Mississippi Riverboat by chborgm - Mantua - Scale 1:50

[cog]

Clarence,

 

My two cents ... I can't see it tarred all over, as in the summer's heat you'd be dragging yourself along the deck, and maybe lose a shoe or two ... the caulked and planked version seems a more realistic approach ...

 

Cheers

[Cathead]

Clarence, great question, and one I wrestled with on Bertrand, too. I haven't been able to find any direct reference to how upper decks were finished, books just seem to pass over that question. This may be because superstructures are so rarely preserved, and contemporary chroniclers may have found the detail too mundane to record.

 

There are also relatively few photographs of steamboats from a high enough angle to show the upper deck surfaces, and of high enough quality and zoom that you can see anything even when the angle is right. That being said, my sense after studying the images I could find, was that many of these exposed upper decks seemed smoother and more seamless than a straightforward plank deck. And in a few cases I could convince myself that the surface looked almost rumpled. They also seem a different shade of color (grey in the photos) than the lower plank decks.

 

I think Carl's right that it couldn't be tar, because the heat of the Mississippi Valley would reduce that to utter awfulness. But I wonder whether they stretched canvas or some other covering over the planked upper decks? Or some kind of dry tarpaper, if that existed then? This could have helped protect the decks and provided some additional waterproofing, as I don't know how much time steamboat crews really spent caulking and recaulking deck seams. It wasn't the Royal Navy, after all, and a canvas deck covering would have been a lot easier than perfect deck maintenance. A quick glance at Model-Expo's Chaperon model appears to show a smooth black coating, as does the large-scale Bertrand model at its museum, though I'm not sure what material either represents, or what information that choice is based on.

 

That being said, I haven't been able to prove it either way to my satisfaction, so went the safe route with Bertrand and just planked the decks. As a compromise, I stained the upper deck planks grey-black. This provided some attractive contrast with the decks below, and suggested the color change I thought I saw in photographs. I decided that I didn't want to try to simulate some kind of tarpaper/canvas deck covering without  more information, so this was a safe approach, as no one really knows what the Bertrand looked like up top anyway.

 

You might considering PMing Glenn Grieco to see if he has any insight, given his own extensive knowledge and connections to steamboat researchers. Same for Kurt Van Dahm, who is a big riverboat aficionado. Or start a question thread in the research section of MSW to crowd-source ideas about deck coverings. That might be the best approach, actually. Here's what I did to Bertrand, as a reminder:

 

 

Sorry to not be much help; I'm just an amateur and there's likely more information out there that I haven't run across in my dabbling.

 

[cog]

Grey-ish might as well be aged teak which misses it's regular oiling sessions ... On the other hand, one would expect a possible maintenancce free deck, and as it doesn't need to withstand rough handling, the canvas option doesn't sound bad at all ... I've read some books on the paddle wheelers, but unfortunately I've never come across anything concerning materials used on the 'upper' deck, so I'll not be much help either

 

Cheers

Edited April 1, 2016 by cog

[Cathead]

It occurs to me that another benefit of a canvas-type covering would be better traction. A lot of these upper decks didn't have much in the way of railings, and wooden decks can get slippery fast.

 

What I don't know, even if this is the case, is when and where such things came into use. Most steamboat photography comes from the post-ACW era, so it's possible it's a later innovation that something like Bertrand didn't have. That would still make it relevant for Clarence's build.

 

Here's an example; scroll down to see a zoomed-in view of the deck:

 

http://www.shorpy.com/node/8708

 

The discussion thread mentions the rows of buckets hanging from a rack, wondering if they're tar buckets.That upper surface sure looks smoother than raw planking. It's also a very late image, though,1910, so there may be a new approach that wasn't available to earlier boats before the common photography era.

[kurtvd19]

It appears that the roof covering is tar paper.  The Texas decks roof shows port to starboard seams.  I simulated tar paper on my Chaperon model using Silk Span strips, glued in place using Artist's Acrylic Matte Medium (AAMM).  The AAMM was brushed onto the back of the strip then the strip was laid down onto the surface, overlapping the previous strip by a scale 6 - 8 inches.  The entire roof area was done this way and then the surface was painted with a weathered flat black.  I used some of the AAMM, after the painting of the tar paper, along the seams to make it look like tar had been applied as a repair to hold down an edge.  These decks as you can see from the Shorpy photo were not used by the passengers.  I have seen photos of planks laid over the tar paper to protect it from foot traffic.

 

Caulked decks are not always as water tight as one might assume.  These boats were not always maintained to the high standards associated with passenger traffic as we know it today.  The use of tar paper or maybe canvass laid down with tar would go far towards making the roofs shed water - more so than a caulked deck.  Remember these boats were very flexible and caulking wouldn't last long.  During the 2006 NRG Conference in San Diego the vendors were inundated with rain coming through the caulking of the main deck of the San Diego Museum's Star of India and I am pretty sure this ship had better maintenance than the typical riverboat.

 

The buckets in the racks are fire buckets that are immediately adjacent to water barrels.  Sparks from the stacks on the roof could get a real fire going.  The buckets were kept handy hanging on the racks so they would always be accessible and in the same place.  Most fire buckets were also made with domed bottoms so that the buckets would not sit flat and would also hold a bit more water than a flat bottom.  The rounded bottom made sure they were not removed by a crew member to use for another purpose so they were assured of being available when needed.  This was true of all fire buckets not just those on riverboats.

