Kevin Kenny Posted August 19, 2022 Author Share #661 Posted August 19, 2022 (edited) Edited August 19, 2022 by Kevin Kenny Had to redo the video on Youtube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kenny Posted August 19, 2022 Author Share #662 Posted August 19, 2022 Hopefully this resolves the problem. James G, mtaylor, AON and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvm27 Posted August 20, 2022 Share #663 Posted August 20, 2022 Vandolay sold special 3/4" cutters for their treenail makers after I inquired about them. I still have them but quite honestly think the Byrnes treenail maker is the easiest and fastest way to make them. I start with bamboo skewers sold ib grocery stores. druxey, tlevine, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote GregwebsiteAdmiralty Modelsmoderator Echo Cross-section buildAdmiralty Models Cross-section BuildFinished buildPegasus, 1776, cross-sectionCurrent buildSpeedwell, 1752 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted August 20, 2022 Share #664 Posted August 20, 2022 I use bamboo skewers from the grocery store. If using bamboo shoots I was told to use the middle pith not the bark. mtaylor 1 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuglo Posted August 20, 2022 Share #665 Posted August 20, 2022 Are you just using the sharpened point then sharpening again for each treenail? If so, it seems more work than producing the required diameter over the whole length, with use of drawplate or "drill" method. Quote current build- Swan ,scratch on shelf,Rattlesnake, Alert semi scratch,Le Coureur,, Fubbs scratch completed: nostrum mare,victory(Corel), san felipe, sovereign of the seas, sicilian cargo boat ,royal yacht caroline, armed pinnace, charles morgan whaler, galilee boat, wappen von hamburg, la reale (Dusek), amerigo vespucci, oneida (semi scratch) diane, great harry-elizabethan galleon (semi scratch), agammemnon, hanna (scratch).19th cent. shipyard diorama (Constructo), picket boat, victory bow section Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kenny Posted August 20, 2022 Author Share #666 Posted August 20, 2022 Stuglo, i assume you are asking about the needles used to make the tree nails. The sharpened point was cut off and the blunt end sharpened evenly. This was used to drill the wood and i was able to fill the blank with 65 holes each having a treenail in it. This took about 2 minutes. Its still early days as these needles cut 2” treenails. I need to get smaller needles before i sign off on this method. In the mean time i am using treenails made on the jim Byrnes draw plate. mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Idea Posted August 20, 2022 Share #667 Posted August 20, 2022 56 minutes ago, Kevin Kenny said: Stuglo, i assume you are asking about the needles used to make the tree nails. The sharpened point was cut off and the blunt end sharpened evenly. This was used to drill the wood and i was able to fill the blank with 65 holes each having a treenail in it. This took about 2 minutes. Its still early days as these needles cut 2” treenails. I need to get smaller needles before i sign off on this method. In the mean time i am using treenails made on the jim Byrnes draw plate. Hi Kevin - I'm also trying this needle method and I'm getting great results thanks to the thread on here originally started by vaddoc. I have found that by taking his advice and using body piercing needles instead of hypodermic needle's the results are much better. Just google body piercing needles and you will see what I mean. Here's and example - Also I have found that just putting a 30 degree angle or there abouts on the end of the needles works great. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252808332323?hash=item3adc8d0423:g:gfgAAOSwxEpYxC5Y&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA8E%2BnzGprgTxciozHiEvBmvsFdXyWpfpBmyGeotGRlNuJL6v0ubwGUBsM%2B86sfQUiUGWDaSqhoMIFOErXTy86WmaGG%2BLBXBPfVNStypmSOx87Es3o%2BU2q5X0f9jl96uW9SC0AWN%2FYSlGTjcld34grvzItmoirt2gN60BKo%2FmDIAGZAKLqDLH7LgqBa2CM%2F7XXjCe%2BpOjBGVVSYfQRoym5X1d9mRoPY8vx%2Bm1pJn4AuNpNKqC%2B42hROWHrlxUTY%2BbK3VjJ9IhlGBuEMIxxBc31VapuRIjfopXurPuQWeQYA9wxg7A4TGyOZFRLWO3KC0%2Bz0g%3D%3D|tkp%3ABFBM9vSkytdg mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kenny Posted August 20, 2022 Author Share #668 Posted August 20, 2022 (edited) I hate using pseudonym, any way. “no idea” have you figured out the various needle sizes that would produce the correct size treenails. in 1/4” scale i am looking for 1”, 1.5” and 1.75”, in imperial measurement that would be .021, .03 & .036 and in metric it would be .56, .78 & .94. once i can confirm these numbers and find a good supplier i would post this data in the video description with the appropriate link. Also, have you figured out the best speed for the drill press. Its quite