America by hamilton - FINISHED - Mamoli - 1:66 scale

[igorsr]

Hamilton,

 

Very nice work,

And i agree with Peter, coppering of the lower hull.

 

Igor

[mojofilter]

Hello Hamilton -

 

Extremely nice job!!

 

I am just finishing the final hull details on my Mamoli America.  I'm not sure if this the proper way to link to a build on this forum, but I think you can see it here:

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13201-america-by-mojofilter-mamoli-scale-166-1851-first-wooden-ship-build/

 

I did not take anywhere near the care you took with the bulkhead framing - and I paid the price!  I basically just glued it all up and then began adjusting/shimming/cutting/filing/filling...

I followed Mamoli's instruction for planking the first layer - staring at the top of the bulkheads (inside of the bulwark) and working down.  By the time the second planking was on, the bulwarks were plenty strong and I could cut off the top of the frames and rotary-file/sand the bulwarks with no problem.

 

I too decided to copper the hull.  I used 1" wide self-adhesive copper tape which I scored from the front side with a very dull Xacto knife into "plates", and the using a pounce wheel from the back side, created the rivets.

I was able to cover a lot of the hull this way but of course had to get down to individual rows of plates in the gores.  I did not like the look of the raw copper - way too shiny, and I wanted to spray lacquer on the hull to help keep the copper from coming off, so I used Jax patina fluid to 'age' the copper.  I now think that it went too far.

When I do Cutty Sark (next), I will do as suggested elsewhere in the forum, and "let nature take it's course".  If the copper is left uncoated, it should darken down to a nice 'old penny' brown.

 

If you look in my build log you will see a problem I ran into with the bowsprit.  The plans call for the bowsprit to be turned down to 3mm at the end, but the plans show what looks to be 4mm at the end.  The kit did not have the fitting called out as (501) I believe, so I didn't have the part to reference.  I ended up making my own part (couples the end of the bowsprit to the middle of the jib boom).

 

Anyway, keep up the really good work!!

 

- Tim

[mojofilter]

Hi Hamilton - correction, the part missing from my kit was (525).

 

Incidentally, I have noticed that a number of America kits, as well as paintings and other depictions show America with no jib boom at all.  Same with the replica America out of San Diego.

 

- Tim

[hamilton]

Hi Tim:

 

Thanks for this! My planking experience is still happening (I've almost finished the second layer on the starboard side and about half done on the port....as I mentioned earlier I've altered the planking to make things a bit "easier" for myself - not sure it worked out that way in reality!! Isn't that always the case!

 

I'm pretty sure my kit came with the jibboom iron, though it's been a while since I sorted through the fittings.....there were some missing parts though - I only got 2 of the palls for the capstan (there should have been 6) and one of the windows for the aft skylight is missing....Cutting the tiny palls could be a real pain, and I've not yet figured out how I'm going to scratch build the skylight windows.....

 

Natural ageing on the copper takes a while. My Kate Cory, which I built back in 2010-11 is now a really nice "old penny" tone, as you say. But it took a couple years to get it to this stage. There are some suggestions out there for artificially ageing the copper, and various patina products you can get (I'm not sure if the product you mention is by the same people that make "Blacken-it", but I know they have a patina product, too - never used it though, so can't comment on results). 

 

If you look at aliluke's Fly log, you'll see a very original, if somewhat off-putting, approach to weathering the copper. His results look really good, but the method takes some nerve, I think....

 

I'm just going to go have a look at your America - thanks again for dropping by!

hamilton

[hamilton]

Yikes!! I see my last real update on this log was back in mid-December.....To be honest my work on this model (and on modelling in general) has been very sporadic since I finished the Fair Rosamund last year. After about 6 years of consistent modelling (and 13 completed models) maybe I've just needed a break....

 

In any event, it's not that no work has been done. I've been working on the second planking and on deck planking, but it's been 2 weeks since I've worked on it at all.....this update is really a throw-back to when I was planking the bulwarks. I elected to create a small rabbet for the second planking by throwing some .5mm sapele left over from my San Francisco build onto the sternpost, keel and stem. The first photos show this.

