Cutty Sark by NenadM

[Lou van Wijhe]

Ok, Nenad; no more whining for me.  Now I need to ask you a question, (and Lou).  The bulwarks were made of sheet iron that were riveted together.  Does anyone know the dimensions of the sheets?   Also, any dimensions on the rivets and the spacing between them? None of this is apparent in Campell's plans (my bible).

 

The dimension of the bulwark plates are 10'8" x 40" x 1/2" and they are riveted to the inboard side of the sheer strake. The butts of the plates are internally strapped and the upper edges of the bulwarks are stiffened by a 4" x 4" angle iron, which also support the main rail.

 

The dimensions of and spacing between the rivets can only be estimated from the numerous pictures available.

 

Hope this helps.

Lou

[Sailor1234567890]

Lubbock's book Log of the Cutty Sark has the original build contract included at the back. I know the dimensions of just about every structural part are included in there. Here's a copy online of the contract. I emailed Mr. Sankey before Christmas. He must be very old by now but he responded very quickly to my enquiries.

 

http://web.ncf.ca/bf250/willis.html

 

Hope this helps everyone.

[Bugra]

Very good information indeed, Sailor. Thanks for sharing with us. 

 

Bugra.

[Lou van Wijhe]

Lubbock's book Log of the Cutty Sark has the original build contract included at the back. I know the dimensions of just about every structural part are included in there. Here's a copy online of the contract. I emailed Mr. Sankey before Christmas. He must be very old by now but he responded very quickly to my enquiries.

 

http://web.ncf.ca/bf250/willis.html

 

Hope this helps everyone.

 

Be careful with builder specifications, ships are hardly ever built precisely as designed. The original specs say "Bulwarks. To be of plate iron 5/16" thick to extend 4 ft above stringer plate according to tracing", whereas in real life they are with 1/2" much thicker and extend only 3'4" above the stringer plate. For model building the thickness of the plates is of lesser importance but the height certainly is.

 

All actual dimensions can be found in the document "Construction of the Composite Built Clipper Ship CUTTY SARK" by Captain Simon T. Waite, the ship's former (and honorary) master.

 

Lou

 

P.S.

Rethinking the subject: The original specification doesn't say the bulwark plates are 4 ft high but the bulwarks are "to extend 4 ft above stringer plate" which is something different. The plates are rivited to the inside of the sheer strake and do not rest on the deck stringer plate (look here) so, if they measure 3"4", the total height may indeed be 4 ft. Something learned, again.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Lou van Wijhe

[Sailor1234567890]

I was going to include the caveat that ships are not always built as the specifications call for but simply forgot as I composed the text. Lou is absolutely correct. We are lucky with this ship as we have her with us and can measure her to our heart's content. Thanks for clarifying Lou.

[NenadM]

Thx Lou

 

In meantime, preparing for stanchions, I made some analysis of C-plans

 

So, Bob, you said that C-plans are your Bible.

 

Considering that you resolved this problem earlier, and having not write about, please look attached document and post your remarks.

 

Urge you to pay particular attention to the position marked with 7, it seems that there is no stanchion, because of pilar of skid beam ?

 

stanchions.pdf

 

To add something else: With a lot of patience and time to spend in screening, of Flicker can be find some very clear pictures of details from decks and outside. Some of that picture are not listed in Google pictures. I could not re-post it (copyrights), so, run your PC-s and research, it is usefull

 

Edit

 

Founded picture today. Obviosly left side of Her, with stanchiones 3,4 and 5

 

 

Edited January 29, 2014 by Nenad M

[rfolsom]

Nenad;  I too was concerned about stanchion 7.  However, I was able to find a picture on the internet of the exact area, and found that the stanchion is indeed present.  I'll try to find the picture I referenced and send you a copy of the link.

 

Thank you, Lou and Sailor for the measurement details.

 

~Bob

[NenadM]

Thx, Bob, waiting for picture if you find it

[NenadM]

And here is "lost" stanchion No 7. 

 

Yes, there it is, indeed

 

 

[NenadM]

An aesthetic issue

 

In different times of regular maintenance of CS, main, poop and aft deck change colour, depending of colour of paint is used, so red/brown and gray are bot correct colours for deck and waterway on model

 

On younger images colour is gray, and white bulwarks are not so exposed in contrast ro deck. But, gray colour do not fit quite well to the colour of deck cabins

 

On the other side, it seems to me that, if I I use red/brown colour for deck/waterway, white bulwarks will be much more exposed to eye (and all mistakes), but in that case, colours of deck cabin and deck fit more

 

Also, lower parts of the masts are white, and boats are white too, and if I use gray, it fit well 

 

And, considering in mind that time for making waterway is closer and closer, question arises. Decks can be painted later, but, if I decide for some colour of water way ( it must be done before mounting stanchions, very hard to do it after), this reflects to later colour of deck. So, it is time for decision.

What do you think ?

 

Pure aesthetic ... 