clear to me that if the speed get above 1000 RPM the needle get to jot. I started lubricating with silicon and it works great. I even sprayed the wood and all the burning stopped. kevin Edited August 20, 2022 by Kevin Kenny Wanted to add some more content. mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyshipwright Posted August 20, 2022 Share #669 Posted August 20, 2022 4 hours ago, No Idea said: Hi Kevin - I'm also trying this needle method and I'm getting great results thanks to the thread on here originally started by vaddoc. I have found that by taking his advice and using body piercing needles instead of hypodermic needle's the results are much better. Just google body piercing needles and you will see what I mean. Here's and example - Also I have found that just putting a 30 degree angle or there abouts on the end of the needles works great. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252808332323?hash=item3adc8d0423:g:gfgAAOSwxEpYxC5Y&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA8E%2BnzGprgTxciozHiEvBmvsFdXyWpfpBmyGeotGRlNuJL6v0ubwGUBsM%2B86sfQUiUGWDaSqhoMIFOErXTy86WmaGG%2BLBXBPfVNStypmSOx87Es3o%2BU2q5X0f9jl96uW9SC0AWN%2FYSlGTjcld34grvzItmoirt2gN60BKo%2FmDIAGZAKLqDLH7LgqBa2CM%2F7XXjCe%2BpOjBGVVSYfQRoym5X1d9mRoPY8vx%2Bm1pJn4AuNpNKqC%2B42hROWHrlxUTY%2BbK3VjJ9IhlGBuEMIxxBc31VapuRIjfopXurPuQWeQYA9wxg7A4TGyOZFRLWO3KC0%2Bz0g%3D%3D|tkp%3ABFBM9vSkytdg Hi No Ideal. Just wonder where you can find the right size needle's of 1.5, 1.75. or .021,.03 and .036 or .56mm, 78mm .94 mm. I have looked for those sizes but can not find them. If you know where they are I would be happy in buying some. Thank you in advance. Gary mtaylor 1 Quote HMS Montague/Alfred class by Gary B 74 gun ship built in 1779 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kenny Posted August 20, 2022 Author Share #670 Posted August 20, 2022 I will get my vet to locate them in due course. The ones he gave me produce a treenail size .040 which is just under 2” with a size that says 16 G. The smaller ones i got are 20G so i am hoping to get 17,18,19 and see what size they produce. Ill keep you in the loop. best kevin mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvm27 Posted August 20, 2022 Share #671 Posted August 20, 2022 (edited) The larger the needle gage the smaller the diameter. If you are trying to create a 1" scale treenail try using a 21 gage needle. The inner diameter is 0.5 mm. For a 3/4" treenail try a 22 gage needle. The medical or veterinary grade ones do dull quickly and I suspect it will take many needles to make the thousand(s) of treenails you need. You may wish to purchase stainless steel tubing such as https://www.grainger.com/category/pipe-hose-tube-fittings/tube-products/tubing-products/stainless-steel-tubing?attrs=Wall+Thickness|22+ga&filters=attrs and make them yourself. With the Byrnes drawplate I can make hundreds of bamboo treenails in ten minutes down to 0.018". With boxwood I can comfortably draw down to 0.020" without too much loss. Depends on the grain structure of juniper if you can draw it that fine. Edited August 20, 2022 by dvm27 John Cheevers, druxey, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote GregwebsiteAdmiralty Modelsmoderator Echo Cross-section buildAdmiralty Models Cross-section BuildFinished buildPegasus, 1776, cross-sectionCurrent buildSpeedwell, 1752 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kenny Posted August 21, 2022 Author Share #672 Posted August 21, 2022 Greg right now I am using the draw plate with Juniper but experimenting with the needles. I just ordered some 18 gauge needles and have some 20 gauge needles but they quickly clogged up. I will be using the draw plate for this exercise. kevin dvm27 and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kenny Posted August 21, 2022 Author Share #673 Posted August 21, 2022 Ordered the sharpening stones on Lee Valley. Started the treenails, now only 9200 to go. John Cheevers, GrandpaPhil, dvm27 and 7 others 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Idea Posted August 21, 2022 Share #674 Posted August 21, 2022 11 hours ago, Kevin Kenny said: I hate using pseudonym, any way. “no idea” have you figured out the various needle sizes that would produce the correct size treenails. in 1/4” scale i am looking for 1”, 1.5” and 1.75”, in imperial measurement that would be .021, .03 & .036 and in metric it would be .56, .78 & .94. once i can confirm these numbers and find a good supplier i would post this data in the video description with the appropriate link. Also, have you figured out the best speed for the drill press. Its quite clear to me that if the speed get above 1000 RPM the needle get to jot. I started lubricating with silicon and it works great. I even sprayed the wood and all the burning stopped. kevin Hi Kevin - I don't know if this is what