Techtonic Posted June 19, 2022 Share #241 Posted June 19, 2022 Hi Flyer (or any other HMS Vanguard builders who might be reading this), I'm excited that I have just joined the fold and starting building HMS Vanguard myself. I've been very much enjoying reading your build log and will take much inspiration from it. Looking through all the parts in my kit I did have a question about the cannons. The 9 pounder cannons in my kit seem very undersized. I just wanted to check if this is normal or if maybe Amati substituted a smaller cannon in my kit? Here is a pic of the 18 pounder and 9 pounder cannons supplied: Here is what the 9 pounders look like against the 1:1 plans: So do these 9 pounders look the same as the ones in your kit? Quote Complete: OcCre HMS Beagle 1:60 Amati Victory Models HMS Pegasus 1:64 Amati Victory Models HMS Vanguard 1:72 In Progress: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted June 19, 2022 Author Share #242 Posted June 19, 2022 Hi Techtonic First I wish you as much joy with the build of this monster as I have. My canons are the same. It seems, that the mistake happened when someone got copy-paste-itis and did paste some 18 ponders instead of the smaller 9 onto the fore deck when drawing the plan. Another point is, that possibly the guns aren't in the right scale at all. If I take Brian Lavery's 'The 74-gun ship Bellona' as reference the barrel of an 18 should have a length of 41mm compared to the 35 of the kit whereas a long 9 should have 39mm instead of 27. Even the short 9 pounder should still have a 34mm barrel. Possibly Amati did compromise a bit too much when weighting accuracy of the kit against its price. Nevertheless it's still an amazing kit and you always could substitute the guns. Perhaps you could have them printed somewhere. Vanguard model sells them in 1/64 but if you take the short 18 pounder it would be quite close to what you need. The difference would be about 10%. But one complete pair costs you 10,5 or 11,5 £ each... And I look forward to your build log.😉 Cheerio Peter Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techtonic Posted June 20, 2022 Share #243 Posted June 20, 2022 18 hours ago, flyer said: Hi Techtonic First I wish you as much joy with the build of this monster as I have. My canons are the same. It seems, that the mistake happened when someone got copy-paste-itis and did paste some 18 ponders instead of the smaller 9 onto the fore deck when drawing the plan. Another point is, that possibly the guns aren't in the right scale at all. If I take Brian Lavery's 'The 74-gun ship Bellona' as reference the barrel of an 18 should have a length of 41mm compared to the 35 of the kit whereas a long 9 should have 39mm instead of 27. Even the short 9 pounder should still have a 34mm barrel. Possibly Amati did compromise a bit too much when weighting accuracy of the kit against its price. Nevertheless it's still an amazing kit and you always could substitute the guns. Perhaps you could have them printed somewhere. Vanguard model sells them in 1/64 but if you take the short 18 pounder it would be quite close to what you need. The difference would be about 10%. But one complete pair costs you 10,5 or 11,5 £ each... And I look forward to your build log.😉 Cheerio Peter Thanks Peter for confirming I have the correct incorrect parts 😕 Looking at your pics they don't look too bad once fitted so I'll probably stick with them since it would be pretty expensive to replace them all. I tend not to get too fixated on historical accuracy as long as it looks right. I haven't decided yet if I'll do a build log for this one. I did for my first ship, HMS Beagle. But just did a completed build gallery entry for HMS Pegasus (for which again your build log was a source of inspiration). Now the big dilemmas: Vanguard, Bellerophon or Elephant? Full sails, furled sails or no sails? I got carried away when I saw it came with sail cloth and sail plans and bought a sewing machine - so I may go for full or half furled sails on this one. flyer 1 Quote Complete: OcCre HMS Beagle 1:60 Amati Victory Models HMS Pegasus 1:64 Amati Victory Models HMS Vanguard 1:72 In Progress: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted June 20, 2022 Share #244 Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) I've just finished the standing rigging and never even noticed the cannon size issue on the plans when I was doing them🤪 I used the kits barrels but used the wooden carriage kits from Chris Watton's 'Victory model's instead of the cast ones... Edited June 20, 2022 by Ian B GrandpaPhil, mort stoll, flyer and 2 others 5 Quote HMAV Bounty 'Billings' completed ⛵ HMS Cheerful - Syren-Chuck' completed Steam Pinnace 199 'Billings bashed' - completed ⚓ HMS Ledbury F30 --White Ensign -completed 😎 HMS Vanguard 'Victory models'-- completed Bismarck Amati 1/200 --underway 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted June 