 

 

 

 

 

[mtaylor]

Nenad,

 

I think you're the Captain and you should do what will please you.  Having said that,.. I like the top one as everything contrasts more.

[Lou van Wijhe]

Nenad,

 

The wooden decks themselves were never painted. Only the metal waterways (like other iron parts) were painted with a red/brown oxide paint, which was originally covered with cement (thus grayish coloured). In 1994 the cement was removed from the waterways in order to allow shotblasting of waterways and bulwarks before repairs were carried out. It was then decided to keep the waterways painted, and not to re-cement them. I don't know if they still have this red/brown paint on them but personally I like this colour better than gray.

 

Lou

[NenadM]

Lou,

 

about painting deck

 

I believe that you researched a lot, but it pictures, it looks as them are. It is not, by mine opinion, natural colour of any natural wood. I do not have been personaly to see

 

Thx anyway. My intention obviosly, because lack of technique and experience, is not to make 100% accurate model. Simply, I can not to this. so, question is aesthetic

[Lou van Wijhe]

Nenad,

 

Wooden decks were never painted, it would make them dangerously slippery. The colour aspect changes whether deck planks are dry or wet, going from grayish when dry to dark brown when wet. Of course, you can give the deck any colour you like, it's your ship!

 

Lou

[NenadM]

I made my mind, and decide for red/brown option, or something similar, we ll see when time comes

So, preliminary paint of wateray, and start working on inside bulwarks

 

First

 

application of Archimedes' law of the modeling

 

Each line of the hull flooded where it ought not, displaces an equal or greater amount of lines in places where you do not need them

 

I wrote earlier about chaos I made on bulwarks inside, and now is time to try to mask it with overdetailing

 

Here are pictures of details of working in present stage.

 

First I put 1 x 1 molding for future suport of nail/dead-eye rail in distance of 2mm from panel section. This molding will not be visible ( hiden by rail) but I think it will be important for strong catching of glue. This molding gave me line for slices with rivets

 

All is made of slices of mahogany veneer prepared as for second planking layer of hull, and thined to half or more

 

 

 

When everything is glued, and on position, then thined again

 

Following (tomorrow)

 

Some necessary putty, and sanding 220+280+400

 

And then imitation of rivets

And then painting all white acrylic

 

After that stanchions ( big question still), and pin/dead-eye rails

 

In pictures down, I put some temporary batten to get whole image

 

 

 

Arhimedes lines are realy screaming visible , but I think they will be masked enough to be hard to see them. On deck I will put some "forgoten" bunch of ropes, some leaved bucket, some lost shoes, drunken sailor, dead cat or something... to mask my shame

 

Of course, some water-ports had to be "moved" up to right place at the same distance to deck.

 

When all be white, and surrounded with stuf, I think this will not be so screaming visible, as it is now

Edited February 2, 2014 by Nenad M

[Lou van Wijhe]

application of Archimedes' law of the modeling

 

Each line of the hull flooded where it ought not, displaces an equal or greater amount of lines in places where you do not need them

 

ROFL !

 

Lou

[NenadM]

 

 

I lost some lines, made deep surgery to find them, and found them on places that they have not to be

 

Inside bulwarks have to be almost equal width in whole length above deck. 

 

I have something like this

 

 

I think even I wanted to make this, I could not do this.

 

There is no way to correct now, except to destroy all above waterline. No, thanks. Fortunately, another (left) bulwark is in better condition, so turning model left or right in glass home, will help a little. From the other point, external view of model looks pretty god for me, and that is happiness 

 

The cause of this mess is in some of first steps, when I formed deck with ONE PIECE of veneer 1mm wide, instead to plank with strips 1x3 or 1x5 mm. And I forced (?) that ONE PIECE DECK to fold to try to get latitudinal and longitudinal curvature of deck ?!?!?: And did not check lines of ribs before and after. And remade later fore and aft deck, and that is that now. That was mistake that costs. Never to repeat in next model

 

Whatever, go forward, and enjoy 

Edited February 3, 2014 by Nenad M

[keelhauled]

Nenad,

 

Beautiful work!!! She's coming along well.  It's been too cold in my ship yard to do any real work on mine.  Also been tied up trying to get another job. Interviews - applications, etc.

 

Keep up the wonderful work!!

 

Marc

[popeye the sailor]

plank the deck Nenad.........you'll forget about the little mistakes,  when you see how nice it looks then

[mtaylor]

Nenad,

 

Sand the deck like a madman.  Use a sanding block and once you get it the way you want it, you may have to replank.. or maybe it will be perfect without replanking.   Sanding solves a lot of problems..

[NenadM]

@Marc, wish you luck finding job in this hard times

 

@Popeye, re-planking deck is one of my hopes, and it must be done

 

@Mark, I do not have your will, patience and ... to start again. You have seen in my log that I was persistent like a donkey, sanding and sanding and sanding, and remade aft and fore decks, and a "miracle" comes ... now I have got "proper" spaces on main deck under edges of aft and fore decks to put there some things that have to be there, and they both look to much better. Also sanded, sanded, sanded, and outside look of hull and bulwarks seems to be proper with almost regular hull and outside bulwark lines, so whole thing start a little to look like Cutty Sark. But, on some way I can not explain, main deck is little twisted. 

