US Brig Syren by David Rice - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64

[Elijah]

Nice build! Its too bad about the bad wood. About the planking, I think the only issue with glueing three together is that it doesn't allow you to easily make the but shift pattern. I guess you could score a line on the plank and draw in that line with a very sharp pencil.

[David Rice]

Questions:

 

1. The Gun Port Framing material calls for 1/4 x 3/16 Basswood. That seems to be a very large piece of wood for the job, and will require much sanding later.  I have some 3/16 x 3/16 material that looks to me to be better suited for the frame.  What do you think?

 

2. The Gun Port Sill has some interesting curves.  Would there be any advantage to steaming, and pre-bending (curving) the Gun Port Framing Material onto a jig.  Then cut each individual piece to the required length and angle? 

 

 

[Heronguy]

Hi David,

 

Have you looked at Rich's Syren build log  (HIPEXEC) posts 70 to 82.  They document his approach to using the 1/4" material.  

 

It'd be interesting to see if prebending 3/16" then trimming them for each pair of bulkhead extensions gives you a solution too.  Why don't you give it a quick try?

 

 

[David Rice]

2 hours ago, Heronguy said:

Hi David,

 

Have you looked at Rich's Syren build log  (HIPEXEC) posts 70 to 82.  They document his approach to using the 1/4" material.  

 

It'd be interesting to see if prebending 3/16" then trimming them for each pair of bulkhead extensions gives you a solution too.  Why don't you give it a quick try?

 

 

I have been looking at Rich's approach.  I have material soaking.

[David Rice]

Just like going Diving. Spent too much time underwater and you get the bends.

[Heronguy]

Good joke David!

 

Is your plywood hull form just being used for this task or will you be using it more?

[David Rice]

51 minutes ago, Heronguy said:

Good joke David!

 

Is your plywood hull form just being used for this task or will you be using it more?

I presume I will use it when planking.

[Heronguy]

It'll work up near deck level at least.  

 

It's great to see your steady progress on the build - I wish my builds weren't so start and stop at this time of the year!  I did cut the rabbet on my basswood bulkhead former.  I also did with the the original plywood version that was replaced by the basswood.  I thought that'd be a good warm up. I'll probably put the bulkheads on each of the 2 formers as well but unlikely I'd try to plank both hulls!  Half of the stern forms that came came on the original plywood sheet literally disintegrated when I took them off the sheet!

[David Rice]

12 minutes ago, Heronguy said:

It'll work up near deck level at least.  

 

It's great to see your steady progress on the build - I wish my builds weren't so start and stop at this time of the year!  I did cut the rabbet on my basswood bulkhead former.  I also did with the the original plywood version that was replaced by the basswood.  I thought that'd be a good warm up. I'll probably put the bulkheads on each of the 2 formers as well but unlikely I'd try to plank both hulls!  Half of the stern forms that came came on the original plywood sheet literally disintegrated when I took them off the sheet!

I did the same thing.  I tried to put the frame and bulk heads from the original material together too......I thought I may be able to use it for a scratch model later.  No way.  About a third of the stems were not even whole!  They were hollow!    That red plywood material is totally worthless.

 

I am not normally building much in the summer either, but so far our weather has been cool and rainy.  My garden is complaining.

[David Rice]

Bending the larger 1/4 x 3/16 Basswood Gun Port Framing material was a little more challenging since the larger side 1/4 will be at the top of the Sill.  I needed to soak the 1/4 x 3/16 piece for 24 hours before I could conform it to the jig I made. I'll let it dry in place for a few days.

[David Rice]

After soaking 24 hours and drying 20 hours the 1/4 x 3/16 Basswood Gun Port Framing material looks like a good match.  Now the hard part for me, cutting the right lengths without messing up.  I also double checked my sanding job. I have such a short term memory problem I need to double check everything now in triplicate.

[David Rice]

It rained again today. So I started the Gun Ports.  Colored my Templates.  Found a good use for my mini Alligator Clips. Marked, measured, and made a small template block.  I still don't understand why the larger 1/4 is used, and not  3/16.    I see lots and lots and lots of sanding in my future. Bending the material first does help.

[HIPEXEC]

Yes, David...you will do lots and lots and lots of sanding!

[David Rice]

8 hours ago, HIPEXEC said:

Yes, David...you will do lots and lots and lots of sanding!

I still don't understand why a 1/4 inch and not a 3/16 piece of Basswood is needed. Using 3/16 would sure cut down on the sanding. I am pretty much following your build to see how your tackling the problems. So far I haven't broke anything.  I am sanding now with professional size Emory Boards instead of my sanding sticks. The Emory Boards have a little give to them, which is easier on the more delicate parts when sanding. Less likely to break something.

