Hr. Ms. Java 1925 by Piet - FINISHED - Pacific Cross Roads - 1:350 - PLASTIC - Light Cruiser of Royal Netherlands Navy as she was in 1942

[Piet]

Thank you Nils!  What have you been up to?  Miss your builds.

 

Hello Kevin Denlay, what a pleasant surprise hearing from you!  Yes, indeed, it's been a few years since our last correspondence.  Computers do have a tendency to self destruct, how well I know.  I am on my third hard drive!  The one that crashed was not fully recoverable and still have a few issues.

ref the stern pics, I really had to think long and hard about posting them after my promise to you.  I figured though that now the wrecks are gone and no other record exist of that section of the wreck, these wonderful people on this forum would benefit from it in tying in the possible battle station of my father.  Thank you for understanding.

 

I am sending you a PM with my e-mail address.

Cheers,

 

[KevDen]

Thanks very much Imagna / Lou for alerting Piet to my inquiry. He has already contacted me by PM (and posted above)! 

 

I have tried to send you a PM with thanks but cant tell if it went through, hence this post here now.

 

Anway, again thanks for hooking us back up and will make a post or two of my own in due course, more on an historical note for modelers than actual modeling per se, once having conversed a little more with Piet off forum.

 

PS. Being new to forum and these are my first posts, it seems there is no way to 'preview' ones post before commiting to actually posting / uploading. Is that correct?

 

Kind regards,

Kevin  D

Edited September 13, 2019 by KevDen

[amateur]

No, thereisnopreview, but onthe other hand: what you see inthe 'edit' -area is what readsrs get to see when posted.

 

Jan

[Jack12477]

1 hour ago, KevDen said:

PS. Being new to forum and these are my first posts, it seems there is no way to 'preview' ones post before commiting to actually posting / uploading. Is that correct?

 

50 minutes ago, amateur said:

No, thereisnopreview, but onthe other hand: what you see inthe 'edit' -area is what readsrs get to see when posted.

 

Jan

There is a way to preview a post. In the reply window, top row of window, on the extreme right side there is an icon that looks like a page with the top right corner folded over. Click this icon to preview the post, to close the preview click the black circle with the X in upper right corner.

 

Kevin, to see if someone got your PM, at the top of the page there is a header with a world globe and two conversation icons next to it. Click on the conversation icons to see your PMs.

[lmagna]

3 hours ago, KevDen said:

I have tried to send you a PM with thanks

No problem Kevin. Piet explained by email your relationship and what you have done for him and helping out in the little way I could was enough for me. I didn't get your PM but it is plain it worked. The only thing I kind of wished I had done was call Piet instead. But then he would never had time to post here for you as I would probably still be talking to him! It's been a while for me as well.  

[Mirabell61]

12 hours ago, Piet said:

Thank you Nils!  What have you been up to?  Miss your builds.

 

Hello Kevin Denlay, what a pleasant surprise hearing from you!  Yes, indeed, it's been a few years since our last correspondence.  Computers do have a tendency to self destruct, how well I know.  I am on my third hard drive!  The one that crashed was not fully recoverable and still have a few issues.

ref the stern pics, I really had to think long and hard about posting them after my promise to you.  I figured though that now the wrecks are gone and no other record exist of that section of the wreck, these wonderful people on this forum would benefit from it in tying in the possible battle station of my father.  Thank you for understanding.

 

I am sending you a PM with my e-mail address.

Cheers,

 

Hi Piet,

All my build logs of the last years are linked to my signature..., the last was the Chebec "Eagle of Algier"

 

Cheers, Nils

[KevDen]

12 hours ago, Piet said:

ref the stern pics, I really had to think long and hard about posting them after my promise to you.  I figured though that now the wrecks are gone and no other record exist of that section of the wreck, these wonderful people on this forum would benefit from it in tying in the possible battle station of my father.  Thank you for understanding.

Piet, re your above. The main reason I asked at the time not to pass them on , post, etc was that the 'technical' aspects - shall we say - of those stern images left a lot to be desired. One of my two strobes (flash units) for my camera failed upon reaching the bottom, so the pics were taken with only one flash, which was really inadequate for that dive, as it was as dark as night on the bottom of Java Sea that day. And only using one flash often creates the accursed 'backscatter', those particles that appear like falling snow as seen in those pics of mine. Not a good 'look' for an u/w photo, from the photographers point of view anyway. 😊

 

So, I always intended to go back and get better clearer photos, and publish those, but alas it was not to be. Actually the stern was very rarely dived - maybe only twice - certainly less than a handfull of dives for sure in the 13 odd year interim before the wrecks were so rudely removed. As far as I know then, those images remain the only images that exist of what was the remains of the shattered stern, as I never got back to dive the stern myself.

 

Oh, and by the way, you have done your father very very proud with your Hr. Ms. Java build. Truly EXCELLENT!!!