20, 2022 Share #245 Posted June 20, 2022 I forgot to say-- I'm planning to do a mix of furled and set sails-- set the main, fore course and one of the bow sails, (slightly raised from fully down) The spanker full. And all the rest furled--- well that's the intention....lets see how it works out in practice 🤣 I just wanted to do something different as my last build had no sails (Cheerful) and my Bounty has full sails set. flyer 1 Quote HMAV Bounty 'Billings' completed ⛵ HMS Cheerful - Syren-Chuck' completed Steam Pinnace 199 'Billings bashed' - completed ⚓ HMS Ledbury F30 --White Ensign -completed 😎 HMS Vanguard 'Victory models'-- completed Bismarck Amati 1/200 --underway 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted June 20, 2022 Share #246 Posted June 20, 2022 2 hours ago, Techtonic said: I'll probably stick with them since it would be pretty expensive to replace them all. If you consider 3D printed barrels, the price is very low. Figure about $0.30-$0.50 each. All you need is an appropriate drawing in STL or other format that is 3D printer friendly. Check out the below for more details and a couple pics. These happen to be 17th century barrels (note the tapered trunnions for this era) but others are certainly doable as you can see in responding posts. Allan Techtonic, flyer and AON 2 1 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted June 20, 2022 Share #247 Posted June 20, 2022 24 minutes ago, Ian B said: I'm planning to do a mix of furled and set sails-- set the main, fore course and one of the bow sails, (slightly raised from fully down) The spanker full. And all the rest furled--- well that's the intention....lets see how it works out in practice Your model is really looking good. I fully realize there are proponents of using cloth sails that are not so concerned with scale and the choice is always that of the model builder. Keep in mind that at 1:72 there is no cloth in existence or sewing method that will be to scale and many feel will detract from all the beauty you have put into your model to this point. Maybe consider non-woven materials. The $7 booklet on making sails by David Antsherl from SeaWatch books is a great guide on making realistic sails. Tom Lauria has a two part video on sail making that you may find helpful as well. flyer, AON, Techtonic and 1 other 4 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted June 20, 2022 Share #248 Posted June 20, 2022 11 minutes ago, allanyed said: Your model is really looking good. I fully realize there are proponents of using cloth sails that are not so concerned with scale and the choice is always that of the model builder. Keep in mind that at 1:72 there is no cloth in existence or sewing method that will be to scale and many feel will detract from all the beauty you have put into your model to this point. Maybe consider non-woven materials. The $7 booklet on making sails by David Antsherl from SeaWatch books is a great guide on making realistic sails. Tom Lauria has a two part video on sail making that you may find helpful as well. Thanks I have seen this video-- I am having great difficulty in locating silkspan in the UK--- so if anyone knows where to get some I'd be greatly obliged . Quote HMAV Bounty 'Billings' completed ⛵ HMS Cheerful - Syren-Chuck' completed Steam Pinnace 199 'Billings bashed' - completed ⚓ HMS Ledbury F30 --White Ensign -completed 😎 HMS Vanguard 'Victory models'-- completed Bismarck Amati 1/200 --underway 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted June 20, 2022 Share #249 Posted June 20, 2022 PEGASUS MODELS LTD 88 CATTON GROVE ROAD NORWICH NORFOLK UNITED KINGDOM Zip:NR33AA Phone: 44-1603-419515 Email: sales@pegasusmodels.co.uk WebSite: www.pegasusmodels.co.uk I don't know if this is current but they are a distributor for SIG, which makes silk span. https://sigmfg.com/products/sig-silkspan-tissue Allan AON 1 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techtonic Posted June 20, 2022 Share #250 Posted June 20, 2022 8 hours ago, Ian B said: I used the kits barrels but used the wooden carriage kits from Chris Watton's 'Victory model's instead of the cast ones... Hi Ian. Do you happen to recall which size carriage you got https://vanguardmodels.co.uk/product/cannon-carriages/, was it the 1:72 9 pounder? Just want to make sure since the kit 9 pounder barrels seem undersized but I want to at least make sure the carriage matches the barrel reasonably well. That's definitely an affordable solution at 90p per carriage, though shipping to the US costs more that the carriages. Quote Complete: OcCre HMS Beagle 1:60 Amati Victory Models HMS Pegasus 1:64 Amati Victory Models HMS Vanguard 1:72 In Progress: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techtonic Posted June 20, 2022 Share #251 Posted June 20, 2022 8 hours ago, Ian B said: Thanks I have seen this video-- I am having great difficulty in locating silkspan in the UK--- so