Help with Rattlesnake wood

[Eddie]

Hi I have the plans for the Rattlesnake by Harold M. Hahn and im looking to Start work on it what I need is the timber. This will be my first time at scratch building a ship. I dont know what kind of timber or what sizes to get I was looking for different kinds of wood I dont want the ship to be one colour could someone help me. I was looking for something like this guys but I cant ask him because he hasn't been on for over 2 years http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/288-rattlesnake-by-pasi-ahopelto-scale-148-us-privateer-1781-lumberyard-timbering-set-based-on-hahns-plans/ I dont have a band saw so I cant rip pieces of off a big lump of wood.

 

Thanks Eddie

Edited January 29, 2017 by Eddie

[mikiek]

Eddie - there's never any harm in reviving an old thread. The poster may not hit MSW anymore but I know some of the repliers are still active. They might give you a direction. You could always try PMing the poster. I believe you get an email when you have received a PM. He may reply, or not. You won't know if you don't try.

[KenW]

I've never built a model from scratch, but there are a couple of sites that can supply you with different kinds of wood.

One is Crown Timberyard, and also I've heard good things about "Wood Project Source".  Both have links on the MSW home page.

You can always send an email message to Chuck Passaro, he's really great with offering help.  His handle is "Chuck".

Have fun.

[Chuck Seiler]

Eddie,

 

    What is your experience level and what tools do you have?  Both sources mentioned by Ken are great.  They offer both sheets or strips.  If you have a miniature table saw, sheets may be the way to go.  That's what I do.

[Kishmul]

And, where on the planet are you?

[KenW]

I agree with Mr. Seiler.  I can't imagine doing a scratch build without power tools.

Cheers.

[mtaylor]

As I recall, Pasi used the Lumberyard timbering set.   But.. have a look at the front page for sponsors or go here (pinned topics at the top) for wood suppliers: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/forum/20-wood-discussion/

[Eddie]

Hi all

 

Mikiek

Will do thanks

 

KenW

I'll email them

 

Chuck Seiler

I have a Proxxon table saw and will be getting a scroll saw soon just looking for what brand to get and I've been looking at getting a Sherline mill to. I meant to say I dont have a band saw I edited my post. i have built a few of kits and wanted to try scratch building.

 

Kishmul

I'm in Victoria, Australia but I dont care where in the world I get the timber from just need help with what colour and sizes to order 

 

mtaylor

Thanks

Edited January 29, 2017 by Eddie

[mikiek]

Eddie - there is a Model Shipways version of Rattlesnake. It is available from Model Expo. If you look it up you will see that you can down load the instructions and materials list for free. I'm not suggesting you build this kit but the documentation may give you a hint of what you will need. Keep in mind the scale may be different than what you had planned.

 

As far as color (type) of wood, decide if you are going to paint or stain your build. If paint, then you don't need exotic or dark colored wood like walnut or mahogany.

[Chuck Seiler]

Eddie,

 

    I think a scroll saw is essential for this project in order to cut the frames/futtocks.  I have a crappy-assed Dremel scroll saw that I used to cut the frames for the WASHINGTON (before I shelved it).  It was okay,but not great.

 

    I have the MS RATTLESNAKE kit and plan to replace the basswood with hardwood...so I have given the question of 'which woods' some thought. 

 

    I am a big fan of boxwood.  I was going to use boxwood above the wales, with a natural finish on the 'yellow/buff' area and paint the black area black.  In the pasted I have either used or experimented with ebony, ebony stain, black wood dye and black paint.  I was not a fan of black paint until I started using the 'coachman method' Chuck P. talks about in either his CONFEDERACY or WINCHELSEA build log.  When done right, it is exquisite.

 

    I love boxwood,however, based on some recent discussions,I might try Alaskan Cedar from Wood Projects Resources.

 

    For decks I usually use holly, but that is getting harder to come by.  My next project may involve maple.  You won't be planking much below the wale, but where you do, I would use holly or maple.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Chuck Seiler

[Chuck Seiler]

    You also asked about sizes...

 

    Given that you have a table saw, I would go with sheets.  I like to go with 3 inches wide where I can.  Eeking out that last plank on the sheet is a pain and you have to do it less often with 3 inches rather than 2.

 

    Thickness?  I recall a discussion somewhere that talked about 1/16" vs 3/64" thickness for planking at the scale you are working.  I have found 1/16" to be good.

[Jaager]

If you are willing to pay for imported wood, then

a domestic alternative may be to see if there is

a shop near you that sells milled hardwood to

cabinet makers and wood workers.

Your domestic equivalent of Acer sp. (Maple)

Pyrus sp. (Pear) Malus (Apple)  Prunus (Cherry) would be ideal.

It is just that most of these are trees that are not large enough

to interest full size wood workers.

You want something with a grain that most would consider boring -

no contrast.

 

The species in the US named Ash and Gum are probably

not what we want but the domestic OZ species using these names

look promising.  If you find something with closed pore, tight and straight grain

- it may be less expensive to have them rip and plane 30 - 40 bdf than

import something. 

 

A 9 inch or 10 inch bench top bandsaw with 1/8" blade may substitute well 

for a scroll saw.  You can also use it for little league resawing with a wider blade.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Jaager

[Eddie]

Hi all

 

mikiek

No Im not going to paint or stain her just going to leave the timber raw with some sort of clear coat over her.