[KevDen]

3 hours ago, Jack12477 said:

 

There is a way to preview a post. In the reply window, top row of window, on the extreme right side there is an icon that looks like a page with the top right corner folded over. Click this icon to preview the post, to close the preview click the black circle with the X in upper right corner.

 

Kevin, to see if someone got your PM, at the top of the page there is a header with a world globe and two conversation icons next to it. Click on the conversation icons to see your PMs.

Jack, thanks VERY much for those tips, very helpful!

[Piet]

Hey Nils, yes, thanks and I found your Zeeboot build.  Will try to follow.  Nice job!

 

@Kevin, re stern photo,  yes, understand completely about having pride of workmanship.  Now it being the only record of that stern portion available, me "breaking my word" seems to be a blessing - - in light with the removal of the wreck.  That particular photo has done more for me then you or anyone can fathom.  This is based on the one on one conversation I had with a Kapitein ter Zee rated officer I had when serving in the KL (Royal Air Force), 1954 - 1955.  I guess I have mentioned it somewhere in this build log.

 

I'll get back with you at your personal e-mail address.

 

Cheers

[Piet]

Hi folks,

 

A minor update. Our friend Kevin Denlay brought to my attention that I have forgotten to install the shields on all four Bofor anti aircraft guns.  Needless to say that was a surprise.  I normally snip all components from the PE for an assembly and mark the drawing as they go on.  Somehow old age disease must have crept in and voila, no shields.

So, I must proceed with correcting my error and finally, really finish the model and install the missing shields.  Not easy to do while at sea and during the battle going on but it must be done.  Don't tell my father though otherwise he'll bob me one on the head.

 

I need to free up some time and it wont be tomorrow though.  First I need to make a drawing for the correct shape and show it to Kevin for his okay.  The shield is curved on the top end.

I must work with the Bofors installed which makes it a little more interesting.

 

So, stay tuned for the next phase and hopefully final phase of this build.  

 

Cheers, 

[amateur]

Just a question: the bofors on The Ruyter had no shields....

why did they fit they on Java, but not on the (newer) guns of De Ruyter...?

(And: the pics I can find show all WwII dutch bofors without shields. Or are we talking different shields?.)

Pic from tha navy-archive (nimh) of one of the Java-bofors

Jan

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by amateur

[KevDen]

On 9/20/2019 at 10:15 AM, amateur said:

Just a question: the bofors on The Ruyter had no shields....

why did they fit they on Java, but not on the (newer) guns of De Ruyter...?

(And: the pics I can find show all WwII dutch bofors without shields. Or are we talking different shields?.)

Pic from tha navy-archive (nimh) of one of the Java-bofors

Jan

Hi Jan,

 

Actually Hr. Ms. Java and Hr. Ms. De Ruyter had identical "face shield's" on all their Bofors (4  twin sets apiece) when sunk.

It seems they (the 'shields') were put on only shortly before the ships were sunk, that is after war started and somewhere in Indonesia (either Tandjong Priok or Surabaja, one would assume). They were so 'new' as a matter of fact, that when De Ruyter's Bofors gunnery officer (who was still alive at the time we found the wrecks in 2002) was told of them being in place, he could not recall them at all, and actually said they were not on his Bofors. It took my underwater photos to convince him they were.  😉 So that gives some idea how recently they had been installed, if even he had forgotten. Even the authors of both books (one on Java by J Anten, the other on De Ruyter by  Legemaate, et al), and other historians were not aware of them being in place. Seems their installation had just been 'a forgotten addition' which, given what else was going on around that time, is to be understood.

 

The historical pic of Java at TP, posted somewhere earlier in this thread actually shows them on her. That is, in the same (but cropped) first pic below, in upper right you can see the shield on the Bofors facing the viewer. In the 2nd, a close up of same, the red arrow points towards the barrels, the green to the 'shield' itself. The third is a u/w one of mine of a Bofors gun on Java, the shield having quite deteriorated. The other two photos below - the lower two - are of De Ruyter, an historical pic (taken at Oosthaven, Sth Sumatra, circa mid February 1942) and an u/w pic of mine showing one of DR's Bofors.

 

It seems very very few historical pics show them installed on either of the ships, and then only if your really looking for them (in an enlarged image). Actually I know of only two historical photos that show them on DR, and two (one being the full image of top photo below) showing them on Java, and those four photos showing them were all taken in 1942.

 

Kevin

Edited September 22, 2019 by KevDen

[amateur]

Hi Ken,

 

thanks for the extensive answer and the pics.

 

I checked: the pics in the naval archive are all taken in Europe, shortly before the war. So that matches your suspicion that the shields were put on very shortly before the action in the Java sea.

 

btw: the same applies to the colourscheme of both ships. Virtually all pics show them basic grey, just as build. Almost  no camouflage pics of these ships.