 

 

 

 

I then masked the edges of the subdeck and the bulkhead extensions to protect them from glue and edge-glued the bulwark planks in place....this needed some finessing and a lot of clamping to make sure they ran properly and were solidly fastened onto the hull plank edges. Even then, as I've done the second planking I've had to re-glue the bulwarks at the bow a couple of times.....fortunately I think I'm past the point in planking where I'm putting a lot of pressure on the planks....and I also hope that once the outboard hull is painted it will hide at least some of the imperfections.....Anyway, here are some more photos! Enjoy!

hamilton

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hamilton]

Hello all

 

Another (and more recent!) update on America.

 

Unfortunately, I have no photo documentation of a couple of things - the second planking, the margin planks, and the deck-planking in process. But as I mentioned in the last post, the second planking continues....though in fact I've avoided it tonight in favour of finishing the aft deck. Prior to installing the deck planks, I made margin planks. For these, I used some 1/32" basswood sheets. Prior to installing the decks I had taken patterns of the deck pieces using carbon and bristol paper. These I now cut out of the bristol paper and used them as templates to make the margin planks. I cut the outboard profile of the margin planks and then set a compass to 4mm to mark the inboard edge. I rough cut the margin planks a little thick and then very gently trimmed and sanded them down to size - they're not perfect, but they're alright.

 

I decided on a 3 butt shift for the deck planking, having no idea what might have been the case on the actual America. This stage always takes longer than I expect it will - in fact the aft deck has, in the end, taken 3 nights work and there's still the fore deck to complete. The first three photos below show the deck planks unfinished and the last two with 1 coat of tung oil...more coats to come. Enjoy the photos!

hamilton

 

 

 

 

 

[mojofilter]

Hi Hamilton -

 

It looks like you had very good lock with your bulwark planking idea.  I just glued the first course to the upper frames, followed by the second course.  Then I cut them off level with the sub-deck.  The severed frame tops then just kinda popped off the inner bulwark.  I cleaned it up with sandpaper.  The little 2mm batons (?) laid vertically against the inner bulwarks at 10mm intervals covered a multitude of sins.

I like the look of the 3 butt shift in the deck planking.  I never thought about it and just followed the Mamoli plans for the decking.  My log shows some pictures of the modern replica America.  It's a beautiful deck but I doubt they even tried to be true to the original.  The kit has 4mm planking which translates to 264mm (about 10.4" @ 1:66 scale) wide.  I think I read somewhere that the original deck had 5" wide planking.

 

I'm considering 2mm for the Cutty Sark (assuming I ever get there).  That will translate to a little over 6" @ 1:78 of the Mantua kit.  The trouble with these scales is that you can "realistic" yourself right into invisibility.

 

Anyway, keep up the beautiful work.

 

-Tim

[mojofilter]

Hi - Just re-read that you are using 3mm for the deck planking.  I think that will be a nice compromise.

 

- Tim

[hamilton]

Thanks Tim - so many aspects of this kit have been troublesome - in a weird way because on the surface of things, the kit seems (and is) very straightforward....I think in many ways I've been overcomplicating things.....particularly with the hull planking and the bulwarks....but I'm almost through both and have sworn not to get too analytical about the build from now on......

hamilton

[harlequin]

looking great Hamilton......you miss greyhound?......my childrens pet rats nibbled some of the rigging of my Greyhound recently so had to do a repair job.  

[hamilton]

Harlequin:

 

The fact that there are rats involved in the slow deterioration of your Greyhound simply adds to the authenticity of the build - despite what I imagine is a serious scale issue......

