HMS Victory by mfrazier - Sergal 782 - 1:78 scale

[mfrazier]

Just now, Bill Morrison said:

Beautiful work, Mark!  

 

Thank you, Bill.

   I am finding it fun and challenging to try to make this kit into a better model.

[Edwardkenway]

2 hours ago, mfrazier said:

 

Keith,

I am not sure what edge you mean.

 

Mark

I think he means the edge of keel former that runs up the inside of the stern!

You're doing a fine job so far, its looking good 😁

[mfrazier]

32 minutes ago, Edwardkenway said:

I think he means the edge of keel former that runs up the inside of the stern!

You're doing a fine job so far, its looking good 😁

Thank you.  I thought that was what he meant. I tried it black at first but it looked worse to me.  I  now regret not having cut it  back but can't now as the base panel is glued on and I doubt it can be removed safely. It is a poor design on Mantua's part ( as are a lot of things). It  will show less once the glass is in the windows also.

 

Mark Frazier 

[clearway]

yep that is the one i meant- i dont think it will be noticable as most people will view her from the side but it is your build at the end of the day- i just gave mine a coat of dark oak stain internally.

 

Keith

[mfrazier]

I want to thank everyone for their input. It is good to have other opinions and ideas. Keep them coming.

 

I spent several hours fixing the stern base panels. As expected with this kit, they did not fit and needed slight modification. But they are as close as possible now. I cut out the windows in the side panels also.

I laid out all the gun ports and shifted three in the stern and six up front to try to avoid hitting bulkheads when I  cut them out, ( which is next). I decided to check the cannon height on the deck with respect to the gun ports and sure enough, they are way off. I'm glad I  checked this before cutting the ports. Seems I remember one of you fellows mentioning this problem with your kit and I  kept it in the back of my mind. 

You can see in the photo , I  raised them a good 1/8 inch. I also checked to make sure that last one that is under the stairs to the poop deck won't interfere with the stairs. I will have to add a board on top of the waist wall to make up for the shifted ports.

      I plan to cut the ports, then line them and sand flush. Then after second planking the ports will be recessed the 1 mm , as that is the thickness of the second plank layer. 

 

Mark Frazier 

Edited May 9, 2020 by mfrazier
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[clearway]

well spotted- proves ye olde joiners phrase "measure twice cut once"

 

Keith

[mfrazier]

6 hours ago, clearway said:

well spotted- proves ye olde joiners phrase "measure twice cut once"

 

Keith

Thanks Kieth.

I followed about six different build logs of the Victory on here and one of you fellows,  I  can't  remember who, had pointed this problem out during their build. If it wasn't for that, I  would have had the same problem with the port heights and the deck. This is one example of the valuable information that is shared among everyone here helping make kit builds a higher quality and more enjoyable experience. 

 

Mark Frazier 

[mfrazier]

While correcting problems and mistakes on the hull, I  was looking way ahead ( I  seem to do that a lot) I  spotted this on the plan prints. 

Can someone please explain what this is? There is no mention of it anywhere in the instructions or anything. I must be supposed to make this thingie as there isn't one anywhere in the kit parts.

 

Thanks in advance, 

Mark Frazier 

[mfrazier]

I meant to add this also.

It is a small roll of copper band. It's about 1/8 inch wide and fairly thick. I have no idea what it is for as I  can find no mention of it either. Anyone know what it is for?

 

Mark Frazier 

[Morgan]

22 minutes ago, mfrazier said:

While correcting problems and mistakes on the hull, I  was looking way ahead ( I  seem to do that a lot) I  spotted this on the plan prints. 

Can someone please explain what this is? There is no mention of it anywhere in the instructions or anything. I must be supposed to make this thingie as there isn't one anywhere in the kit parts.

 

Thanks in advance, 

Mark Frazier 

Mark,

 

It is to take the fluke of the anchor when it is stowed and help hold it in place.

 

Gary

[Gregory]

26 minutes ago, mfrazier said:

Can someone please explain what this is?

