Comparison of Victory kit manufacturers

[dchrismiller]

Hello,

I am considering HMS Victory for my next project. I've decided that before I begin the Victory, I'd like some input from others who've done one.

 

I would appreciate your input and frank appraisal of your kit, the manufacturer, and whether you would use them again if starting over. If not, then which?

 

I would use a kit as a basis but would likely engage in some bashing to enhance authenticity. I would also likely use a good reference like Longridge or one of the many others. Ideas on resources are greedily accepted.

 

Input on wood quality; fitting (wood and metal) quality; plans quality (completeness, readability, accuracy); instruction (readability and accuracy of descriptions, quality of illustrations); accuracy of description of masting and rigging; etc.

 

Any input that you would like to share would be most gratefully acknowledged.

 

Many thanks,

 

Chris Miller

[marktiedens]

I have built both the Mantua version,& the Caldercraft version - there is no comparison. The Caldercraft version is by far the best - 18 sheets of plans & good instructions with many illustrations. The wood is a little better than average for a kit & is CNC cut instead of laser cut so only a little sanding on the edges is all that is needed to clean them up - no laser char to deal with. Any wood parts that have edges showing are solid wood - not plywood. Lots of well done photo etch parts & crisply cast metal parts.It is more expensive than the other Victory kits on the market,but well worth it. The Mantua version could be made into a good model,though with a LOT of bashing. Or you could wait - Amati is supposed to be coming out with a Victory kit that is rumored to be the best yet.

 

Mark

[mtdoramike]

I built the Artesania Latina Victory and if you can't afford the $1200.00 for the Caldercraft, then the Latina version In my opinion would be the next best thing. One thing I liked about the Artesania Latina was their wood choices so if you chose to build it natural, the wood included in the kit would turn out beautiful and the pre-made sides of the Caldercraft kit turned me off. The Latina kit you have to make your own with planking. Finally the big difference was the price which was about half the price at about $600.00. The price was a big factor for me since I built this model as a donation to my local library. So the less money I had into the kit the better for me. If I had it to do all over again, I would still build the Latina version, it was a beautiful model when finished. I also did a bit of bashing on her as well and used the "Anatomy of the Ship Victory" as a reference guide as well as other materials. I also was lucky enough to have found a source in England that had a certified piece of Victory wood that I got from them and used it to make several things on the Model such as anchor davits, anchor collars and numerous other items that was left unpainted in their natural wood form to show the beauty of the Victory wood.

 

The Mantua Victory version was touted to be the best and most accurate of the Victory kits back in the late 70's and 80's if I remember right. But that was a lot of years ago and kits have come and gone since then. What is your skill level Chris, the Victory is one of the most challenging models on the market to build and the investment in time alone which is on average 2-10 years to finish her depending on time spent working on her. I finished mine in a year and a half. But I was really moving on it and would spend 40+ hours a week at times working on it.

 

mike

[ccoyle]

Check this thread for additional discussion on this topic.

[Jaxboat]

Everyone is waiting for he Amati. Nothing from Chris Watton on it for some time. One big question is will you have a space to display it when finished or will you have to build an addition to your house!  I believe Chris also designed the Caldercraft Victory so he would end up with the two best models,

Jaxboat

[dchrismiller]

Thanks to all of you guys for the input and opinions. Overall size will have to be weighed but all the kits are sizable.

 

One of you asked my skill level. I guess I would classify myself as upper intermediate perhaps. I've done a Constitution that I'm really happy with and have received many nice comments. Just did a Mayflower in mahogany for my daughter and her children. (Had thought of doing the Charles W. Morgan but, then, thought better of it as I would have to explain to a 7 and 9 year-old what a whaler did and how they did it!) Also have just finished a heavily bashed Amati (almost a scratch build) of a Viking longboat. Looks great and I feel the owner will like it.

 

I am wondering about the negative comment regarding the "pre-made" sides of the Caldercraft. What's that all about? I don't understand what Caldercraft has done.

 

Chris

[mtdoramike]

I'm not bashing caldercraft for the pre-made sides. I'm sure some folks find them very helpful, but I don't. I prefer to make my own out of planking because of the few models that I have built with the pre-made sides just seemed to need too much tweaking and fillers to suit me. The good points of the pre-made sides are the gun ports are pre-cut and most of the time positioned properly. Then all you have to do on the second layer of planking of cutting out the second layer of planking out for the gun ports. That is my only personal issue with Caldercraft, well that and the price. I hope this clarifies my earlier post.

 

mike   

[dchrismiller]

Mike,

 

Thanks for the explanation and for the other feedback, as well. Caldercraft has a steep price, that's for sure.

 

Chris

[hollowneck]

Chris,

 

I have built and modified several Caldercraft kits as well as several of the Amati Victory Models kits. Caldercraft's Vic is old now (circa 2000), but it still is regarded the best of the Vic kits - if you can afford it.

 

Here is a helpful link: www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/.