if anyone knows where to get some I'd be greatly obliged . I used Silkspan to do the furled sails on my Pegasus, I think it looks great for furled sails - you can see the results here https://modelshipworld.com/gallery/album/2554-hms-pegasus-164-amati-victory-models-by-techtonic/. For set sails, while the silkspan may look more accurate to scale, I've a feeling the cloth sails may be more aesthetically pleasing. The cloth supplied with the Vanguard is very fine so might look reasonable. I'll probably experiment with both to see which looks best. allanyed 1 Quote Complete: OcCre HMS Beagle 1:60 Amati Victory Models HMS Pegasus 1:64 Amati Victory Models HMS Vanguard 1:72 In Progress: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted June 20, 2022 Share #252 Posted June 20, 2022 Techtonic There have been a few nice looking cloth sail sets in recent logs and it would really be super if those builders prepared a short write up on their methods that could go into the articles data base. Sadly, there have also been many that look awful, including pre-sewn sails from most kit makers. Bad sails plus the fact that most of the rigging is blocked from view is possibly why so many model makers from the 17th through the 21st centuries leave off the sails. In the end, of course we should all go with what makes us happy😁 Allan Techtonic 1 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted June 21, 2022 Share #253 Posted June 21, 2022 16 hours ago, Techtonic said: Hi Ian. Do you happen to recall which size carriage you got https://vanguardmodels.co.uk/product/cannon-carriages/, was it the 1:72 9 pounder? Just want to make sure since the kit 9 pounder barrels seem undersized but I want to at least make sure the carriage matches the barrel reasonably well. That's definitely an affordable solution at 90p per carriage, though shipping to the US costs more that the carriages. yes--- and with their carriages on to the kit barrels they look right in proportion-- well to my eyes anyway Cannon Carriages - 9-pounder, 1:72 Cannon Carriages - 18-pounder, 1:72 mort stoll, GrandpaPhil and ccoyle 3 Quote HMAV Bounty 'Billings' completed ⛵ HMS Cheerful - Syren-Chuck' completed Steam Pinnace 199 'Billings bashed' - completed ⚓ HMS Ledbury F30 --White Ensign -completed 😎 HMS Vanguard 'Victory models'-- completed Bismarck Amati 1/200 --underway 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted June 21, 2022 Share #254 Posted June 21, 2022 15 hours ago, Techtonic said: I used Silkspan to do the furled sails on my Pegasus, I think it looks great for furled sails - you can see the results here https://modelshipworld.com/gallery/album/2554-hms-pegasus-164-amati-victory-models-by-techtonic/. For set sails, while the silkspan may look more accurate to scale, I've a feeling the cloth sails may be more aesthetically pleasing. The cloth supplied with the Vanguard is very fine so might look reasonable. I'll probably experiment with both to see which looks best. Thanks, I have just added your build to my favourites-- gives me lots of ideals-- might go fully furled all round.. Better keep it light on here its not my build log Its a great build and looking forward to seeing how it turn out ..amazing I bet!!! AON 1 Quote HMAV Bounty 'Billings' completed ⛵ HMS Cheerful - Syren-Chuck' completed Steam Pinnace 199 'Billings bashed' - completed ⚓ HMS Ledbury F30 --White Ensign -completed 😎 HMS Vanguard 'Victory models'-- completed Bismarck Amati 1/200 --underway 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted June 21, 2022 Share #255 Posted June 21, 2022 On 6/20/2022 at 2:02 PM, allanyed said: PEGASUS MODELS LTD 88 CATTON GROVE ROAD NORWICH NORFOLK UNITED KINGDOM Zip:NR33AA Phone: 44-1603-419515 Email: sales@pegasusmodels.co.uk WebSite: www.pegasusmodels.co.uk I don't know if this is current but they are a distributor for SIG, which makes silk span. https://sigmfg.com/products/sig-silkspan-tissue Allan no luck-- tried them as well-- just hoping some shop has old stock stuck somewhere Quote HMAV Bounty 'Billings' completed ⛵ HMS Cheerful - Syren-Chuck' completed Steam Pinnace 199 'Billings bashed' - completed ⚓ HMS Ledbury F30 --White Ensign -completed 😎 HMS Vanguard 'Victory models'-- completed Bismarck Amati 1/200 --underway 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mort stoll Posted June 21, 2022 Share #256 Posted June 21, 2022 Hi Ian, Just noticed the rammers, sponges etc. by your carrages. Where did you get them? Keep up the great work, Mort Quote Current Build - Caldercraft Victory Completed - Artesiana Latina Swift, Harvey, MGS Prince de Neufchatel, Imai USS Susquehanna, Mamoli Constitution, Rattlesnake per Hunt Practium, Caldercraft Snake, Diana, Kammerlander Duke William Waiting to be Launched - Bluejacket Constitution Proud member of The New Jersey Ship Model Society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted June 21, 2022 Author Share #257 