 

I kind of do kind of don't miss the Greyhound.....I definitely put more effort into it than I am with this one, for some reason.....anyways, always wish I had more time for modelling - now it's back to work!

hamilton

[hamilton]

More progress on America

 

I've been avoiding getting back to the second layer of hull planking - I won't be able to avoid it much longer, though.....Instead, I've been focusing on the decks and bulwarks. Tonight I started on planking the fore deck and installing the bulwark stanchions. The latter I started from three points - at the step of the aft deck port and starboard and at the centre of the transom bulwarks. From there, I installed several stanchions fore and aft and radiating out along the inboard transom. Not very exciting, but it's nice not to struggle with the hull planking! Here are some photos - the detritus on the forward deck is pre-cut deck planks. Enjoy

 

 

 

 

 

[mojofilter]

Very nice!!

I really like the three step plank butt progression.  The kit said two so I did two.

Did you get pre-cut hand railing with your kit?  I did not - had to cut my own out of thin walnut strip.  They are in four pieces (plus the stern wrap) and it took me several trys.  I recommend plenty of glue as the rails get a lot of abuse during construction.  Up until I started the rigging (deck blocks) I used TiteBond II for everything.

Keep up the beautiful work!

 

- Tim

[hamilton]

Hi Tim:

 

Thanks for your kind words! I didn't actually consult the kit for the planking, but I like the 3-butt shift. And no, there was no pre-cut cap rail with the kit...I have a thin sheet of walnut that I'll use....I think yours turned out great - hopefully I can achieve something similar. Bye for now

hamilton

[mojofilter]

Hi Hamilton -

 

Have you given any thought to your shroud lines as far as color?  Looks like the kit (box photos anyway) show shrouds served in black from the deadeyes to the little cross spacer (insert nautical term here), maybe 15mm, then white to about half way up the shroud, then black again from there to the mast.  You can barely see it in the tiny picture on the end of the box.

 

I can't find any info on the original, and don't see any finished builds on the forum.

Any thoughts?

 

- Tim

[hamilton]

Hi Tim.....hmmm no - actually I hadn't noticed. I know that in more contemporary rigging practice this would be wire, and therefore would either be grey or perhaps painted white or some other colour.....But I'm not aware of the specifics of period rigging practice and did not notice the picture on the box....I also don't know how accurate Mamoli's representation might be. 

 

There are several paintings of America that I managed to find through a Google image search, though I haven't inspected them for rigging details....I'm at work at the moment but this evening when I get a chance I'll have a look through the paintings to see if there are any clues to this......

hamilton

[dgbot]

I would think the shrouds were rope.  Wire rigging did not become common until the 1890s i think and the America was built in 1851.  

David B

[hamilton]

Thanks David - yes this makes sense. The Mamoli kit does show them at least partially painted white, though....not sure how common this practice was or whether it's one of those fanciful embellishments often found on model kits.....

hamilton

[hamilton]

So I'm not sure about copyright, so instead of including images here I'm just going to post links - this is a pain, I know, since it would be easier just to reference pictures in line, but........

 

Tim (mojofilter) asked a question regarding the shrouds on America. The photos of the kit prototype on the box show the shrouds finished white for close to half their lower length, with the sheer poles also white. They are represented as unpainted (black/tarred) below the sheer poles and the deadeyes are a natural wood finish. The question is whether this would have been the way the 1851 America would have been rigged. I've seen several paintings that suggest that, yes, this was the practice. They are faint, but they are there. Here are a couple of links

 

http://www.jrusselljinishiangallery.com/pages/ryan-pages/ryan-schooner%20yacht%20america.htm

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_(yacht)#/media/File:America_(schooner_yacht)_by_Bard.jpg

 

This second painting seems pretty rudimenary compared to the first, but it confirms the finishing of the shrouds. I've never painted rigging line, so I don't know if there's anything particular to keep in mind - I assume it may involve more than just slapping the paint on! I also have no idea why such a finishing would be given to the shrouds - does anyone know? 

 

But Tim - I think I will do the shrouds this way - or at least I'll test some white paint on some rigging line and see what I think and then decide for sure.....

hamilton

[dgbot]

Could it have been a serving or cover?  Remember that this was a racing yacht and they may have done this to protect the shroud.  Or it it could be artist's license.

