Golden Hind by mfrazier - OcCre - scale 1:85

[mfrazier]

I have a question. I am wondering if the scale of the ship I am building (1:85) would it be noticeable to take the time to serve the various rigging lines. Some of these lines are very small. I would like some feedback on this from you more experienced fellows. I have never served any lines before and would like to know when or if the line is too small to make it practical. I never heard of serving before I got this model to build and this kit doesn't even mention these details. This rigging is new to me and I am trying to study up on it some while waiting for my parts to arrive. Any tips would be appreciated.

 

Mark F.

[vossiewulf]

I would do the serving, but I'm fairly high on the stickler for details scale. Look at it this way, chances are you'll end up working in 1/64 or 1/48 and they will seem easy after doing it correctly in 1/85.

 

That said, taking an easier route through your first model isn't a horrible idea; you learn so much during the building that it probably won't end up at the front of your display cabinet. Just getting a feel for rigging and masting and hull construction in your first effort and then buckling down on the accuracy and difficulty in the next might be the best way.

[Bob Cleek]

Hi Mark!  You're doing great for a first effort. Obviously, you are a skilled "maker," and it's just the subject matter that's new to you.

 

Vossie has given you good advice. I'll just clarify what appears to be a misconception about serving. It's only the "standing" rigging that is served, i.e. the "ropes" that don't move, mainly the "shrouds" which run from the masts to the sides of the ship and the "stays" which run parallel to the centerline of the ship. The "running" rigging, which moves to control the sails and spars and such isn't served. We'd all be in the looney bin by now if all the line on a model had to be served!   If you have a lathe in your shop, you won't need a "serving machine" because you've already got one. Just run the line through the headstock, securing it at the head in a chuck or however you wish and at the tailstock with a swivel so that when the lathe is run (slowly) the whole line turns rather than twisting. The excess line can be secured at the outer end of the headstock so it turns with the working part of the line and doesn't twist up and kink. One of those swivels they sell for fishing rigs to keep lures from kinking the line when they spin works well for a "live" end on the tailstock.) You can then tie a thread onto the taut portion of line between the headstock and tailstock and, holding the spool of thread in your hand, serve the shroud or stay easily and quickly. It takes a bit of practice, but it's easy to get the hang of it.

 

I also strongly suggest you get a copy of Frank Mastini's book Ship Modeling Simplified: Tips and Techniques for Model Construction from Kits. It's in print in paperback and runs about $16.  Amazon and Barnes and Noble have it, of course, and somebody is selling them on eBay with free shipping for only $8 right now.

 

 

 

Mastini's book is a general introduction to kit building for folks starting out and, for that purpose, it's excellent. If you get involved in the hobby, you'll quickly find yourself amassing a library of reprints of Eighteenth and Nineteenth Century treatises on naval architecture, ship rigging and naval ordinance, but that will come in due course. Mastini's book addresses the somewhat standard practices of the kit manufacturers and answers a lot of questions raised by the manufacturers' often too brief instructions. If memory serves, it also contains a translation glossary of nautical terms in French, Spanish and Italian, so one can figure out what the foreign language instructions are talking about. I'd consider it a must for a first time kit builder. It will save you a lot of grief and frustration.

[mfrazier]

Thanks guys. I think I will serve lines on this model (especially for practice). You are correct that the building is not a problem for me, it is learning the terminology and what standard practices should be. I have a degree in engineering and have been a master machinist and tool and die maker most of my life and wood working has also been a hobby for about 30 years. I got this kit as a sort of test run because my next project will be a larger model built from scratch. ( I am used to building things from scratch and drawing and reading blue prints). I always liked ships and this is on my bucket list. I am hoping my health and mobility lasts as many more years as it will take to build the ship of my dreams. I am a little slower than I used to be. I have had a couple heart attacks, open heart surgery, a couple of strokes (after which I now have trouble with numbers), tremors on my left side, and severe spinal stenosis which messes up my balance and ability to walk. 

      I downloaded and printed several articles found about planking hulls and decking. I also found and downloaded a very large list of terminology and their explanations to refer to. The next ship I build , I want at a scale where the hull will be in the range of about 2 feet long. This will allow a much higher detail level. I don't know how long it will take to build, but I hope my health and life lasts as long as I need. 