Posted June 21, 2022 Thank you all for that wealth of information. About to finish standing rigging I'm actually thinking about which sails to set and which will be furled. I shall use a mix of both, same as Ian B. Presently all topgallant sails shall be furled and all topsails set. The rest is undecided. Perhaps I will have Mizzen course and main sail hauled up, fore sail and jib set and perhaps one or two staysails added - at least that's the provisional plan, depending on my skill and nerves. Before I saw that excellent tutorial about silkspan I was determined to use glued sails made from fine cotton fabric with seams pencilled on. The same I used on Pickle and America. And now I also found Chris Watton's latest post about his newest sail sets. And I knew where I could get about the same fabric he uses... Time to think and decide... Techtonic, your Pegasus and her sails look wonderful and I'm a great fan of adding at least furled sails. However having all sails set on my last two projects - both schooners - give me some additional pleasure. Now I'd like to try a mix. An additional benefit of partly set sails is the possibility (or rather necessity) to brace the yards and thus need less space for the finished model. Ian, very nice details on your build. Especially that open grating above the galley stove is a nice touch. Do you see the stove at all? And BTW, did you rig royal stays and backstays? They are missing on the plans but installed in the pictures on the kit's box. Cheers Peter AON 1 Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted June 22, 2022 Share #258 Posted June 22, 2022 (edited) 22 hours ago, mort stoll said: Hi Ian, Just noticed the rammers, sponges etc. by your carrages. Where did you get them? Keep up the great work, Mort @mort stoll easy -- they were just plastic coated electrical wire---stripped with just the end insolation left on end for the sponge and the bare copper for the shift and painted you can make loads in minutes ...and completely strip wires twisted at the end for the cork screw. Edited June 22, 2022 by Ian B mort stoll, AON and flyer 3 Quote HMAV Bounty 'Billings' completed ⛵ HMS Cheerful - Syren-Chuck' completed Steam Pinnace 199 'Billings bashed' - completed ⚓ HMS Ledbury F30 --White Ensign -completed 😎 HMS Vanguard 'Victory models'-- completed Bismarck Amati 1/200 --underway 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted June 22, 2022 Share #259 Posted June 22, 2022 Hi Peter @flyer I haven't rigged the Royals--- but might... yes, the stove can be seen slightly (all of the top) -- better than not at all-- I spent so much time doing it I thought it a shame to hide it, AON, mort stoll and flyer 3 Quote HMAV Bounty 'Billings' completed ⛵ HMS Cheerful - Syren-Chuck' completed Steam Pinnace 199 'Billings bashed' - completed ⚓ HMS Ledbury F30 --White Ensign -completed 😎 HMS Vanguard 'Victory models'-- completed Bismarck Amati 1/200 --underway 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted July 12, 2022 Author Share #260 Posted July 12, 2022 (edited) main topgallant mast Stay and backstays were rigged in a similar manner as on the mizzen. main topgallant mast rudder chains After pondering a while about which way to fix them I decided to follow the example of the well known contemporary Bellona model. Another possibility would have been the way it's done on today's Victory. However interesting it would have been to show the partly installed emergency steering it seems to me a strange configuration with the rudder pendants also in place and leading over the side of the ship. Albeit in Harland's 'Seamanship in the age of sail' this configuration seems to be mentioned as permanent installation with the ends of the pendants made fast in the mizzen channels I choose the simpler way. During work I noticed the missing strip of wood on marking the lower end of the lower counter, which gives the location where to fix the chains, and put it in place. missing strip of wood at the lower counter and an impression how it could look with rudder chains the Victory-way ruder chains in place - they seem to hang low but that length is needed to let the rudder play Edited July 12, 2022 by flyer AON, mort stoll, egkb and 2 others 5 Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted July 12, 2022 Author Share #261 Posted July 12, 2022 jibboom and fore topgallant mast Because I needed it for the topgallant stay, I had to put the jibboom in place. It was fixed with a lashing around the bowsprit in front of the saddle. The martingale stay was set up the way I discussed earlier. Stay and backstay are in one piece, leading over the dolphin striker(changing here from stay to backstay), through a block under the bowsprit behind the bees and towards the port knighthead where it is set up with a tackle. Horses are in place on bowsprit and jibboom. (How I feel with Stephen Maturin about those strange names mariners