HMS Victory by Kevin-the-lubber - Heller - 1:100 - PLASTIC - with 3D printed additions

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Thanks Hubac, it's mostly a question of being able to think, when I attach the last bit of rigging in 10 years time, that I've done the best I could - and I think I can do a bit better on these things. 

 

I had one go at dry-brushing but that didn't come out so well. The great thing about acrylics, at least the one's I'm using, is that it's very easy to scrub paint off if you don't like the end result. So now I'm about to try yellow first, then ink in between with an ultra fine artists pen. You have to admire the craftsmanship that went into the design and mould-making for this model, the level of detail is simply fabulous. 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

March 2021: Work in progress.... scratch built stern plate, mostly modelled in Fusion 360, printed in resin. The end aim is that this will go together as a mini-kit that allows the ochre-coloured parts to be painted prior to assembly so that the lines are completely clean and largely slot into place in the pre-painted black plate. This is the first proper print of the plate and top windows and I have some work to do on the fit clearances, which currently are too tight at 100 microns (0.1mm). Also, on thicknesses - go too thin and you become a hostage to the brittleness of resin, parts can snap during clean-up. It fits surprisingly well to the hull though, but needs the odd tweak here and there. Also need to convert the trials of items like the balustrades, scrolls, figurines, ropes etc into kit pieces i.e. add location pins or grooves, some of which will be further improved, especially the trophy, but it's coming along well enough. I particularly like the rope work, it comes out so beautifully in resin. I've taken licence and changed those two portholes to follow the curve, as that's how they appear on photos of the real thing. And then next will be the side galleries. These will be more challenging as the geometry is devilishly complex and I have a feeling I'm going to need to model the stern section of the hull itself, using Anatomy of the Ship drawings as the start point, as a means to the end. For the stern, I've used the model itself as the key reference (as it obviously has to fit to that!) but re-designed a lot of the detail to be more consistent with photos of the real thing.

 

 

[Hubac's Historian]

WOW!!  That is just completely fascinating and incredible.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Still chipping away at it.... renders of (maybe) final modelling of everything so far, bar the lowest rail, which still needs a small bit of work to make it a kit part. The zigzag lines are not real of course, just the software can do. Everything yellow is a separate part, fits into place on the stern plate, either in a recess or via locating pins (the toothed rail). For anyone interested, the ideal clearance seems to be 0.2mm as a rule of thumb. I overlap wherever possible but even where this isn't possible, the join gaps are virtually non-existent in test pieces.

 

Lower balustrade next, then all the really tricky bits, the scrolls, figurines and trophy. The name has to wait until I mirror to create the whole thing. There's so much sketch detail underlying this that I doubt the software could cope with everything doubled as I go. The plan is to try to make the scrollwork integral to the toothed rail and lower balustrade respectively, whether that'll be printable I don't yet know. Otherwise maybe dovetails to link them post-printing. Everything is straightforward-ish when done in the flat as per the trial parts, but much less so when doing it true to the curved face plate. The ropework is probably a bit over-scaled but it's such a pretty feature I will at least leave it this size for the first print, paint and join.

 

Note to self - remember to add the location holes for the lanterns!

 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

29/5/21

 

 

 

 

Closer… needed to take a break from staring at lines on a screen and see where it’s at in the flesh. I didn't bother cleaning up the parts hence plenty of artifacts, just printed, quick bit of airbrushing, stick it all together. It's not quite as good as I'd hoped for, 90%, but maybe I can squeeze another 5% through tweaking the design. This is officially MK2, in reality more like MK20 on the design side. I had to start again after the screenshots in the previous post, as my beginners Fusion 360 methodology first time round was dreadful and the file was becoming almost unusable. Certainly learned a lot about F360 along the way though.

