Vasa deck shift

[BLACK VIKING]

Hi all I am just about to start planking the deck of my Vasa and having trouble finding the proper shift of the main deck. The references I have found seems to contradict each other one is a three shift and another one looks like four. Very confusing.

Thanks for any help 

Rgd Martyn 

[marktiedens]

Hi Martyn - from what I understand from the Vasa forum there is no definite deck plank shift.  According to the museum research director,the planks were all different lengths & widths. They seem to have used whatever they had on hand that would fit into the spaces. In other words,they seem to have made it up as they went along!  It would be difficult to replicate all the different widths on a model,but random lengths would appear to be acceptable as long as the plank ends don`t line up side by side.  If you would like,I can give you a link to the forum - the museum research director is on that forum and is happy to answer questions about the ship.

 

Mark

Edited December 11, 2018 by marktiedens

[druxey]

Take a look at on-line photographs of Vasa. You can't get more accurate information than that!

[BLACK VIKING]

Thanks Mark and druxey for the help. If you could put up the link Mark I would be most grateful. Thanks again for the help. Martyn 

[marktiedens]

Here you go - hope the link works....

 

http://warshipvasa.freeforums.net/

 

By the way,the research director`s name is Fred Hocker.

 

 

Mark

Edited December 11, 2018 by marktiedens

[BLACK VIKING]

Thanks Mark the link works fine and have joined. Nothing like first hand knowledge. 

Martyn

[dafi]

Do every possibly "nodo" imaginable - and that usually you would get your head bitten off here in the forum - and you are most possibly near the reality. As stated all planks have different widths and lengths, the pattern is most random possible and on the quarter deck there are in 1 (one) point/edge 4 (four!) planks joining*** ...

 

XXXDAn

 

*** all different width off course 😉

Edited December 17, 2018 by dafi

[dafi]

Here is a sketch I found. Just dare it! Keepers of the holy grails of planking patterns look away!

 

Build the real thing and you will be expelled from the forum 😉

 

XXXDAn

Edited December 18, 2018 by dafi

[mtaylor]

Ah.. the original "check the scrap box, mate" when looking for lumber.

[druxey]

Waste not, want not. That style of planking wouldn't do in 18th century British naval dockyards, though!

[Mike Y]

It might be also explained (partially) by a mix of Dutch and Swedish shipbuilding traditions - Vasa was built by a mixed team of workers, with some weird things like mixed up dimensions (there was an Amsterdam foot and Stockholm foot back then, and they were not the same). There were few rulers found inside the hull, referencing different measurement systems.

Fred Hocker's book is a nice read, if one is interested...

Not just the planking is off, but gunports barely line up, shifted randomly to fit the frames around them, one side is higher than the other, etc. This is a very rare artefact of human sloppiness, since I doubt that "just dig the scrap pile" was a method proudly documented for later generations. 

[BLACK VIKING]

Cheers for all the feedback guys and looking at the plan of the decks omg that's really all over the place but I can see how it happened as Mike said they had two different measurements from the different rules one being 12 inch to the foot the other 10 inch to the foot certainly made for confusion  

Martyn 

[amateur]

Yes, but also the wrecks found in the Netherlands show rather artistic use of timber. Regulated building didn't exist: as long as it was watertight and floated, it was OK.

 

Jan

[Baker]

On 12/18/2018 at 8:23 PM, dafi said:

Here is a sketch I found. Just dare it! Keepers of the holy grails of planking patterns look away!

 

Build the real thing and you will be expelled from the forum 😉

oops.
I planned to do something like this pattern with the deck of my Golden Hind. 

 

Thanks for the sketch, very interesting

[BLACK VIKING]

Oh well that's me off the forum  trouble is mine is still to neat  

Martyn

[dafi]

 

2 hours ago, Mike Y said:

Not just the planking is off, but gunports barely line up, shifted randomly to fit the frames around them, one side is higher than the other, etc. This is a very rare artefact of human sloppiness, since I doubt that "just dig the scrap pile" was a method proudly documented for later generations. 

I would not call it sloppiness, simply the awareness for symmetrical build was not jet developed 🙂

 

Why bothering about it, this was not the problem of this ship and would the basic trim have been better, it would have perfectly done the job. On top of it, if I remember well, they ran out of suitable timber towards the end of the build, as it was not foreseen that the ship would become that big when they put the material for the build aside.

 

The fine art of clean build just was developed later on, and then one can discuss which planking scheme to use. But still many model makers discuss lengthily the scheme up and down and still do not realize that for a long time still curved planks were in use 😉

 

XXXDAn

Edited December 19, 2018 by dafi

[Ulises Victoria]

When I built my Vasa, I came up with the same problem/question. My research indicated that there was not a fixed pattern on the decks of Vasa.

This is how I planked mine.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Ulises Victoria

[thibaultron]

I read the Red Bay books on the Basque whaling ships of the 1500s. Same thing. Different materials used from frame to frame, random hull planking, including one short plank that only went between adjacent frames. The tree nails in the hull were drilled with the left one at the top and the second below and to the right of it in some sections, and the opposite in others, etc.

[dafi]

The same for Mary Rose 🙂

[Baker]

Indeed

Your Vasa drawing (above) and the Mary Rose deck (below)