David B

[hamilton]

I wondered if it might be some kind of serving over the shroud......but a sleeve of some kind is also a possibility.......and more likely

hamilton

[mojofilter]

So my Syren serving machine arrived and I assembled it - quite a nice little gadget.  I mounted up some of the shroud line and served about an inch on one end in black - pretty fine thread - to go around the deadeye, then white thread from there to about half the length of the line, then about 3/4" at the top (black thread again) to be seized around the mast.  I don't know if white and black paint was applied directly to rope in 1851, but I think I like the look of the served shroud line.  I'll try to get a picture up on my log.

I note that in both links that Hamilton provided (THANKS!!), There are two shrouds to the step of the mainmast.  The third (aft) shroud to the top of the stepped mast is not there (as in the kit).  So in all the paintings and other references, the vote seems to be about 2/3 without the third shroud, and 1/3 with.

 

- Tim

[hamilton]

Hi Tim:

 

I was thinking about getting one of those.....might need to wait as other purchases (not to mention my mortgage) are taking priority.

 

I don't think the lines would have been painted at all. David's suggestion that it was some kind of sheathing or wrapping around that part of the shrouds seems more likely to me  - probably some kind of canvas cover designed to protect the shrouds. Painting or serving would be a way of simulating this at scale.

 

I know that the foremost shroud on period ships of war was served for the entire length, while other shrouds were served at the mast head and for a short length below. I'm not sure if serving shrouds was regular practice for a racing vessel.....But if you can achieve the look you're aiming for through this method, then who's to argue? I think the builder of the Mamoli prototype must have painted the shrouds to achieve the same effect, but the potential for sloppiness in this approach seems great, while careful serving would likely look a lot tidier.

 

Looking forward to seeing your results!

hamilton

[harlequin]

ha ha....your true colours are showing.........a second planking putter offer.............just like me...........i do 2 or 3 second planking strips a day, sometimes just one and sometimes none at all......proper shipbuilder just like me.

[hamilton]

Yes....I'm only a little ashamed to admit it....you think at my slow pace the results would be better!! Anyway, I'll have to get back to it one day....

hamilton

[mojofilter]

Hi Hamilton -

 

Be nice to see the windlass and skylights on some deck furniture ;-}  ... 

Kidding - life just kinda gets in the way of more important things sometimes.

Try getting doctor's orders for this special therapy.

 

- Tim

[hamilton]

If by "life" you mean more satisfying parts of the model, then yes that's right! Though Life too (as in family, work, home projects, taking out the trash, mowing the lawn, washing dishes, remembering to eat, maintaining friendships, reading, sweeping the floors, enjoying the sunshine, etc....)...so much can get in the way of the second planking it's a wonder it ever gets done!

hamilton

[hamilton]

Hello there:

 

Well my summer vacation has started, which means that, in addition to building some new steps for the patio, occasionally mowing the lawn and going on a couple of little adventures, there's a bit more time for modelling - something which has sadly been on the back burner for some time now. This morning I spent a couple of hours on America - the first work I've put into her for a couple of weeks. Since my last post I've completed a few things - the deck planking, the bulwark stanchions and the starboard side hull planking. The port hull is almost fully planked but for a small 4-plank strip at the turn of the bilge. This I'll fill in tomorrow. I am not proud of the planking, but since the hull will be painted and coppered I'm not too worried about it. I will slather it with some of the acrylic modelling paste I use for filler and then sand it to a high sheen before finishing it and hopefully when all is done it will look alright. In the meantime, here are some photos of the deck area - as you can see the bulwarks will need a bit of touching up, which will happen once the hull is fully planked.....The deck could probably take another coat of Tung oil as well.....bye for now

hamilton

 

 

 

 

 

[rafine]

Very nice deck planking.

 

Bob

[mtaylor]

Nice to see you back at the America, Hamilton.   That is a good looking deck.