 

I still have some things that need work; the scrolls coming off the lower window balustrade, the bits either side of the lower window, the trophy, the glazing; if translucent resin works as hoped, a piece of cake, if not, I’ll probably try clear plastic film. I hope it’s the former as I have plans for the lanterns and skylight. Then the side galleries, which look like a 3D nightmare – plan A is to try re-creating the rear-most section of the hull in F360 so that, between that and the stern plate, I have datums. Plan B is not yet in existence. Plan C is Ebay and tending to my overgrown garden. May take a bit of a break or do some easy stuff like cannons in between times. No shortage of jobs on this project.

 

The stern plate: ultimately had to split it into two parts as I couldn’t get a decent result printing as one piece. Need a bigger printer. You can just see the seam running across the lower balustrade, easy to blend it in when I go to final. Everything yellow apart from the scrolls and figures sits in grooves, for more ‘seamlessness’ and locatability. A prize to whoever spots the assembly error - (free advice to add locating pins on everything).

 

Windows: obviously not a straight copy of Hellers, 0.3mm bars are much nicer (thank you for the inspiration Dafi) and I’ve opted for something midway between the plastic model and the real thing in terms of sills and framing. I’ve followed the broad dimensions and positioning of Heller, despite this being not very true to life. I’ve discovered a new problem after painting last night: the lower window seems to have swollen a fraction causing distortion when fitting -- seem to have broken a bar due to this, at 0.3mm x 0.5mm deep they break easily, expect less so once glazed. A tad more clearance should resolve that. Same with the letters – ‘R’ just wouldn’t sit in it’s recess. Same with the rope, LH side fine, RH side was too tight and I made a mess getting it back off for a quick trim, CA sets quick. Spoiled the black paintwork too, fiddling about. If the clearances are just right, things drop in as a snug fit with no touching up required afterwards.

 

Balustrades: took more licence here as it would be impossible to see, with the naked eye,  a recreation of the true carving on the rails; the scrollwork would be 0.1mm thick. So, basically square with chamfers and fillets. Good enough. Also shifted away from the dimensions of the model a bit, to suit the windows.

 

The proportions of the windows and balustrades on the model are not that true to real thing, on which the rows of windows themselves are more or less equal in height, as are the balustrades. The sill work makes them look different heights. The assembly in the photos is still a proof of concept rather than the final cut and, once I’ve dealt with the side galleries, I’ll probably look again at whether the deck positions allow me to shift proportions closer to the reality. This is relatively easy in F360. That said, the decreasing height on the model is nice in it’s own way, plays to that architects trick for making things look taller and more grandiose, and the stern should be nothing if not grandiose.

 

More in a few weeks, months, years!

 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

or hours.... quick look at the trophy I made a few months back. Fits fairly well, will pull round to the curve of the 'teeth' decor, think I'll stick with this.

 

[Ian_Grant]

Fantastic Kevin!  If you wanted you could sell this "stern kit" on the market...........

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Thanks Ian, it'd be nice to recoup some of the cost - I don't even dare think in terms of time spent! Let's see how the side galleries go. You couldn't use this 'kit' with the stock sides as the lower window rails aren't true copies of the Heller, nor are they in the same position. That would have been way too hard (or too tedious) for me. But you're right, if it all comes out well it would make a lovely aftermarket kit.

[Hubac's Historian]

As I’ve said before, this work is spectacular!

 

I agree that the rope border is maybe a bit over-scale, but the effect is pleasing and I don’t think I would change it.  The question, related to that, is whether you will have enough clearance to fold the scroll at the far ends of the mid-tier of windows.  I think you will.

 

Although I may be perceived as a “turgid member” by others of the forum - for even venturing a guess - I will propose that your construction fault is one of omission;  on the stock sternplate (and the actual ship, though I’m not inclined to look it up right now - turgidity levels remain high 😬!!), there are corbel-like structures that bookend the lower tier of windows.

 

What I find incredible about this approach is the facility to key-in locations for all of the ornamental elements, thus eliminating placement errors.  There just isn’t a lot of margin for error at 1:100, which I consider the dividing line of the “big” scales.

 

Your Victory will still be a big model, but the constituent parts are tiny!  You are making an incredible job of it with an innovative approach to modeling.  Fantastic work!