 

Chuck Seiler

Ok 3 inch sheets. I'll go with the 1/16" for the planking. I do like the look of ebony and I'll have a look at Chuck P build log for the coachman method thanks.

 

Jaager

Thanks

[Chuck Seiler]

Ebony is nice, but it is such a pain to bend...particularly at the bow.  The coachman method is, basically, a lot of coats (8, 10 or so) of very thin paint, buffed out between coats.  It is a lot more work, but it is really nice.

[davec]

Hi Eddie - I've built the model shipways rattlesnake replacing all the wood, and a Hannah from Hahn plans.   On these models and my current project I have been using the same wood that Harold Hahn used - the contrast is really nice.  I use Castillo boxwood (not European like Hahn did - not easily available any more) for the frames and main planking, ebony for the wales, holly for the deck and lower hull planking, and swiss pear for contrast.  

 

If you use holly, be careful with what finish you use, as a lot of the ones that are beautiful on darker woods will turn the white holly yellow.  It needs a quick drying finish that does not penetrate the wood. If you don't want to bend ebony (a pain, but not impossible), you can get great results with dye on holly or pear.

 

I have a table and band saw, so I rip billets from blocks of wood and use a thickness sander to bring to final thickness.  This gives the flexibility to makes strips of any dimension.  Crown Timberyard seems to sell premilled sheets and strips of these woods.  You may need some reference books to figure out the sizes you will need.  You will need a lot of whatever dimension the frames are - the Hahn method is quick, but wastes a lot of wood on the frames. If there is a list of wood in one of the timbering sets you could probably work off that.  I think the lumberyard does timbering sets for all the Hahn models, and if you call them might be able to put one together in the woods you want.

 

Rattlesnake is a beautiful ship - best of luck with your project.

 

Dave

[uss frolick]

Wood of the Loquat tree is the best wood ever, IMHO, if you can find it down there.

 

Barring that, you can't go wrong with Apple. Use the slightly darker heartwood for the frames and the lighter sapwood for the planking. It makes a sharp cut, carves well, but bends with minimal complaint. It smells sweet when you saw it too.

 

Food companies seem to be smoking a lot of bacon with "apple-wood" these days, if their marketing is to be believed ...

[Eddie]

Hi all

 

Chuck Seiler

I look at Chuck P Winchelsea and it does look good the black but I'm thinking I might give the ebony a go if all else fails I'll give the black painting a go thanks.

 

Davec

Thanks for the colours. You said swiss pear for contrast where would I use it?

[Eddie]

Thanks uss frolick

[Eddie]

Hi Chuck Seiler what would you recommend for the masts?

[Chuck Seiler]

Leave them off. 

 

But if you must (I must, I must), I would go with boxwood.

[davec]

Hi Eddie - use the swiss pear wherever you think it would look good. I used it on gun carriages, some of the upper planking, hatches, and some other deck fittings. It contrasts nicely with the other woods.  The longboat in my avatar and post #29 in my build log show the different woods together.

 

I used boxwood for masts and ebony for spars.  If you are using boxwood, either buy the strips, or prepare to have to cut multiple pieces.  When I was ripping my own boxwood for masts, I got a lot of pieces that weren't straight.

 

Looking forward to seeing your build.

 

Dave

Edited January 31, 2017 by davec

[Eddie]

Thanks everyone your been alot of help.

[tlevine]

Since you have the plans, start off by determining your scale.  Once you have done that you can determine the frame thickness from the plans.  Do the plans have the frames drawn out?  If so, make copies in the correct scale and draw in your floor and futtock lines.  Now draw out the individual parts, cut them out and lay them out on a 2" or 3" wide board.  You will have to do this eventually anyhow.  You can now determine how much framing wood is necessary.  Do the same thing for the deck beams.  There will be enough scrap to cover carlings and ledges.  How much planking are you going to put on?  As a rough gauge, I would buy 3 times the surface area you are covering.  This will allow for splining rather than edge bending.  Thickness is also determined from the plans.

 

As for color, it comes down to aesthetics.  Do you prefer blonde, pale yellow, light brown, darker brown or pink?  That translates into costello, pau marfin, pear, apple or swiss pear.  Holly can be any color from dishwater blonde to stark white.  Any wood will darken when a finish is applied, so take that into consideration.  And different finishes will affect the wood differently.  For example, look at the decking on my Atalanta and compare it with the hull planking.  Both of these woods are holly but they came from different suppliers and had a different finish applied.

 

Do yourself a favor and avoid ebony.  It's just not worth it for the hassle.  There are so many ways of getting black wales that are consistent in color. Check the various scratch logs for suggestions.  You could also brouse the various scratch logs for color combinations you like and send a PM to the builder asking what they used.

[Jaager]

 

 Do the plans have the frames drawn out?  If so, make copies in the correct scale and draw in your floor and futtock lines.

 

I am not sure if it is a anti counterfeiting requirement but there is a good chance that a direct copy using the

common 3in1 scanner/printers will not be identical to the original.  I must scale up 102.5% for identity..

[Eddie]

Thanks tlevine and jaager