Shroud Fairleads

[BANYAN]

Hi all,

 

While researching a likely /representative rigging and belaying plan (Barque Rigged) for the HMCS Victoria, I came across the terminology "fairleads" in reference to some of the shrouds.  The terminology/discussion from the CSS Alabama: Anatomy of a Confederate Raider by Andrew Bowcock, infers that the lower shrouds were led through fairleads (possibly to clear, or lead, the shroud clear of the roughtree rail, rather than fairleads attached to the shrouds for other rigging.

 

Is this device/rigging technique familiar to anyone?

 

regards

 

Pat

[Jim Lad]

First time I've come across the expression, Pat.  I'll be interested to see what information people have on this.

 

John

[BANYAN]

Thanks John,

 

As you can see from the extract, I am not sure whether he refers to leads for other ropes fitted to the shroud, or to lead the shroud itself?  In other parts of the drawings, he usually references whether a rope passes through a lead etc, and he does not reference these other than on this drawing.

 

I have checked Lees, Marquardt and Falconer with no luck so far.  An internet search brings up all sorts of things but nothing for a fairlead on the shrouds???

 

cheers

 

Pat

[BANYAN]

Further to my last, I am also trying to contact the author "Andrew Bowcock" but have had no luck trying - I have tried Chatham Publishing but they either do not exist anymore, or changed emails.  If anyone can provide contact details, or put the author in touch with me it would be greatly appreciated.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[mtaylor]

Pat,

Try this for the Anatomy series.... looks like someone else owns them:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway_Publishing   One lead from there is Bloomsbury Publishing and seems to be the new owners.

 

 

[Mark P]

Hi Pat;

 

I would be very dubious that shrouds were ever led through a fairlead.  The stress on the fairlead would be quite high.  I have never seen a shroud led in any other way than straight to a dead-eye,  without anything inbetween. 

 

My interpretation is that the diagram above shows a plan of the shrouds (4 of them) and two topmast backstays,  with a pin rail inside the bulwarks,  or possibly on the shrouds themselves.

 

There are then also fairleads on the first two or three shrouds through which ropes 100-102 are reeved.

 

All the best.

 

Mark P

[Jim Lad]

Just had another thought, Pat (I have some occasionally)!  Late 19th/early 20th century sailing ships often had bullseye fairleads lashed to the shrouds to lead some of the light running rigging from aloft to the pin rail.  Is that, perhaps, what he's talking about?

 

John

[S.Coleman]

Could It mean this by any chance?

[BANYAN]

Hi all and thanks for looking in and the comments.

 

Mark T, thanks for that pointer - I will try through them.

 

Mark P - thanks and I agree, that is why I thought it so strange.  I think your interpretation may be exactly that.  I will have a look at the legend to see which 'running ends' of ropes might have need of a 'fair' lead to secure them properly at the pins without fouling other ropes.  That should prove a good pointer to the likely candidates.  HMCS Victoria had steel wire shrouds which alone would make fairleads unlikely, so the idea of a shroud fairlead truck (see John's earlier comment and my response below)  to create a 'fair' lead for running rigging  to belay points is most likely what the author was inferring.

 

John,  thanks again; I actually used a couple of those on the Endeavour and should have clicked - Marquardt calls them shroud fairlead trucks.  I think you may be right and it is these trucks using a slightly different terminology.  Now to to determine their correct positioning  which will be governed by where the 'running end' of the rope is to be lead from  

 

S.Coleman - many thanks mate, these are shroud cleats but I very much appreciate the input.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Thanasis]

Hi all,
Could be also considered these rigging items as "fairleads" or is something else.
I haven't seen them before.
Thx

[JerseyCity Frankie]

Those are called Lizards. But I've never seen them as big metal rings before. A Lizard is used in the bight of a line that may otherwise foul or chafe on something. Usually it's just an eyesplice or bowline knot in the end of a bit of line that the other line passes through somewhere off the deck.The length and position of the Lizard holds the middle of the line in check so it won't whip around or get into some area it shouldn't. Often seen on docklines to keep the hanging portion of the line from snagging shoreside objects. It's a fairlead in general. 