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Hi Hubac, I love the rope in this form, in fact all the slightly thicker decoration. It gives more texture and relief, especially when viewed at an angle, and I'll definitely stick with this.

 

Corbels - of course! I've been racking my brains for what these would be called, in the 3D file I've nicknamed them 'bumpers'! I do have them modelled but the filigree is so tiny and I haven't yet thought of a way to print it that wouldn't result in it breaking while taking it off the plate, or being virtually impossible to clean up. And a lesson learned on this model is that the smaller and finer the part, the more any mistake or cut corner will show up.

 

You kind of picked it up through the question about the scrolls - I put them on wrong-handed, left should be on the right and vice versa, hence note to self to add pins. But you're right, currently they are every so slightly too wide but this is literally 10 minutes work to change. Imagine the heartsink if you'd made them from scratch out of styrene! I take my hat off to those on here who do that kind of stuff, it's way beyond my skills.

 

Turgidity is good - as I'm sure you know, you can become so buried in the project that you get tunnel vision and need critical friends to tell you what you could do better.

 

Figured out the lower window issue - it's not swollen, just too much paint. I can solve that with some modelling tweaks. I'm very inexperienced with an airbrush and have had a hellish time with vallejo model air yellow ochre, it clogs the airbrush within 15 or 30 seconds. Primer and black are fine, it's just the yellow, so if anyone has tips or suggestions please share. (Actually, just about everything on this model is a new experience!).

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Glazing test, just the top row. First go with elegoo translucent resin. Not bad, not bad at all. Printed as a strip just to make it easier to know which pane is which, the tabs get snipped off for fitting. It has a slightly pearl finish on one side, glossy on the other. I believe it's possible to polish translucent objects for greater transparency, I guess the opacity comes from the pearly side. Though I could also just use it as a template for clear film. I haven't yet decided whether to furnish the cabins. It'd be so easy in 3D it would be a shame not to, but that's a decision for later on, and if I decide against, these will be fine just as they are.

 

I'll be popping down to Portsmouth soon for a proper photo session, as it's only an hour or so away. If anyone reading has been there recently, do you know if it's possible to get a good, square on sight line of the stern from across the quay? 

 

[Veszett Roka]

20 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

 

I'll be popping down to Portsmouth soon for a proper photo session, as it's only an hour or so away. If anyone reading has been there recently, do you know if it's possible to get a good, square on sight line of the stern from across the quay? 

 

 

Hi Kevin,

 

When i was there in the last millenium, it was possible from a car park and with a good teleobjective lens (i have a 200mm telezoom). I marked the spot by red. Another picture was taken on the blue spot, if the first one is too far or closed from public, i hope that one will be open near the Mary Rose museum.

 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Thanks Veszett, that's exactly the info I needed. Hopefully that spot is still accessible.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

I didn't manage to make the trip to V@P as planned last week, hopefully some time over the summer. Meanwhile, work on the side galleries progresses. Devilishly tricky and time-consuming. I'm making a few changes from the stock version; all one piece rather than two (though the final version will still be in kit form), lower windows narrower, and when I get to it, I'll try to model in the floors and loos in situ as these should help for precise fitting; and I'll do one thing I've never understood Heller omitting - locating pins for the galleries to stern plate, or something that means it fits here and only here.

 

The photo is a 'free-standing' version, just so I could get my head around it, understand what I was trying to do and what problems I'd need to overcome. It actually fits quite nicely! I'm now adapting all of that work across to the main file and, once I've got the panels and rails aligned, it'll be time to give it a whirl on the printer and start tweaking everything for a decent fit. Oh, and then no doubt spend many, many hours on the scrollwork and balustrades. If I don't surface again within a year, please send out a search party in a small boat, I may have fallen overboard.

 

Incidentally, there's an artifact of resin printing which shows up well in the photo - you can get a lovely woodgrain effect for exactly the same reason you get it on real wood, the build up of tiny layers. Works best on curved and irregular surfaces. It's very subtle and completely out of scale but I think I'll keep as I like it, makes the parts look less plastic.