have for ships parts: a positive floating zoo!) Fore topgallant stays were set up according to the plans with the same changes I made on the other masts. bowsprit with jibboom jibboom port knighthead - upper tackle for martingale backstay, lower for fore topmast stay all topgallant stays in place Meriadoc Brandybuck, bj.scm@telia.com, egkb and 2 others 5 Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted July 12, 2022 Author Share #262 Posted July 12, 2022 Now I have to decide whether to set up royal stays or not. They are omitted in the plans, however set on the picture on the kit's box. Bellona doesn't have them in the original configuration in Lavery's book. Lees sais they came into use 1719 for main and foremast and 1810 for the mizzen. Before that time I think at least flagstaff stays were set up on main and foremast. As far as I can make out on the works by Thomas Luny (1759 - 1837) he had them included in all his paintings of the Bellerophon. So, when Napoleon set foot on the deck of Bellerophon he certainly noticed royal stays and backstays on all 3 masts.🤔🤔 Taking advantage of the fine weather I had a photo shooting on the outside with Bellerophon's nearly completed standing rigging. ccoyle, Techtonic, Meriadoc Brandybuck and 6 others 9 Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted July 13, 2022 Share #263 Posted July 13, 2022 (edited) Its coming on great--- glad I am following you, I noticed after looking at your pictures I have missed the foot ropes on my jib boom--- so thanks I shall correct that soon. Liking the anchor chains the length and the colour looks spot on to me...I have not fitted them yet I shall leave that to last when I fit the lights --- Edited July 13, 2022 by Ian B Mr Whippy and flyer 2 Quote HMAV Bounty 'Billings' completed ⛵ HMS Cheerful - Syren-Chuck' completed Steam Pinnace 199 'Billings bashed' - completed ⚓ HMS Ledbury F30 --White Ensign -completed 😎 HMS Vanguard 'Victory models'-- completed Bismarck Amati 1/200 --underway 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted July 23, 2022 Author Share #264 Posted July 23, 2022 (edited) mizzen topgallant stay 2.0 After deciding to set up royal stays, I tried to figure how. First I glued two small cleats on the sides of each royal mast, just below the caps. This is according to an information in Darcy Lever's Young Sea Officers Sheet Anchor. I recently acquired a copy and found that book full of useful information. Then I turned to Lees to see how the lower ends of the stays would be set up. While checking the run of the mizzen royal stay I noticed that it's topgallant stay changed several times the way it was run. The kit's plans showed a topgallant stay before royal stays were put onto the mizzen - before ca. 1810. So I reset it and led it from the mast top through a block below the cap of the main mast and fixed its end to the collar of the main stay with thimbles and a lanyard. topgallant mizzen stay 1.0 ...2.0 lower end in the main top Edited July 30, 2022 by flyer egkb, AON, mort stoll and 2 others 5 Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted July 30, 2022 Author Share #265 Posted July 30, 2022 royal stays After finishing the topgallant stays, I started to rig royal stays on all 3 masts. To find out how, I mainly used information of Lees. The diameter of all stays is 0,25mm, half of that of the topgallant stays. The backstays are spliced around the mast tops and their lower ends are set up to eyebolts close to the lower deadeyes of the respective topgallant backstays, fixed with thimbles and a lanyard and hooked to the eyebolt. The fore royal stay is spliced around the masthead and the bowsprit while main and mizzen lower ends are fixed at the aft most fore topmast crosstree respective in the main top. Meanwhile I also started to arm the lower deck with the dummy gun barrels and glued the port lids in place. The standing rigging is now finished and it's about time to decide what sails she should carry and in which way. finished standing rigging with royal stays mizzen royal backstay inside of the topgallant backstay fore royal backstay main top with mizzen topgallant stay fixed with thimbles and lanyard to the collar of the main stay and mizzen royal stay, to the left of it, fixed with thimbles and lanyard and hooked to an eyebolt fore topmast head with main royal stay made fast to the crosstree with thimbles and lanyard the first guns appeared on the lower deck chris watton, ccoyle, Meriadoc Brandybuck and 5 others 8 Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted July 30, 2022 Share #266 Posted July 30, 2022 Looks really good. Great photos! Thanks for that. mort stoll and flyer 2 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted August 1, 2022 Author Share #267 Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) sail plan Browsing through my books and the net I was looking for inspirations in form of