 

Jan

[KevDen]

Gents, being new here I have a (maybe dumb) question.

 

That is, when I looked at my email notifications today I saw the below. But when I clicked on the 'go to this post' button, it goes to this page, but the post itself does not show, That is the last post that I see is from Jan above (not Jud as below).

 

What am I missing?

 

TIA,

Kevin

 

*************************************************************************************

 

Hi KevDen,
jud has posted a comment on a topic

Posted in Hr. Ms. Java 1925 by Piet - FINISHED - Pacific Cross Roads - 1:350 - Light Cruiser of Roal Netherlands Navy as she was in 1942

 

Sure glad those shields never became the norm, look like a huge obstruction to routine maintenance, the Quad shields would have been a pain in the but but they didn't get in the way of working on the top of the gun or loader. Now that the record is unquestionable, adding the shields is proper, but not long ago I would have argued not to, especially on twins. Looks like another of model of a twin Bofors is in order as an aid to fabrication and fitting of that shield. The Sight Setter position in the above photo, with his back to the camera, that drew my attention, he must have been exposed in front of the new shield installation. Photo shows why I would have bitching about those shields if we had them. Regunning Mount 46, Harnett County LST 821, TF 116, TU 76.8.3, one of the Delta river RVN, 1968. notice. we did not unload the loader to do this. Good luck on making an exceptional Model more accurate to the time she was lost.

Go to this post

Edited September 23, 2019 by KevDen

[amateur]

I can't think anything else than Jud having removed his post....

(btw: also hitting the like-button results in a notification that someone reacted to a post)

 

Jan

[ccoyle]

8 hours ago, KevDen said:

Gents, being new here I have a (maybe dumb) question.

 

That is, when I looked at my email notifications today I saw the below. But when I clicked on the 'go to this post' button, it goes to this page, but the post itself does not show, That is the last post that I see is from Jan above (not Jud as below).

 

What am I missing?

I personally do not use the email notifications option, so I'm not familiar with all of its particular pitfalls, but you're likely to get more traction on your question if you post it in the Questions & Instructions forum.

 

Cheers!

[jud]

I removed my post and the attached photo of a Twin Bofors because it lead away from the modification to the model being discussed and that was not my intent. Bad habit, see something that triggers a memory or opinion and I post it, usually inappropriately. Photo reveals why I did not like the shields in the drawings, regunning, replacing worn out barrels.

[KevDen]

Thanks for the input gents, seems Jan was right with his initial observation (as to what 'happened' to the post in question).

 

Now Jud, re something you had said in that 'removed' post (which by the way I certainly thought had its place here);

 

"Looks like another of model of a twin Bofors is in order as an aid to fabrication and fitting of that shield."

 

I may be misreading you, but my understanding is that those shields were one off's (well "8 off's" actually), that is they were custom made circa early 1942 somewhere in Indonesia only for the eight twin Bofors (four apiece) on Java and De Ruyter. So, 'model-maker-wise', specific only for those two ship builds. I have never seen shields shaped like that, or resembling those on any other ship. Now I don't know about the De Ruyter kit, but as Piet said, they are in the Java kit, he just seemingly simply overlooked them / or decided to not use them first time round with his build. And maybe that was because, like I said in an earlier post, most historical photos don't show them, and unless specifically pointed out, the majority of people are still not aware they were there. So one may be inclined to think, and forgiven for thinking so, that they were in the Java kit by 'mistake' as it were. Anyway, I certainly look forward to seeing them fitted on his model when he gets time to do so, as he does such fine work.

 

And re your following;

 

"The Sight Setter position in the above photo, with his back to the camera, that drew my attention, he must have been exposed in front of the new shield installation."

 

Yeah, he must have been the guy that spilled the officers tea that morning 😉 and probably felt rather expendable stuck out there so exposed while the others were 'ensconced' behind the relative protection afforded by the shields. He certainly drew the short straw anyway!

 

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by KevDen

[Dick Bolderman]

Incredible model. Beautifull made. 

 

As I read that your father was on the Hr. Ms. Java. My grandfather was the boatsman on this ship ( I don't know yet if there were more boatsmen on the ship, but in that case he was one of them. )

 

He was also one of the survivors after the attack. 

The rest of the war he became a POW. Fukuoka 2b ( Nagasaki) and a few weeks before the A-bom  would be drop on Nagasaki he was transported to Fukuoka 6.

I am trying to make website about his story and I saw a lot of images in your post.

So I was curious were those pictures came from. Some of them I already have, but this would be nice to share it in the website.

I have to work on the website,  it's already to long ago that I made a post.

 

The website is not ready, but some pages are filled:

https://bootsmanmeurs.nl/

 

Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

With kind regards, 

Dick. 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Dick Bolderman