[BANYAN]

Hi Thanasis and Frank,

 

Many thanks for your contributions to the discussion and  building a much clearer understanding of rigging practices.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[druxey]

My understanding of a fairlead on a shroud is a wooden or metal bullseye (similar to a thimble, but longer) that is lashed to the shroud to lead a running line through on its way down to the deck.

[wefalck]

That was exactly also my understanding of the term.

 

And my memory served my right, there are various illustrations in Underhills 'Masting and Rigging': Figure 87 on p. 85 shows the thing and plates 36, 37, and 38 shows how they are used to keep running rigging from the higher yards close the shrouds and out of the way of lower yards.

 

These thingies, that look a bit like the old-time wooden sewing thread bobbins, have a groove along their length of the diameter of the shroud and, according to requirement, up to four holes lenghtwise.

[Thanasis]

From my library.

Thx

[BANYAN]

Many thanks again all.  I am now confident the author was referring to fairleads on the shrouds rather than a lead for the shrouds.  I have yet to determine which running rigging would have been led through these but should be able to do so using the belaying /pin plan

 

cheers

 

Pat

[BANYAN]

Further to this discussion I am now determining the actual rigging plan and belay points using the excellent plans provided by Andrew Bowcock in his book CSS Alabama: Anatomy of a confederate Raider.  

 

As this section seems to attract a wider visit I am linking back to my log to seek comments and suggestions on my current interpretation of contemporary lithographs/photos and try to match to the book to determine a LIKELY rigging and belaying plan for Victoria.

 

 

All comments, suggestions etc most welcomed.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[rwiederrich]

Many times the lines passing through fairleads were running lines that controlled the sails..not the yards.  Such as leach lines and bunt lines.  These smaller numerous lines could number up to 20 per side per mast.  That's a lotta belaying down on deck.

 

Rob

[BANYAN]

Thanks Rob, getting to know this   I have already doubled the number of pin racks - may even need more.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[BANYAN]

On 4/12/2017 at 1:35 AM, Thanasis said:

From my library.

Thx

 

Hi folks, I have a follow up to the initial question.  Thanasis shows the fairleads that were probably used in HMCSS Victoria in the third option of his post above.  Harold Underhill confirms this and also supplies a probable fairlead rigging plan in his book "Masting and Rigging the Clipper Ship and  Ocean Carrier".  However, while implied in several books, there is not a clear statement made as to whether the bundles of lines leading through these fairleads go to a single belaying pin, or separate pins.  The respective rigging plans suggest/imply they belay to a single pin (usually as a group/bundle of three lines, including any combination of the following - 2 x bunt lines plus one other line being either a leech, clew or downhaul).

 

Does this make sense to have these lines (usually of small diameter cordage than other running rigging) belay to a single pin?

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

[popeye2sea]

Lines that were to be handled together, such as your bunt and leech lines, would often be belayed on the same pin, as you would never be working these lines singly.

 

Regards,

 

[BANYAN]

That makes sense - thanks

 

cheers

 

Pat

[JerryTodd]

On 4/10/2017 at 2:02 PM, Thanasis said:

Hi all,
Could be also considered these rigging items as "fairleads" or is something else.
I haven't seen them before.
Thx

 

They are "Lizzards"

[Dr PR]

I think Rob and Henry are correct. Lines that take a great strain, such as sheets and lifts would not be run through fairleads on the stays.

 

I believe Underhill actually says it was common for buntlines and clewlines to be belayed to the same pin. These lines normally have no strain on them  and they are always used together. He also mentions that these lines from the same sail may run through holes in the same fairlead on a stay.

 

Sometimes braces on topsail schooners are lead through fairleads on stays in order to route them away from gaffs that must be free to swing outboard.