[Jack12477]

Dave, when I have to do a lot of sanding I start first with my Lee Valley miniature low angle block plane, set the blade to remove the thinnest strip of material, and use it to remove the bulk of the material before switching to sanding blocks/sticks to finish.  When I first saw the plane I thought it was a toy but it is not. I also use if for tapering masts/spars. It sure beats sanding for hours (or days) on end. And it is small enough that I still have plenty of hand control over it.  Pictured below next to its big brother.

 

[David Rice]

20 minutes ago, Jack12477 said:

Dave, when I have to do a lot of sanding I start first with my Lee Valley miniature low angle block plane, set the blade to remove the thinnest strip of material, and use it to remove the bulk of the material before switching to sanding blocks/sticks to finish.  When I first saw the plane I thought it was a toy but it is not. I also use if for tapering masts/spars. It sure beats sanding for hours (or days) on end. And it is small enough that I still have plenty of hand control over it.  Pictured below next to its big brother.

 

Yes, I have one.  However, when sanding parts already glued to the model, these models are just too delicate. I am always afraid of breaking off a part.  It would nice if they had made the Bulkhead stems larger and stronger.  When I make a scratch model, I make those parts a little more beefy. Of course, I don't use crappy plywood either.

[David Rice]

You can pick up the Professional Sized Emory Boards in bulk for around 60 cents each.  The Emory Boards are slightly flexible and easier on the delicate parts. They do not wear out as fast as sanding sticks or sand paper. I don't know how they make them, but unlike sand paper, the grit stays on.  You can also wash them! 

[Jack12477]

Oh I thought you were sanding the planks on the hull, not the bulkheads themselves. Yea, the sanding sticks would work better on those than a plane.

[David Rice]

Progressing slowly on the Gun Ports. 

[David Rice]

After 5 hours of sanding, and seemly getting nowhere, I have decided to breakout the Dremel.

[highgatepainter]

I found the model Syren difficult as you have to cut 48 pieces of basswood in order to make the gun ports. As for the sweep ports one looks as it is directly on a bulkhead. In the plans it looks as if the all the bulkheads have been sanded down as I cannot see any sign of them in the instruction book now that the area has been painted red. I made a mess in that the first temporary plank fixed on was somehow below the deck I just did not see it in the wrong place so all the work I did was wrong so I hope to get a replacement parts and start again. I have built 2 ships before Syren and they were 3 ply wood keels too plus bulkwarks.

[David Rice]

37 minutes ago, highgatepainter said:

I found the model Syren difficult as you have to cut 48 pieces of basswood in order to make the gun ports. As for the sweep ports one looks as it is directly on a bulkhead. In the plans it looks as if the all the bulkheads have been sanded down as I cannot see any sign of them in the instruction book now that the area has been painted red. I made a mess in that the first temporary plank fixed on was somehow below the deck I just did not see it in the wrong place so all the work I did was wrong so I hope to get a replacement parts and start again. I have built 2 ships before Syren and they were 3 ply wood keels too plus bulkwarks.

Thanks.  I am finding all this at this stage looking pretty tricky.  I will be slowing down work on it this summer. 

 

I decided to start a scratch model. 1820-1870 merchant ship (no gun ports).   Not sure if it will be total sail or sail & steam.  I'll work on both models this winter. Switch back and forth.  I like my glue to be very dry before moving to new steps. While one dries, I'll work on the other. I still have not finished the rigging on my HMS Snake.  When the two models reach the rigging stage, I will then work on all three at the same time. That's the plan anyway. 

[David Rice]

I started with the Dremel, but didn't like it because of the confined spaces.  I switched over to the knife and sanding Emory Boards.  The later method worked better.. One side is done. On the facing side the first part of bow section is pretty well finished.  The rest toward the stern section is not.

[JesseLee]

Coming along nicely David.

 

Jesse

[David Rice]

Being out of town, and working on outdoor activities I have not progressed too rapidly. 

[David Rice]

After much work I have the Gun Port Sills, Lintels, Frames about where I want them. I have a couple of bad spots that will need tweaking.  Stern Frames next.  I'll take a look how others framed out the Stern before I proceed.

[David Rice]

Right now I can't see straight.  I went to cut out the Stern pieces and they began to break apart in my hands. That pink colored piece of "dung" plywood again. I hate that stuff.  Look's like I am going to make my own Stern parts.  GGGGRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrr.

 

[reklein]

I musta glued my stern pieces back together about 10 times. I haven't been anywhere but in the shop under the A/C. Was 104 here today. I'll put up some pics of my planking. I JUst closed up the hull today. Oh,BTW the stern gets much stronger once you get it all together.

[David Rice]

More bad pieces. Too many hollow spots and crumbling material. When you try to sand any of it, it crumbles apart. Fortunately, by combining the original plywood provided by the Kit, and the replacement material MS sent later, I have been able to gather together enough pieces. If you ever receive any of that Pink plywood in a Kit,  send it ALL back.

[JesseLee]

Mine did that a lot too. So frustrating!

 

Jesse