 

This UK-based reseller has excellent service and low prices (an accurate floating exchange rate on current currency rates). Shipping will not be inexpensive (the kit is HEAVY), but this firm knows the best way to make sure you receive it safely - and without U.S. Customs delays. The Caldercraft model's designer, Chris Watton, is a master and has designed a newer kit of the Victory for Amati/Victory (there is an extensive thread here on MSW that details his efforts, just search either Watton or Victory). However, this new kit is currently unavailable and has been eagerly anticipated for about 2 years now. As of this writing there is still no news on its availability or expected price (expensive, more than Caldercraft).

 

I modify my kit projects extensively, even the "better" kits. On an involved build like the Victory, one of the most important aspects of the kit is the quality of the plans. Chris Watton is a master draftsman and the near two decade old plans for Caldercraft's Vic are still quite good: reasonably accurate and detailed, with good rigging details. His plans for the Amati/Vic (when it appears!), will be CAD drafted by him and likely be superb.

 

I hope some of this will be helpful - and useful. Especially for your wallet.

 

Ron

 

PS: No, I don't work for Cornwall Model Boats.

[dchrismiller]

One last question and then I'll quit.

 

I've seen the Caldercraft model shown with a stock # of CC 9014 and C 9014. The former is the one seen on most US websites with a price of about $1,200. The latter is shown on at least one UK website at $800.

 

Is there likely any difference?

 

Chris

[dchrismiller]

Ron,

Thanks for the heads up re: Cornwall. As it happens, I spotted their price and even went to the trouble of asking for a price verification. Amazing difference.

Your info helps me a great deal in price and handling. Thanks.

Chris

[dafi]

I just would mention one thing - de not forget the Heller version ;-)

 

in my humble opinion still one of the best sailing ship kits if one gives a bit of TLC!

 

XXXDAn

[hollowneck]

Chris,

 

You're most welcome. Glad you checked-out Cornwall. Keep an eye on the US posted price as it moves with the exchange rate, currently listing the Vic at $801. As I recommended previously, opt for the standard Royal Mail delivery (through the USPS here). This is a real bargain, a direct result of the ill-advised Brexit.

-----------

PS to dafi: the Heller kit is excellent too, especially with all your upgrades and extensive notes here (and other forums) on bashing it. If Chris is looking for a plastic build then there really is no other choice. However, for a wood(en) model kit, it's Caldercraft until Amati's Watton-designed Victory becomes available.

 

Good luck- don't forget to search for member builds here!

Ron

[dchrismiller]

Ron,

 

Any thoughts about when the Amati kit by Watton might arrive? I've seen nothing definitive.

 

Chris

[Ulises Victoria]

Ron,

 

Any thoughts about when the Amati kit by Watton might arrive? I've seen nothing definitive.

 

Chris

Because there is nothing definitive. I am one of those eagerly expecting this kit to come into production. At 1/64 it will be a behemoth. I don't know if I will ever build it, but still, I want it.

[hollowneck]

Chris,

No idea - zip - nada. I wish there was some news, one way or the other. I also have queried the owner of Cornwall Model Boats to keep me updated on news from Amati when the Vic actually happens.

 

When distributor/resellers know something, then us (internationally-aware) modelers will get the info pretty quickly. Like all manufacturers, Amati will fill the "pipeline" when they actually have something to ship.

 

For now, those of us who want to build this monster just need to keep a dry towel handy...to catch the drool.  

 

Ron

[gsprings]

Chris just resurfaced this week with news that the Victory is done. Check out this thread for news and pics of the finished model:

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/985-amati-and-chris-watton/page-33

[Gentlegiant]

I like the Deagostini instructions for the HMS Victory But i don't know about the kit itself??

[Richardjjs]

On ‎24‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 7:34 PM, marktiedens said:

I have built both the Mantua version,& the Caldercraft version - there is no comparison. The Caldercraft version is by far the best - 18 sheets of plans & good instructions with many illustrations. The wood is a little better than average for a kit & is CNC cut instead of laser cut so only a little sanding on the edges is all that is needed to clean them up - no laser char to deal with. Any wood parts that have edges showing are solid wood - not plywood. Lots of well done photo etch parts & crisply cast metal parts.It is more expensive than the other Victory kits on the market,but well worth it. The Mantua version could be made into a good model,though with a LOT of bashing. Or you could wait - Amati is supposed to be coming out with a Victory kit that is rumored to be the best yet.

 

Mark

Agree about the Caldercraft one it is superb but finding many silly errors. Gun Ports appear to big but it is nearly 3 times the price (and bigger)
Wales poition is hazy - it really needs more info about the stem and stern starting and ending positions
Panarts is nearly half the price soif you want to do a lot yourself go for that one
Amarti/Victory Models IS being produced 1/64 so will be very big

Needs a drawing of the bow before adding parts

[Richardjjs]

On ‎18‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 0:02 PM, Gentlegiant said:

I like the Deagostini instructions for the HMS Victory But i don't know about the kit itself??

Superb Instructions BUT
Deck planking shows 2 step. THIS IS WRONG and should be 4 step on all but the Poop desk
Idea of using pencil for the edges of the planks is as good a way as any on this small scale.
Dont forget if you neede to carrry across the deck fixings if you have them on the ends.
Will not be marking the nails as they are really small

And could do with some plans