 

Kurt

[chborgm]

I agree with Kurt. It seems at times the most "minor" questions get the most interest and in sight.

When I built the chaparon it bothered me that there was no planking from the fore steps on the top deck to the cabins.

 

On my "non riverboat research" I found this

 

STORY AND DEVELOPMENT History demonstrates that failure to account for mistakes of the past can produce devastating results. In the late 1800s, BUR materials were used to replace lead sheets on commercial wooden buildings.3 BURs were constructed in situ, using alternating layers of jute and tar or lake asphalt. These constructions, though crude, used largely unrefined bitumen that was rich in natural constituents and provided an improvement over conventional roof constructions of the time. Documented use of asphalt for roofing,

 

 

Anyway I think I am going the plank the top deck since it does have a railing, and was sort for viewing. I will "tar" the roof of the glass house.

 

I reserve the right to change my mind.

 

Thanks again for all the feedback.

 

Clarence 

[Cathead]

Great details, Kurt! One question: do you know when tar paper came into use that way, and what (if anything) was used on upper decks before that?

 

Apologies for my wordy theorizing. Should've just let an expert answer in the first place.

 

Keep up the good work, Clarence, this has been fun to follow.

[kurtvd19]

Cathead:

I don't know.  However, I will ask a true expert and get back to the group.  I will ask Jack about tar paper and canvass coverings.  It might take a bit as the professor can take some time to check his emails.

Kurt

[chborgm]

I thought I'd take a few picture to show some progress

 

The wood piles are not in the plans, but I could not resist adding them. I am going to add a few more rack. The wood is little twigs of oak.

 

I still have to add the peaked roof on the pilot house, a lot of railing, and other stuff.

Try to keep up to date.

 

Clarence 

[md1400cs]

Very nice log. I have always been intrigued by these boats. You did yours "really good" (:-)  

 

Excellent levels of details indeed. Yes the wood stack looks great. Happy to follow along.

 

Michael

[S.Coleman]

Marvelous job. I like the wood stacks. I had a similar problem with scales not accurate on my Mantua President.

[Gerhardvienna]

Hi Clarence

 

Lovley build, I like that. The pilots hous with its interior is another important part, and the piles make the model live!

 

Regards

Gerhard

[Cathead]

Very nice progress. I agree that having some wood piles on board is a good touch. Interesting that this boat's wheel is fully above the deck; on some, the wheel was large enough to extend through the deck so it could be set low enough for handling.

[chborgm]

i am not sure I understand. I have not changed the centerline, but I reduced the diameter. I have not had the wheeel on fo a time, but I think it has three paddles below the waterline. I'll set it back on and take some pictures tomorrow. 

[Cathead]

Pilot house wheel, not paddle wheel. Sorry for confusion.

[chborgm]

I understand now, and in hindsight I should have.. The plan called for the wheel to be in the slot, but I wanted to have the rope and drum, and better support which was not possible as designed. After I assembled it, and glued it place I realized I should have moved the opening. Sometime you don't see the forest for the trees. 

[chborgm]

I have made a little more progress, I have finished the railing all around.

 

 

I also decided to name it after my wife Joyce.

 

I also have taken a step backward. When I put the paddle wheel on it looked to big and bulky.

 

 

The kit was designed so that it could be an RC boat so the paddle wheel was big and heavy. As I mentioned before I cut it down to be a more realistic diameter, but didn't scale the structure down. Also I didn't like the red I had painted it.

Anyway I decided to build one more correctly scaled and either use a diferent shade of red or use a more natural wood color.

 

[Cathead]

Lots of railings! I like the lighting effects.Interesting that the staircases are at different angles on different decks. Any idea why?

[chborgm]

The stairs are at different angles because I screwed up. I took some wrong measurements and,I didn't realize it until I did the upper stairs correctly. In reality you couldn't climb the lower stairs without hitting your head. I couldn't correct it without tearing up a lot of work.

[Cathead]

Heh, sorry for picking at an unknown scab. For what it's worth, it didn't even occur to me that way, I just assumed there was something interesting about the design that made it that way. I suspect the vast majority of viewers would, too.

[chborgm]

Thought I would take a few pictures and show  status. I have all the standing rigging done, and built a new paddle wheel. I now have the the search light mounted and operational. I still have a lot of details, and complete the top of the pilot house. Also I have two ten foot skiffs to build and mount.

 

.

[Cathead]

You've done a really nice job; the lighting is a wonderful effect.

[cog]

She's shining like a star ... looks wonderful ... great build so far!

[Jparsley]

She is awesome love what you've done Just hope mine looks a third as good Mine won't be lit up unfortunately

[chborgm]

i THINK THE LIGHTS HIDE a lot of the bad parts. It's what I would call: " A five footer". if you are closer than that all the defects show up. There is so much carpentry work that a  to show youlot of bad joints to protect  happen. I am not going to put any closeup pictures in, 

 

jparsley... are you building this kit?

[Jparsley]

I'm building the king of the Mississippi

[chborgm]

I think I made a lot of typo in my last post. Hope you figured it out.

[Jparsley]

Yes I understood It's still a great looking boat you've done well

[dgbot]

Beautiful.

David B

[captain frank]

On 2/22/2016 at 12:06 PM, chborgm said:

12v 1.8mm LEDS.

 Thank you for your advice on the Mississippi steamer

I have just started this model and want to know where the battery is placed for the LED lights and where did you buy the lights from

 

Thank you

Captain Frank