Do you have any more context?  A broader view of the plans?

 

I found this in Longridge.

 

[mfrazier]

Thanks guys. That makes sense. The photo Gregory posted above would have saved me asking if the prints would have showed it like that.. It would have been nice if Mantua at least mentioned it.  When I  get that far, I will try making it.

 

 

Mark Frazier 

Edited May 9, 2020 by mfrazier
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[mfrazier]

This kit drives me crazy some days. There are so many wrong things, I  have to constantly be checking and comparing. If I blindly follow the somewhat instructions and one print of construction details, I  would end up with a ship, but it wouldn't be the Victory. ( now I get off my soap box).

 

I decided that it would be best to lay everything on the hull out before going any farther to see how things will fit and look to see what is right, what is wrong, and what needs attention. So I got all the gun ports laid out and I  hope, so they will work. Now I  thought .... better check the wales. Now this is interesting. The next two photos are the kit version of the wales.

There doesn't seem to even be a lower wale. Just a board.

Now the next two photos are from McKay's book. 

BIG difference. Now..... I had been planning to TRY ... to cut the anchor stock and top and butt planking for the lower two wales..... But ... if I  can do as planned and stain instead of paint the ship, I  will have to come up with a combination of the two different layouts to accommodate the light and dark stained bands that representthepainted bands on the real ship. I am thinking of staining the wales with ebony black stain and using some yellow Alaskan cedar for the light bands. I probably won't have as much curve in the lower wales at the rear of the hull. I  found some images of stained model Victory ships on the internet and they  were done like this and I  thought they looked good.  So...... I  will lay this out and post a photo of the layout shortly, and make a decision on proceeding.

 

 

Mark

 

 

 

[clearway]

check out the build log for "shihawk" billings victory- he finished his in varnished wood and had the same conundrum.

 

Keith

[mfrazier]

17 minutes ago, clearway said:

check out the build log for "shihawk" billings victory- he finished his in varnished wood and had the same conundrum.

 

Keith

Thanks, his was one of the ones I  downloaded for reference.  I will check it again.

 

Mark

[mfrazier]

Since I  screwed up the first planking, I  thought I would lay out the second planking to see how things should look. I used some string and tape ( with everything closed, you gotta use what you can find) to lay out the planking bands. I divided the hull into four bands,  each will have seven, 6 mm planks. I think I  can work with the stern, but the bow .... that's a problem. I let the string kind of follow a natural path. 

The last photo is the bow and 7 planks are NOT going to work well. Any suggestions to how to do the bow would be appreciated.

Edited May 10, 2020 by mfrazier
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[mfrazier]

This is slightly better,  but it will take several drop planks to do it and I  doubt that will look good. 

Mark Frazier 

[Old Collingwood]

Hiya mate,   I have seen builds where  folks halve the width of the planks  from the bow  back as far as one whole plank length (but only on the top of each plank  not underneath)   this way  it helps to set them  correctly around the bow,   even in  museum builds  they used narrower  tapering planks at the bow  and to an extent  around the stern  where they taper towards the rudder.

 

OC.

[mfrazier]

I may be able to squeeze them in at half the plank width if I  use one drop plank in each band, but I  think that is too many drop planks. Would it look bad?

 

Mark Frazier 

[clearway]

also creepers and stealers can be used- they taper the planks on real ships too- there is  a good method in harold underhill's  plank on frame models volume 1

[mfrazier]

I have laid out every plank as close as I could. The planks are supposed to be 6 mm wide ... BUT ..... I measured them and they are just slightly wider .... like 6.05 to 6.1 mm. So when I laid out for 28 6 mm planks on each side, they wouldn't come out right. I could only get 27 planks on, so I  had to lay them all out again.(more poor quality). I will make any adjustments on the garboard plank.

The walnut strip that is glued on each side is the top of the lower wale. No the wale line will not be correct because I am attempting to make the bands with stained wood instead of painting. I'm going to plank the bottom portion of the hull before I cut the gun ports because I  noticed the line of ports was not all exactly the same height above the lower wale and I  will readjust them before cutting.