 

Just to remember, here are some pictures of first versions of fore and aft decks from earlier stage of building with obviously mistakes 

 

 

 

 

Where I was, I can not be un-satisfied now. Of course, learned a lot

 

This remind me to make some edit in one of first logs, to point on error in my decision how to work some steps

 

Of course, joy very much in every hour in workshop

 

Yesterday some little work on "rivets", preparing to paint it white, and reminding lazy Nenad to finally bye new thin paintbrush

 

 

 

[NenadM]

Lazy Nenad finally bought new thin paintbrush ...

[popeye the sailor]

the older pictures show just how much of a change you have made.........you've made some great progress.   the rivets are a nice touch and paint will bring them out nicely.  looking down the length of the deck......I don't see too much warpage.  before you go any further,  get the deck as flat as you can.........the sanding may knock off some of the rivet work your doing.  then finish the rivet work and paint the bulwarks.   plank the deck......you'll be showing those pearly whites in the biggest smile you'll ever have! 

 

you began this scratch build with a definite direction........as you saw the extra detail you could add in,  you found that it altered the direction of the build.......and there was some consequences.   but through it all,  your build has evolved into a very interesting build,  with detail that I have never seen in any Cutty build.   you shouldn't change your log at all..........it is a testament of the process you took to get where you are now.   scratch building comes with it's problems........it's all in how soon you see the problems......and solve them,  that makes it an enjoyable medium.   your doing a fantastic job!

[rfolsom]

Yes, Nenad; Popeye says it all...

 

Even though my stanchions are in place, I now want to emulate the inner bulwark riveting, as you have...  I'll have to work on this...

 

Excellent progress, my Friend!

 

~Bob

[NenadM]

Wish you luck, Bob. It is pretty complicated now when stanchions are on place.

 

Do not forget slices with rivets that belong to each stanchion ...   

 

On your scale, this will be real accomplishment !!!!

[rfolsom]

Ordered tweezers from Ebay...

[NenadM]

Ordered tweezers from Ebay...

 

And another pair of eyes ...

[keelhauled]

I wonder how many trees we've sanded away!?  It is amazing what corrections sanding will accomplish. 

 

Nenad, I don't see anything noticeable concerning the deck warping.  I wouldn't worry about it.  Once you get the mizzen masts, yards, braces, chicken coops, and the rigging lines all over the place you won't notice any slight warp.  I'd be dazzled by all of the detail that you've put into the bulwarks to notice any issues.

 

Marc

[NenadM]

Boys, thanks for your support.

 

Second day I was not in the shipyard . Yesterday had some office job for homework, today - scheduled lunch nap for half an hour somehow turned into hibernation for almost 4 hours ... Right now I'm awake for about 2 hours, but my head is still left on the couch and refuses to wake up, forcing me to stagger around like a zombie ... Admiral noticed that I am whole day stupid and out of myself ... The culprit is my nephew and his first epic fantasy novel written ... He kept me up to 03 am and I woke up at 06:15 am ...  dragons, magic, knights, intrigue, action .... I just swallowed first 150 pages at once ....So, it seems to be better this evening to surf on net with one eye watching TV, than to expose Her Majesty to some dragon¨s fire or knight¨s sword ...

 

And so, I am in love with epic fantasy ( Tolkien, Martin, Jordan, Zimmer, ....) and interesting night is in front me. And interesting tommorow ( I have court hearing with pleading in the morning ...) Normal people go to bed with husband or wife, unnormal with a book ...

Edited February 6, 2014 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

 

Nenad, I don't see anything noticeable concerning the deck warping. 

 

Marc, I see them, and here they are, zoomed, in their whole brightness ...

 

Aft part of bulwark

 

 

And the fore part of bulwark

 

 

They have to be equial, but .....

 

And here is whole bulwark after painting. With white colour, they are less vissible, so there is hope in later masking I intend to do, and planking and stanchions and ........

 

 

Mark, it was impossible to resolve this with sanding without disrupt established geometry of fore and aft deck. So, let it be, we are going forward

 

BTW

 

Sometimes I wish I have two daughters

 

My son discovered workshop and my tools for his needs

 

result

 

I found tonight that

 

soldering iron IS DEAD

 

digital multimeter IS DEAD

 

who knows what else is dead with concelaed fact of death

 

Boy is very happy he was not in home when I discovered his traces in workshop          

 

And what rest ? Little succesfull playing in trying to soldier something on flame of ciggarete lighter, in my way to stanchions, after reading some instructions for dummies . I can not believe that connections I made are strong !?!?! 

 

 

Cooper wire for telephone line, "soldered" and painted with acrylic white

 

Not bad, there is hope for me to learn soldering

 

And a hope for stanchions with rings and transversal connection to bulwark

Edited February 7, 2014 by Nenad M