you and Gary are looking for but here is a link that gives you the OD and ID of needles. I guess that this is a good starting point. It's only a guide as in practice I have found that using a 16g needle gives me 0.9mm tree nails? https://www.hamiltoncompany.com/laboratory-products/needles-knowledge/needle-gauge-chart I also run my mill at about 1000 rpm and have found this to be the optimal speed. If you get burning try dropping the wood into water for 5 mins before cutting the tree nails as this has also worked for me too. Cheers Mark bruce d and mtaylor 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kenny Posted August 21, 2022 Author Share #675 Posted August 21, 2022 Thats exactly what we needed Mark. I have added it to the description of the video. No Idea and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kenny Posted August 21, 2022 Author Share #676 Posted August 21, 2022 This round of treenails is actually 6840. Just to be correct. mtaylor and druxey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kenny Posted August 21, 2022 Author Share #677 Posted August 21, 2022 Well, look what i found in the duper market this morning. mtaylor, KentM and GrandpaPhil 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted August 21, 2022 Share #678 Posted August 21, 2022 As we say up here.... now you're cooking with natural gas. Quarter them, draw them and stuff them! 😉 mtaylor 1 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kenny Posted August 21, 2022 Author Share #679 Posted August 21, 2022 I do not find they quarter very well. Is there a special technique or blade to get it to strip all the way down? mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted August 21, 2022 Share #680 Posted August 21, 2022 Refer to the PDF. There is a short part with photos on how easy it is to do.... after I was shown how. You wouldn't believe the dumb ways I tried. mtaylor 1 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyshipwright Posted August 21, 2022 Share #681 Posted August 21, 2022 Alan where is the PDF? I seem to be having a slight problem finding it. Thank you sir. Gary mtaylor 1 Quote HMS Montague/Alfred class by Gary B 74 gun ship built in 1779 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted August 21, 2022 Share #682 Posted August 21, 2022 Post #649 mtaylor 1 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuglo Posted August 22, 2022 Share #683 Posted August 22, 2022 have you tried using bamboo tooth picks? they fit into draw plate and can be drawn or pushed while rotating in a drill bruce d and mtaylor 2 Quote current build- Swan ,scratch on shelf,Rattlesnake, Alert semi scratch,Le Coureur,, Fubbs scratch completed: nostrum mare,victory(Corel), san felipe, sovereign of the seas, sicilian cargo boat ,royal yacht caroline, armed pinnace, charles morgan whaler, galilee boat, wappen von hamburg, la reale (Dusek), amerigo vespucci, oneida (semi scratch) diane, great harry-elizabethan galleon (semi scratch), agammemnon, hanna (scratch).19th cent. shipyard diorama (Constructo), picket boat, victory bow section Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kenny Posted August 22, 2022 Author Share #684 Posted August 22, 2022 Strange you should ask. It was only yesterday i found some in the supermarket and purchased three packs. I am now experimenting with them. mtaylor and bruce d 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kenny Posted August 25, 2022 Author Share #685 Posted August 25, 2022 2120 installed so far. GrandpaPhil, bruce d, Prowler901 and 9 others 9 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted August 25, 2022 Share #686 Posted August 25, 2022 Yikes! How are your eyes holding up? 👀 mtaylor and bruce d 1 1 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvm27 Posted August 25, 2022 Share #687 Posted August 25, 2022 May I suggest you apply 1-2 layers of Tamiya tape to the keel, stem and sternpost before fairing in the treenails. An errant swipe of the sandpaper can create scratches that are difficult to remove later. tlevine, druxey, yvesvidal and 3 others 5 1 Quote GregwebsiteAdmiralty Modelsmoderator Echo Cross-section buildAdmiralty Models Cross-section BuildFinished buildPegasus, 1776, cross-sectionCurrent buildSpeedwell, 1752 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted August 26, 2022 Share #688 Posted August 26, 2022 That was quick! Well done, Kevin. mtaylor and dvm27 2 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kenny Posted August 27, 2022 Author Share #689 Posted August 27, 2022 mtaylor, AON, James G and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kenny Posted August 28, 2022 Author Share #690 Posted August 28, 2022 AON, No Idea, mtaylor and 5 others 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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