HMS Thorn by Kevin Kenny - 1:48 scale - Swan-class - David Antscherl practium

[Kevin Kenny]

 

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Kevin Kenny
Had to redo the video on Youtube

[Kevin Kenny]

Hopefully this resolves the problem.

 

 

[dvm27]

Vandolay sold special 3/4" cutters for their treenail makers after I inquired about them. I still have them but quite honestly think the Byrnes treenail maker is the easiest and fastest way to make them. I start with bamboo skewers sold ib grocery stores.

[AON]

I use bamboo skewers from the grocery store.

If using bamboo shoots I was told to use the middle pith not the bark.

[stuglo]

Are you just using the sharpened point then sharpening again for each treenail? If so, it seems more work than producing the required diameter over the whole length, with use of drawplate or "drill" method.

[Kevin Kenny]

Stuglo, i assume you are asking about the needles used to make the tree nails. The sharpened point was cut off and the blunt end sharpened evenly. This was used to drill the wood and i was able to fill the blank with 65 holes each having a treenail in it. This took about 2 minutes.  Its still early days as these needles cut 2” treenails. I need to get smaller needles before i sign off on this method. In the mean time i am using treenails made on the jim Byrnes draw plate. 

[No Idea]

56 minutes ago, Kevin Kenny said:

Stuglo, i assume you are asking about the needles used to make the tree nails. The sharpened point was cut off and the blunt end sharpened evenly. This was used to drill the wood and i was able to fill the blank with 65 holes each having a treenail in it. This took about 2 minutes.  Its still early days as these needles cut 2” treenails. I need to get smaller needles before i sign off on this method. In the mean time i am using treenails made on the jim Byrnes draw plate. 

Hi Kevin - I'm also trying this needle method and I'm getting great results thanks to the thread on here originally started by vaddoc.

 

I have found that by taking his advice and using body piercing needles instead of hypodermic needle's the results are much better.  Just google body piercing needles and you will see what I mean.  Here's and example - Also I have found that just putting a 30 degree angle or there abouts on the end of the needles works great.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252808332323?hash=item3adc8d0423:g:gfgAAOSwxEpYxC5Y&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA8E%2BnzGprgTxciozHiEvBmvsFdXyWpfpBmyGeotGRlNuJL6v0ubwGUBsM%2B86sfQUiUGWDaSqhoMIFOErXTy86WmaGG%2BLBXBPfVNStypmSOx87Es3o%2BU2q5X0f9jl96uW9SC0AWN%2FYSlGTjcld34grvzItmoirt2gN60BKo%2FmDIAGZAKLqDLH7LgqBa2CM%2F7XXjCe%2BpOjBGVVSYfQRoym5X1d9mRoPY8vx%2Bm1pJn4AuNpNKqC%2B42hROWHrlxUTY%2BbK3VjJ9IhlGBuEMIxxBc31VapuRIjfopXurPuQWeQYA9wxg7A4TGyOZFRLWO3KC0%2Bz0g%3D%3D|tkp%3ABFBM9vSkytdg

[Kevin Kenny]

I hate using pseudonym, any way. “no idea” have you figured out the various needle sizes that would produce the correct size treenails.

in 1/4” scale i am looking for 1”, 1.5” and 1.75”, in imperial measurement that would be .021, .03 & .036 and in metric it would be .56, .78 & .94. 
 

once i can confirm these numbers and find a good supplier i would post this data in the video description with the appropriate link.  Also, have you figured out the best speed for the drill press. Its quite clear to me that if the speed get above 1000 RPM the needle get to jot. I started lubricating  with silicon and it works great. I even sprayed the wood and all the burning stopped. 
kevin

Edited August 20, 2022 by Kevin Kenny
Wanted to add some more content.

[garyshipwright]

4 hours ago, No Idea said:

Hi Kevin - I'm also trying this needle method and I'm getting great results thanks to the thread on here originally started by vaddoc.

 

I have found that by taking his advice and using body piercing needles instead of hypodermic needle's the results are much better.  Just google body piercing needles and you will see what I mean.  Here's and example - Also I have found that just putting a 30 degree angle or there abouts on the end of the needles works great.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252808332323?hash=item3adc8d0423:g:gfgAAOSwxEpYxC5Y&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA8E%2BnzGprgTxciozHiEvBmvsFdXyWpfpBmyGeotGRlNuJL6v0ubwGUBsM%2B86sfQUiUGWDaSqhoMIFOErXTy86WmaGG%2BLBXBPfVNStypmSOx87Es3o%2BU2q5X0f9jl96uW9SC0AWN%2FYSlGTjcld34grvzItmoirt2gN60BKo%2FmDIAGZAKLqDLH7LgqBa2CM%2F7XXjCe%2BpOjBGVVSYfQRoym5X1d9mRoPY8vx%2Bm1pJn4AuNpNKqC%2B42hROWHrlxUTY%2BbK3VjJ9IhlGBuEMIxxBc31VapuRIjfopXurPuQWeQYA9wxg7A4TGyOZFRLWO3KC0%2Bz0g%3D%3D|tkp%3ABFBM9vSkytdg