    I am ordering a few of the books you have recommended. I spent my life learning everything I can about anything I can and this is a new adventure and world of knowledge.

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2019 by mfrazier
Spell5

[mfrazier]

While waiting for the wood I ordered to arrive, I raided the junk ( I mean inventory) box in my shop and started to put together a serving machine. The gears are 2" diameter RC car gears I machined aluminum hubs for to mount on the shafts. After trial fitting everything, it turns smoothly. I put nylon bushings for bearings in the oak wood frame so I can motorize it later. I still have to make a crank for each end. This little machine will cost me "zero" dollars since I had everything lying around already. I'll post a finished photo as soon as it is done.

[vossiewulf]

Looks like a nice sturdy machine, nice job.

[nel2lar]

Mark

Very nice build, I never thought about ships but that is a wonderful hobby.

Your ship is looking very nice, love your alterations. 

Don't think about time or health you are going to be fine.

Nelson

[mfrazier]

I got the wood I needed and finished the mezzanine on the rear and started adding the railings.

 

I put a matte finish on the decks. 

I won't have a lot of time for the next few weeks, but try to spend a couple of hours each evening working on it to unwind.

[vossiewulf]

Looks good Mark, and that's the right way to do it- even if you don't have lots of time to work on it, even spending 15 minutes moving something along will help. You still have a reasonable distance to go with the fitting out of the hull and all the rigging.

[mfrazier]

I am finally getting back to my ship model after most of a year of health problems and "life".  I have been working on the hull some and working on details.

 

 

[mfrazier]

I took a break from the hull while I  make some decisions  and built the mast assemblies.  I will install them later. These were the most difficult thing on this model so far. Trying to hold and glue these tiny pieces, several at a time was a very difficult task. But I got it done. 

[mfrazier]

After three hours of working with photo editing software,  I  was able to satisfactorily fix a horrible mistake. I tried to glue the paper graphic onto the stern of the ship with paper glue. It did not work. The glue softened the paper and the graphic fell apart trying to place it. I  spent days trying to think of a solution. The only photo of this graphic I had was on the instructions but it was at an angle so the view was skewed. I took a photo and spent hours tweaking, cutting and pasting until I  finally straightened the view. I printed out the new graphic and use double sided scotch tape to  apply it. It is not perfect but will do the job. I  also applied the etched brass windows.  That was another educational experience. I  used a drop of CA glue and only had about 5 seconds to place them, which sometimes wasn't enough.  In retrospect,  I  probably should have gotten some glue with a little more work time. 

Edited January 31, 2020 by mfrazier
Spelling

[mfrazier]

I have made an incorrectable mistake,  but in my own defense it was from following the instructions ( term used very loosely) . I placed the "boards" ? That hold the deadeyes for the shroud lines on the hull according to the instructions, which also show the chain plates? Fastening straight up and down. Now, realizing they would be better angled to match the shroud lines,  it is too late to move them, so I will do it like the instructions.  But I  will know better on my next build. But that is the purpose for this build, to learn as I  don't want to learn on my next project as it is priced very high.

Edited February 2, 2020 by mfrazier
Info

[mfrazier]

I finished my little serving machine today. I made it from scrap material in my shop. I have a total of about $10 in it for screws and the brass tubing. I works really smooth and easy.

[mfrazier]

I bought paint to paint the graphics on my ship but after attempting to paint the graphic on a scrap piece of wood,  I found I couldn't do it because my tremors are too bad for that precise of painting. Soooooo......what to do? I  decided to try to use the printed graphics supplied in the kit, but the last time I put glue to this paper it fell apart. I raided my mate's craft room and found the perfect adhesive.  It is the sealer for her Mod Podge. This is a thin water based adhesive.  It goes on white but dries clear so it doesn't show. It worked well to glue the graphics on the wood. They aren't quite as nice as paint would have been, but they are acceptable. 

Edited February 5, 2020 by mfrazier
Spelling

[mfrazier]

Soooooo..... I  tried out my little serving machine and it works excellent. In the photo, you can see the difference in the string before and after serving. Yes it is some work, but I  think well worth the effort. I do want to motorize it though.