 

Back to work...  

 

 

[Baker]

When I see what is possible with modern technology. 

Very very nice work 

When I retire (31 december 2024), i go back to school and learn to draw things on a computer and print them with a 3d printer.

 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

We’re on more or less the same retirement trajectory. Feb 25 for me, all going well. With a bit of luck I should be just starting work on the lower deck by then🥵. Be warned, because so much is possible it’s an absolute rabbit hole. I initially thought this would be quicker and better than making things by hand from styrene. It’s clearly better, but definitely not quicker!

[Hubac's Historian]

Every time I visit your model, I marvel at what you are teaching yourself to do.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Thank you - every time I visit it, I marvel that I still haven't yet, in a fit of pique, set fire to the computer. I enjoy the learning, keeps the old grey matter busy.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Marc, I should have added, I am not even dreaming of your standard on the Soleil Royale. That is truly extraordinary - what I'm doing is just the application of my old trade skills and a growing knowledge of CAD, anyone could do this if they really wanted to. And by comparison, the Victory looks like a beginners model (which of course I am!). I don't know yet whether you've put me off trying the SR for life or made me want to have a go even more - I so love all the impeccable detail, the texture, the colours. Thankfully though, right now I don't have nearly enough skill to even dip my toe in the water of that pond.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

To digress slightly;

 

Here’s a little detail that’s aroused my curiosity. When I first noticed this in photos, it just appeared as a thin line at the bottom of stern photos and I assumed it was some caulking done during the current restoration programme, awaiting painting. But when I enlarged this photo to get a better look at the pretty decorations at the bottom of the side galleries, I noticed those small, regular ‘cusps’ on the line, and coupled with the colour in this photo – ochre – this detail now looks more like decoration. This is absent on Heller and I don’t think I’ve seen it on other models; nor is it present in any other photos in my web collection, though that may be down to the angle of the photo. Or it could have been removed during restoration as there is so much wood-rot in the stern, and been subsequently put back.

This is an area of the stern where I am struggling to find, via the web, any photos that clearly show how this lower-most section of the side gallery knits into the stern plate. Heller seems to have the rear edge of the small piece of the side galleries sitting very slightly back /offset from what I call the rudder plate i.e. it protrudes from the side of the hull rather than sitting flush with the rudder plate. That would make sense of this detail, which would then sit in a corner. Likewise the short return of the architrave, which would otherwise end in space, whereas an indented bottom would have it ending in a corner. At the moment, my plan is to indent just a little and try to incorporate that corner detail, though it’s so small it may not be very practical. Or maybe better done with a little bit of evergreen down the line. I’d certainly welcome any better shots of this area though.

 

And this photo is just one that made me smile. I’m in the middle of many hours of modelling the side gallery to the stern plate, mostly getting the compound joints of the rails to align. This is quite tricky given there’s barely a flat surface to work from, the rails have to twist along their length, etc etc. There’s a lot of trimming and lengthening involved: I move a rail a fraction of a millimetre, I then have to adjust the width of the stern, the angle of the compound joint (which of course then goes out of alignment) the cut from side to stern and so on. I chuckled therefore when I saw that the original builders struggled with the same issues and, it appears settled for a very slight bodge, as this is true for both side galleries.

 

 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Note to self - do your homework better next time. Now that I look back through my chaotically filed photos I see it's present on loads of them, just looks like caulking. And, strangely, that small piece of architrave does just end where it ends. Strange. I'm not quite sure where to go with this now. I  like the idea of running the side gallery completely flush with the rudder plate but don't like the way this ends at all.

 

[Hubac's Historian]

Thank you very much, Kevin!  The SR project began with certain very specific alteration objectives, but it quickly took on a life all its own, once I realized how relatively simple it was to make parts and details from scratch. Like you, I’m simply applying my trade skills as a woodworker and woodcarver to this smaller scale.  Fortunately, this project is the perfect outlet for my OCD and obsessive love for the ship.