paintings of a three masted ship with not too much sails set. One painting which did catch my eye - for obvious reasons - was Derek Gardner's 'Bellerophon at Plymouth'. I noted that Gardner did several paintings of different ships with a similar perspective and sail arrangement. As he did serve in the royal navy - albeit more than 100 years too late - he should have his sails right. I guess Gardner's Bellerophon could have sailed in with a wind from her aft port quarter. Perhaps a short while before she still had her main topgallant and fore course fully set and also did use her mizzen course. Taking this as a possible scenario, I could set course and topsail on the mizzen, topsail and topgallant on the main, fore course and topsail and jib sail. On that painting she also carries her main top staysail. To decide if this would suit, I will check with dummy paper sails. Main course as well as mizzen and fore topgallants would be furled on the yards while spritsail and sprit topsail yard would be bare. This means 5 square sails, spanker, jib and 1 staysail - a total of 8 sails set and 3 square sails furled. The fore topmast staysail should most probably also be furled on the bowsprit. Bellerophon at Plymouth by Derek G. M. Gardner To check the look of the arrangement I did then cut paper sails. After attaching them to masts and stays I came to the following conclusions: - Checking a sail plan with simple paper sails is definitely worth the effort. - All the kit's sail plans must be rechecked with actual masts and yards. - The main top staysail looks good and helps to create a balanced look. - The chosen sail plan looks quite business-like and still leaves an unobstructed view onto the decks. - It guess it will look fine with those sails set and the others furled. I will omit to attempt clewed up sails. - Whether the jib or the fore topmast staysail will be set is still undecided - that's for later. - The jib has an odd size. Although it matches that in the book 'Bellona' in the AOTS series it is completely different from one constructed according to information from Lees. If I set the jib it will have the corrected form. - It would be nice if the making of the definite sails would be as fast and easy as the paper sails were. with fore topmast staysail jib according to kit's plans - a clear no go with jib according to Lees Edited August 2, 2022 by flyer BenD, AON, ccoyle and 2 others 5 Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted August 1, 2022 Share #268 Posted August 1, 2022 She look gorgeous! flyer and mort stoll 2 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Ensign Posted August 2, 2022 Share #269 Posted August 2, 2022 Nice work Peter, she looks impressive. I like the sail arrangement on the Gardner painting; if you use silkspan sails they can be manipulated using the clews and Buntlines. It's been a while since I did sails on my Seventy-four build, but the silkspan is coated with diluted pva, re-wetted and hauled into shape. It then dries in the desired position. The same applies if you want a slight billow to the sails, heat applied from behind fixes the shape. I look forward to see her kitted out. B.E. flyer 1 Quote Current Build: Medway-longboat-1742-by-blue-ensign-½”-scale Completed builds: HMS Indefatigable-1794-by-blue-ensign-vanguard-models-1:64-scale HMS Sphinx 1775 by Blue Ensign. 1:64 scale - Vanguard Models Queen-Anne-Royal-Barge-circa-1700-by-Blue-Ensign Fifie fishing boat Lady Eleanor Muirneag-1903-–-a-scottish-zulu-fishing-boat-164-scale-based-on-the-vanguard-models-zulu-kit/ HM Cutter Alert 1777 HM Cutter Cheerful 1806 18th-century-English-longboat-by-Blue-Ensign-ms-148-scale/ 18thc English Pinnace by Blue Ensign-Model-Shipways-1:24 scale/ HMS-Pegasus-by-Blue-Ensign-finished-Victory-Models-1:64-scale/ Heller Seventy-four 1:150 scale - modified Le Superbe/Le Glorieux kit after Boudriot, waterline setting with sails. The schooner Pickle, Jotika pob kit 1:64 scale, my interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted August 2, 2022 Share #270 Posted August 2, 2022 Looking fab, the cannons really start to make her look aggressive progress is super-- Love the painting those sails would look great on the model... I'm just about to embark on my sails --so its good to see your mock ups. I now keep changing my mind as to which way to go-- i am now thinking a mix of full and furled sails as per your painting...aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh to much to choose from 🤪 By the way , I have just fitted royal stays-- I took my lead from you flyer 1 Quote HMAV Bounty 'Billings' completed ⛵ HMS Cheerful - Syren-Chuck' completed Steam Pinnace 199 'Billings bashed' - completed ⚓ HMS Ledbury F30 --White Ensign -completed 😎 HMS Vanguard 'Victory models'-- completed Bismarck Amati 1/200 --underway 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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