Edited February 5, 2020 by mfrazier
Spelling

[Mike Dowling]

I find your ingenuity quite amazing, you are a very clever chap. Your build so far is terrific. I am intrigued to know what your next build is going to be as you say it is expensive.

[mfrazier]

23 minutes ago, Mike Dowling said:

I find your ingenuity quite amazing, you are a very clever chap. Your build so far is terrific. I am intrigued to know what your next build is going to be as you say it is expensive.

Okay, I'll let the cat out of the bag. This build was to learn more about ships and learn practices and techniques. I have built many things in my life,  but a large detailed model ship is on my bucket list. I am planning to build the Sovereign of the Seas if I  can find the kit. It is always out of stock (or maybe it just has to be special ordered). If I can't get the S o S, I may have to do the HMS Victory, but that is not my first choice. 

 

Mark 

[mfrazier]

I got the masts mounted today. I am going to start installing the shroud lines. I got my improvement parts from Ages of Sail today. The most important part I was waiting on was the gunport frames and doors.  The little plywood squares that were in the kit were poor at best. These frames and doors really make a difference. The following photos show them. I ground the extensions off the back so I can glue them to the hull. I painted the hinges and frames flat black and used the stain for the hull to color them to match as close as possible.

    I  also ordered a better lantern for the stern. This one in the photo is a big improvement. 

[mfrazier]

These cannon ports are much better than the little piece of ply wood from the kit.

[mfrazier]

Well, after my research on the Sovereign of the seas ship model and that I found more bad reviews than good.  I decided that I would build the HMS Victory. I ordered the kit today from Billings Boats in England. I downloaded the more than 40 pages of illustrated instructions and was very impressed.  I also liked the scale better than others. It is 1:74. The total length of the model is 54 inches and total height 35 inches. At this size I  believe I  can embellish the build with a lot of detail. I will start it when it arrives and do the rigging on my Golden Hind between steps on the Victory. 

[DanielD]

Nice job on the cannon ports, wish I had thought of that before mounting mine. Well done sir...

 

Daniel

[mfrazier]

6 hours ago, DanielD said:

Nice job on the cannon ports, wish I had thought of that before mounting mine. Well done sir...

 

Daniel

I spend a lot of time on the model kit sites looking for a better quality part or a good embellishment to make any improvements or better detail. I  am learning a lot with this build and my next one is much larger so I can work on details better.

[mfrazier]

I wasn't impressed with the little wooden ring in the kit for the base of the mast, so I  found these nice bronze ones to make the detail nicer.

[mfrazier]

I started installing the shroud lines today. I am so glad some of you suggested serving the lines. The quality and appearance difference is astounding.  It really makes a big difference. Rigging these deadeyes is really difficult and time consuming (especially when you have tremors).the rigging is going to go slowly and take quite some time.

[mfrazier]

I placed the lines from the masts so I could use them to pull the masts straight and hold them. I did this now so it wouldn't affect the other lines later. I am pleased so far, but the rigging instructions are so vague,  they show the various lines and how they go to the blocks, but leave no clue where they go to tie off. I looked at several builds on you tube and none of the rigging on them is even close to being the same.  This led me to believe they ran into the same problem and just used their imagination. I will study some more.

[mfrazier]

I didn't like the little cast metal cannon carriage that came in the kit, so I made a wooden carriage. It looks a lot better. Now only 3 more to make. In the last photo, you can see the two compared.

[Old Collingwood]

Very nice work  - its difficult  making a small ship  detailed  and true to life  as many kit  fittings tend to be over scaled,   I have been over one of the actual replica Hinds  and can vouch  for how small they are.

 

With regards to your next  build  Victory  I will  look forward to that  - that will be crying out for all your  extra details.

 

OC.

[mfrazier]

11 minutes ago, Old Collingwood said:

Very nice work  - its difficult  making a small ship  detailed  and true to life  as many kit  fittings tend to be over scaled,   I have been over one of the actual replica Hinds  and can vouch  for how small they are.

 

With regards to your next  build  Victory  I will  look forward to that  - that will be crying out for all your  extra details.

 

OC.

I am anxious for the kit to arrive 

[mfrazier]

I got the four deck cannons built. I put rings on the carriage for the ropes to the hull, but not sure I can do that small work in that small space. I will try though.