 

The Heller SR makes into a very nice model, even if you do little more than raise the waterline and thicken the gunport openings.  It would, of course be completely fascinating to see you remake the stern through the application of your CAD skills.

 

That is an interesting detail, where Vic’s lower finishing joins the counter.  I have never seen that before, myself.  Also, it is heartening to see that the original builders were, themselves, prone to a little fudgery, here and there, to make things work.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Hubac's Historian

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Raise the waterline? I haven’t spotted that one in my reading of build logs so far, could you tell me more? Once I’ve got the stern more or less finished I plan to go back to the admirals entrance and side steps - I’m not happy enough with my first attempt (which was probably more like my 3rd or 4th) - and know that the lowest step was right at the bottom of the wale. Or is it just a question of moving the paintwork a little higher?

 

The stern of the SR would be massively challenging in CAD. Not the basic structure, nor the more geometric mouldings, if you know what I mean, but all of those ‘not a straight line in sight’ details. At some point I have to learn one of the sculpting packages, I’m putting it off until I have no option because initial attempts have been frustrating, but I kind of know that, if I achieve the standard I’m aiming at for the stern and side entrance, I’ll inevitably want to work on the figurehead. I haven’t read enough of your log yet to understand what material you use when your sculpting, is it putty or plastic or wood? Because, despite favouring CAD and resin printing (for ease of modification) I can foresee that there are points where it would be more sensible to create by hand.

[Hubac's Historian]

Yes, for whatever reason, the moulded waterline on the Heller Soleil Royal creates the impression of an excessively shallow draft.  With her exceedingly tall stern, she looks as though she’ll capsize the instant she lets loose with a rolling broadside.  Raising the waterline 1/4 - 5/16” does much to correct this anomaly, visually.  I found it more expedient to simply cut the lower hull away and make it a diorama model; of course, doing so was the only way for me to even entertain broadening the hull, at the bow.  So, not to hijack your log with my project, but that is what I was referring to.

 

Most of my carving work is with evergreen sheet styrene.  It is lovely to carve, as it is considerably softer than the kit styrene, and you don’t have any alternating grain issues, as you do with wood.  If I don’t have sheets thick enough for the part I’m making, I simply laminate stock until I arrive at the dimension I need.

 

That being said, I will have to make a full figure relief for the Africa sculpture, and I do not think that I will do that in plastic; too much lamination required, so I’ll carve that one in boxwood, or pear.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Hubac's Historian

[Kevin-the-lubber]

That's interesting, I'll keep that in mind. I think it would be difficult if I go down the tiffany foil route, but straightforward if just painting and I haven't decided yet - probably try both as I have two kits.

 

I've just had a quick play with evergreen and see what you mean, it's like a hard soap, isn't it, very amenable. It had never occurred to me to sculpt it and I imagine it lends itself to heat forming as well. 

[Hubac's Historian]

Exactly!  Yes, the evergreen cuts smoothly and I end up doing a lot of scraping with the edge of a honed knife, in order to arrive at softly rounded surfaces.  I haven’t had much success with heat-bending, though.  I’ve tried curling irons, hairdryers and open flame.  In each instance, there is a flashpoint where the Evergreen sheet goes from bendy to a misshapen mess, in an instant.  Sometimes, I’ll laminate a bend into the plastic, over a form.  Often, as with my stern gallery bulwarks, I’ll induce a bend simply by taping the part around the outside of the breadcrumb canister and leaving it there for a few days.  When I remove the part, there is very little spring-back.  And, often enough, bends can be induced with your fingers.

 

Like you, I am intrigued by the use of metallic gilt foils.  I would think that it is quite tricky to get the foil only where you want it.  There is one very talented builder here, SafeMaster, who manages the art to perfection.  His Heller Reale looks as though it sailed right out of the 17th C. into modern times.  The gilt work is extraordinary, as is absolutely everything else about the model:

 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

7^th August 2021

Remember I said at the outset that my log is all about a novices journey, warts and all...