Hi No Ideal. Just wonder where you  can find the right size needle's  of 1.5, 1.75. or .021,.03  and .036 or .56mm, 78mm .94 mm. I have looked for those sizes but can not find them. If you know where they are I would be happy in buying some. Thank you in advance. Gary

[Kevin Kenny]

I will get my vet to locate them in due course. The ones he gave me produce a treenail size .040 which is just under 2” with a size that says 16 G. The smaller ones i got are 20G so i am hoping to get 17,18,19 and see what size  they produce. Ill keep you in the loop.

best 

kevin

[dvm27]

The larger the needle gage the smaller the diameter. If you are trying to create a 1" scale treenail try using a 21 gage needle. The inner diameter is 0.5 mm. For a 3/4" treenail try a 22 gage needle. The medical or veterinary grade ones do dull quickly and I suspect it will take many needles to make the thousand(s) of treenails you need. You may wish to purchase stainless steel tubing such as https://www.grainger.com/category/pipe-hose-tube-fittings/tube-products/tubing-products/stainless-steel-tubing?attrs=Wall+Thickness|22+ga&filters=attrs and make them yourself.

 

With the Byrnes drawplate I can make hundreds of bamboo treenails in ten minutes down to 0.018". With boxwood I can comfortably draw down to 0.020" without too much loss. Depends on the grain structure of juniper if you can draw it that fine.

Edited August 20, 2022 by dvm27

[Kevin Kenny]

Greg

right now I am using the draw plate with Juniper but experimenting with the needles. I just ordered some 18 gauge needles and have some 20 gauge needles but they quickly clogged up. I will be using the draw plate for this exercise.

kevin

[Kevin Kenny]

Ordered the sharpening stones on Lee Valley. Started the treenails, now only 9200 to go.

[No Idea]

11 hours ago, Kevin Kenny said:

I hate using pseudonym, any way. “no idea” have you figured out the various needle sizes that would produce the correct size treenails.

in 1/4” scale i am looking for 1”, 1.5” and 1.75”, in imperial measurement that would be .021, .03 & .036 and in metric it would be .56, .78 & .94. 
 

once i can confirm these numbers and find a good supplier i would post this data in the video description with the appropriate link.  Also, have you figured out the best speed for the drill press. Its quite clear to me that if the speed get above 1000 RPM the needle get to jot. I started lubricating  with silicon and it works great. I even sprayed the wood and all the burning stopped. 
kevin

Hi Kevin - I don't know if this is what you and Gary are looking for but here is a link that gives you the OD and ID of needles.  I guess that this is a good starting point.  It's only a guide as in practice I have found that using a 16g needle gives me 0.9mm tree nails?

 

https://www.hamiltoncompany.com/laboratory-products/needles-knowledge/needle-gauge-chart

 

I also run my mill at about 1000 rpm and have found this to be the optimal speed.  If you get burning try dropping the wood into water for 5 mins before cutting the tree nails as this has also worked for me too.

 

Cheers Mark

[Kevin Kenny]

Thats exactly what we needed Mark. I have added it to the description of the video. 

[Kevin Kenny]

This round of treenails is actually 6840. Just to be correct.

[Kevin Kenny]

Well, look what i found in the duper market this morning.

[AON]

As we say up here.... now you're cooking with natural gas.  Quarter them, draw them and stuff them!

😉

[Kevin Kenny]

I do not find they quarter very well. Is there a special technique or blade to get it to strip all the way down? 

[AON]

Refer to the PDF.  There is a short part with photos on how easy it is to do.... after I was shown how.

 

You wouldn't believe the dumb ways I tried.

[garyshipwright]

Alan where is the PDF? I seem to be having a slight problem finding it. Thank you sir. Gary

[AON]

Post #649

[stuglo]

have you tried using bamboo tooth picks? they fit into draw plate and can be drawn or pushed while rotating in a drill

[Kevin Kenny]

Strange you should ask. It was only yesterday i found some in the supermarket and purchased three packs. I am now experimenting with them. 

[Kevin Kenny]

2120 installed so far.

[AON]

Yikes!

How are your eyes holding up?

👀 

[dvm27]

May I suggest you apply 1-2 layers of Tamiya tape to the keel, stem and sternpost before fairing in the treenails. An errant swipe of the sandpaper can create scratches that are difficult to remove later.

[druxey]

That was quick! Well done, Kevin.

[Kevin Kenny]

 

[Kevin Kenny]