 

So.... here I  go..... starting the second planking.  I get really nervous at this point.

 

Mark Frazier 

Edited May 11, 2020 by mfrazier
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[Old Collingwood]

Remember - a pank will only go where it  follows a natural profile,   that is the key    work from the  keal  also work from the wast, but let the planks guide you,   this is what I  discovered.

 

OC.

[clearway]

also on bluff bowed ships you will end up with banana shaped planks at the bow- see chuck's planking guide on modelshipworld, but the run looks o.k. to me

[mfrazier]

I cut the planks into 85 mm lengths as this works out best for the hull length.  I put the first two rows on one side. I am coloring the edges with a pencil to try and simulate caulking.  I don't know how it will work out until I  sand. I will now put two rows on the other side. I try to keep everything identical between sides. This wood is in my opinion,  very poor quality. I thought about replacing it all, but that is not just expensive,  but a waste. I will try to make use of this lumber as best possible.  The edges are very rough on all this lumber. Other lumber I  have ordered is very nicely milled on all sides. Maybe this poor lumber will accentuate the seams more, which may be a good thing if it is not too bad.

 

Mark Frazier 

[clearway]

should sand down and look better- good way about doing scale length planks is it will be easier tapering them to fit the planking lines.

 

Keith

[mfrazier]

I hate this cheap lousy wood for the second planking in this kit. The first planking wood ( lime wood) was much better.  It was very well finished and consistent. The walnut for second planking is all slightly different widths and very rough on the edges. .....With that out of the way ..... I got about half of each side done and it is rough going. I have to constantly try to adjust the width by sanding a little on the edges and try to make the bands finish close to width. I have noticed the thickness is varying slightly on the boards. ( I  regret now not replacing all the wood,  but it is stupid to pay five hundred dollars for a kit and have to replace almost every thing). 

 

I did a preliminary sanding on one side and  rubbed a dampened cloth on it to see how it will finish out before continuing. 

I am not sure there is enough thickness to sand down to where it will need to be to satisfy me. This wood is only 1 mm thick. The curve on the bow is the worst area and the hardest to do. I don't think I  can go back with new wood,  as when I had to replace a couple of boards, I  almost ruined the first layer planks trying to remove a plank. I would never get this stuff off..... so I  shall continue and see what happens. 

 

Mark Frazier 

[Old Collingwood]

I know the wood has let you down my friend  - but you are doing a fine job of getting past  the hurdles, its credit to you  and your abilities  - keep up the great work Mark  you will crack it.

 

OC.

[mfrazier]

15 minutes ago, Old Collingwood said:

I know the wood has let you down my friend  - but you are doing a fine job of getting past  the hurdles, its credit to you  and your abilities  - keep up the great work Mark  you will crack it.

 

OC.

Thanks OC., I  guess this is the same kind of problems you could have scratch building.  There is so much of this kit I  am NOT using, it will be more than half scratch built by the time I  am done. I know I  am going to have a couple "springy" planks as they will be to thin when sanded. I will inject glue into the springy spots with a hypodermic needle to make them solid. I will just do the best I  can with what I  got.

 

Mark Frazier 

[Old Collingwood]

Sounds like a good plan  - getting planks to sit down can be like an uphill battle its as if the little  blitters  have a will of their own, my mistake was being too impatient  not giving the wood glue enough time under pressure to set.

 

OC.

[mfrazier]

7 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

Sounds like a good plan  - getting planks to sit down can be like an uphill battle its as if the little  blitters  have a will of their own, my mistake was being too impatient  not giving the wood glue enough time under pressure to set.

 

OC.

I am using gel CA glue for the second planking. I used wood glue for the first layer and most other things, but I  kind of like the gel CA glue for planking. You just have to be quick because you only have a few seconds to lay it correctly and then it is pretty permanent.  If you try to remove it, many times it will pull part of the base up also. It is a little tricky but works well.

 

Mark Frazier