 

All is not well in the KTL shipyard.

 

This….

 

Is supposed to have been this…

 

  

… the consequence of which is this….

 

An expensive print failure, £70 worth of LCD printer screen destined for the recycling bin. This screen should look like a brand new, straight out of the box, tablet screen. That grey stuff is resin very firmly welded onto the screen now, making it useless.

 

For those who have no knowledge of 3D printing, all that ‘scaffolding’ is pretty much exactly that, it supports overhangs in the object as it gets printed layer by 0.05mm layer, but also, as this is a tall, thin structure, it supports the walls and edges. The object is orientated this way, for printing, to get the best result for the important edges and faces. What’s happened here is that, at a certain point, the partially printed object has lost the tug of war with the resin vat, the new layer of cured resin has stayed stuck to the bottom of the vat (it needs to peel off and be stuck to the object), a few more layers have joined it for good company, then at some point all of that build-up has re-attached to the object and the force of separation has torn holes in the super thin, delicate layer of clear plastic that forms the bottom of the resin vat (the FEP), allowing resin to leak onto the screen and become duly cured. Very frustrating. Screens are treated as consumables and I have a spare, but £70!!!!! And not even a finished object!!!!! I know this is 'operator error', the frustration is not yet understanding what I can do to avoid a repeat.

 

What I’m trying to do here is print the bodies of the stern and quarter galleries as one piece. All the décor gets printed separately (basically everything that isn’t painted black). The reason for a single piece body is because this solves various alignment problems with a three piece (stern + 2x quarter galleries). Or it will, once I get it to print.

 

This print is/was intended to be a ‘fitting’ stage, that allows me to make some final, minor tweaks to the quarter gallery profiles so that the whole assembly is a nice snug fit to the hull. The windows and rails are already modelled but their final shape is contingent on that of their respective quarter gallery segments.

 

I have to admit, with this being the second such failure (though the first didn’t wreck the screen), that I’m tempted to look again at just sanding off the Heller decoration and settling for new windows, balustrades, filigree etc all round. Except I think mine, if I can land it, will be better, because of the changes I’ve been able to add i.e. a better quarter gallery profile, thicker stern plate, counter running directly into the bottom of the quarter galleries. Plus I’ve been working on this for months and months and months now and to some degree getting a 'perfect' stern is a deal-breaker in terms of continuing with the model. (I use the term 'perfect' in a context that I'm sure every one of you will understand).

 

Despite the miserable weather here today, a weekend of gardening or, if it rains too much, interior decorating, methinks, while I seek advice from those who know a lot more about printing with resin.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Good progress. This is the 'good fit' test body. All that scaffolding on the back is the printing support work, which I've kept in place to help keep the piece as rigid as possible when test fitting; as I'm using an ABS-like resin there's a fair bit of flex (which is good), so this allowed me to slip feeler gauges between the quarter galleries and hull to get each segment snug without the edges flexing outwards and giving false readings. The photo shows it in a 'relaxed' position, not glued, just held in place by an elastic band through one of the rear windows. At glue time, the body will squeeze in easily for a tight fit.

 

From here, it's a case of now going back through the CAD modelling bit by bit, finalising the windows, balustrades, scrolls and rails. I've managed to turn a 3 piece section into a kit with around 50 or 60 parts 😂. No wonder it's taking so long!

 

[Bill97]

Kevin this is fascinating watching you work this out with the 3D printer.  Anxious to see the finished piece attached to the hull. I really like the decorative pieces for the stern plate. That will give you very clear sharp lines. I have no experience with 3D printers. Enjoy watching your progress. 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Currently I’m trying to stick to an old discipline I learned as a tradesman - do the most difficult things first, leave the easy stuff until last. So, I’m working on the scrolls, figurine and trophy (the hardest parts) before going back to the side windows, balustrades and decor, which I already have a proven methodology for. It’s a long, steady learning curve but I’m sure it’ll all pay off down the line and stuff like a new side entrance should be relatively easy when I come to it.