Ken. I have ordered more rivets already, but Grandline has lots of interesting stuff. 

When I get to making the oven, for example, I may look into some of their parts such as sprockets, etc.

Another item is the window I made for the light room. My window panes leave a lot to be desired.

[Guest Tim I.]

Jay,

 

I am really enjoying your cross-section build. After doing the Mamoli cross-section kit of the Constitution it is really nice to see the level of detail you are adding to your cross-section. 

I find your method of fabrication and assembly fascinating. I am watching with great interest!!

 

- Tim

[Modeler12]

Thank you Tim.

When I considered doing a cross section of the full scale model I just finished, I looked at the kit. But since I have the equipment to do some milling, lathe work etc, I figured all I had to loose is some time and a few bucks in wood if I did it 'my way' and screwed up.

 

Then one thing led to another and here I am.

The frames have been rough cut and some assembled to the keel, but I decided to hold off with the rest until I have a firm grasp of all that is to come. For example the carlings on the berth deck had to be moved because of the large bits on the deck above. Then I decided to add LEDs to some parts and that meant going through the keel and up along the starboard side. I still need to do that. The powder room needs lots of details and sits right on top of the keelsom.

 

So, I will continue with making the gun deck but will hold of with the spar deck until the frames are ok and the bottom decks fitted. At least that is my plan.

[keelhauled]

very nice work.  A joy to watch!

[Modeler12]

Because of my mistake with beam spacing, I am trying to be extra careful with the gun deck.

 

I checked my drawings and they are fine. Then I made spacers to correspond to those measurements. They will help while clamping the beams together. This was also the time to mark where the carlings were to go (black pencil marks).

Next comes the milling of the grooves in the beams for the carlings. Number one beam is mounted on the mill table.

  

If I screw this up again, I quit.

 

[Modeler12]

Here is the result:

 

I should mention that the knees were giving me a bit of a thinking problem. Notice that they are alternating in orientation. I merrily went along and made them as before (all nicely in a row). Then I noticed my mistake, turned three of them over (and I still had the same mistake). The reason is that the bottom edge slants and that does not translate with a flip.

The correct knees had to be redrawn and drilled, cut and sanded again.

Obviously, - in the picture above - I still need to notch the new ones and add the ledges.

 

So, now I have three more knees if anyone needs extra knees for some kind of transplant. But they are lefties and may walk a bit strangely. So, be forewarned. They also need rivets.

 

BTW as before, I did not add the carlings and ledges on top (the port side), because that will all be covered with deck planking.

[GLakie]

Heck of a feat of engineering Jay. Very nice!! 

[keelhauled]

You are a patient man, Jay.  My head hurts just thinking of the geometric difficulties!  You're doing an awesome job!

[Modeler12]

Heck of a feat of engineering Jay. Very nice!! 

Thank you again, George and Keelhauled.

I might mention, looking at the picture above, that the two open areas at each end are for a hatch cover to the left and the fore-mast towards the bow. Hence no ledges across those spaces.

I also found that leaving the hatch frames off until later gives me more room to sand the deck planks. I should have done the same with the orlop deck. Some times I jump ahead too fast.

 

Tomorrow I will show another picture of the berth deck sanded, stained, poly-wiped and (hopefully) finished. But it still will be interesting to see how the sail-room partitions and others, such as crates, barrels and other details, will effect the overall view. Much later!

Edited June 20, 2015 by Modeler12

[Modeler12]

Here is one of those 'Gots-you'.

I made such a careful point earlier that the large bits on the gun deck should not interfere with the beams below. And indeed I had to realign the carlings on the berth deck to make sure it fitted.

Well, that was one, but what about the second one, towards the bow? 

The 'book' shows a slight change in width for the two bits and I just made both the same. Mistake.

Now I have to see how I can correct my mistake.

 

[Modeler12]

Problem resolved. Broke the riding bit, cut the main beam shorter and moved it so it fits between the carlings.

 

Just received the order of more rivets from Itchy Train Group. Fast delivery, only a few days.
Included were two packages of 'square nuts with washers'. If you have a microscope you might see the details, but for all practical purposes the rivets are good enough.

Below is one of the riding bits for the gun deck with the nuts and washers installed. The picture is a bit out of focus and I will try to take another shot later.

 

Sorry, I took another picture of the square nut and washer and still could not tell the difference.

When I stare at it long enough I think I can see a nut. But maybe it is just me.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Modeler12

[mtaylor]

Lovely work, Jay.  Good catch on the riding bitts and it appears to be an excellent fix.