Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme

[MESSIS]

Therefor the sources available are Homer’s works, Iliad ana Odyssey, the ancient vases of Homer’s life time, that is the time from the 8^th to the 7^th century bc and lastly the archaeological findings from the ship wrecks. Although is common knowledge that Homer’s epics refer to the Trojan war, that according to Heinrich Schliemann findings are dated in the 13^th to the 12^th century bc., Homer’s  naval references correspond  the naval reality of his life time.

 

 

Out of a study of the above topics, I came to the conclusion (and I am not the first to do so) that Odysseus ship was a πεντηκόντορος, a penteconter. It had, as also her Greek name designates,  50 oars. That is 25 in each side. It also had a single mast with a single square sail. It was a very long boat, hence this type of ship, even the smaller ones with 30 or 20 oars, were described as long vessels (νῆες μακραί, nḗes makraí ).

 

For the reconstruction project, of building Odysseus ship, I got two model ship kits from Dusek, that is the Greek bireme, in order to use/merge their elements  and to by pass  trivial work, which is supplied by the kits.

 

 

Christos

[MESSIS]

As first I had to extend the short keel of the Dusek bireme. The bireme has a length of 395mm, that represents a ship of 28 meters length. Far to short for the long ship of Odysseus which was between 35 and 40 meters. The bireme has two rows of oars, one above the other on each side, with 13 oars each row, where the Penteconter had a single row on each side, but with far more oars, 25 on each side.

[MESSIS]

The lower deck

[Louie da fly]

Nice choice, Christos.

 

I think I'll pull up a chair, if I may.

[MESSIS]

@Louie da fly u r always welcome, as always!

[MESSIS]

Upper deck, or the bridge connecting forecastle and quarterdeck/poop deck, is done. Now is time to begin planking,

 

That said, appears to me that I have to explain that this is not the way a penteconter was build. On  the contrary, at those ages, it was the other way around, It was build with the shell-first construction method. That is the planking was made prior to the framing of the ship. The frames were coming after planking. Of course here I could not follow this method so I proceed as the usual method frame first and then planking, that is the method that came later, after the 7^th century bc.

 

For the planking there is discussion. Were the ships planks  those days  joined together with mortise and tenons or if they were laced on each other. Although Homer describes Odysseus building a ship or some kind of a vessel, in order to leave Calypsos island, but although he explains clearly how Odysseus joins the planking, ‘’ he bored them all and fit them together and then with pegs and fasteners he hammer it together…” the various translations have produced a disagreement. In any case the laced method is the older method, that means that in Homers time most probably the new method -mortise-tenons- was used,

Lionel Casson and many other scholars believe that probably penteconter were build with the modern method of mortise and tenons. Also at the substantial period the laced method was mostly found in wrecks around Egypt.

[Cathead]

Cool project, seems like a great chance to follow along and learn some more history.

[Edwardkenway]

4 hours ago, Cathead said:

Cool project, seems like a great chance to follow along and learn some more history.

Yes, I love the stories of the Trojan war and subsequent tales of Odysseus trials and tribulations trying to get back to Ithaka and Penelope. I will  enjoy watching his ship being built. 

[MESSIS]

A sketch showing the frame and its upper and lower ζυγά, the seats σέλμα, and lastly the planking, the wale and the decks.

[Louie da fly]

I love the research you're putting ginto this, Christos.

 

I take it you've seen the footage on Youtube of the Argo reconstruction? 

 

and 

 

It's hard to count the oars, but I think she's a pentekonter.

[MESSIS]

@Louie da fly thank you very much Steven.No I was aware of the reconstruction of Argo, but I wasnt aware of the youtube video. I just saw it.. .  thank you.

 

What I have just seen, seems to be very near to what I had in mind out of my study. Though Argo is far shorter than I think a penteconter could have been  .... I believe am more on the right side.

 

Argo (replica), is said to be 28 meters, but if you allow a meter plus (according to the trireme Olympias expirement) for each oar's man, then you got more than  the 28 meters without the ικρία, thats the forecastle and quarter deck. Lionel Casson's calculations are favourable to my view  that a penteconter reached 40 m. That as a maximum, because above that, other issues appear (frame dynamic behaviour problems), making (for example) the existence of an exiconter εξηκόντορος (60 oars) impossible. Ofcourse there are scholars who believe that there were smaller penteconters even 28 to 30 meters. (S.Mark - Homeric Seafahring)

 

I also have some minor objections concerning the beaklike bow, the colours  the ornamentation etc

 

Thank you Steven for adding usefull information to my work.

 

Christos 

 

 

 

[Louie da fly]

Happy to be of help, Christos. 

 

The Byzantine galea YK4 found at Yenikapi (the old harbour of Theodosius) had the rowing benches anywhere between 0.874 and 1.048 metres apart - with an average spacing of 0.96 metres. I found in my own dromon (also with 25 rowing positions, though on two levels rather than one) that allowing for about a meter between benches the bow and stern both needed to be longer than originally estimated. If I were to build it again I would make it 4 metres longer.

 

I think your judgment regarding the bow shape, colours, ornamentation etc could well be better than that of the people who built the Argo reconstruction.  

[MESSIS]

The ancient port of Amathus.... in Cyprus

 

 

[MESSIS]

Planking slow but it proceeds. The planks are very thin and break easily. Another thing is that due to the length I need more than one plank for each row.

[bolin]

Very interesting project. I’m just finishing reading the Iliad and is seriously tempted in building a penteconter. I will follow along and enjoy and learn from your endeavors.

[Louie da fly]

On 7/22/2020 at 8:38 PM, MESSIS said:

Another thing is that due to the length I need more than one plank for each row.

Not to worry, Christos. I'm sure that was the way they did it back in the day!

 

Looking very good.

[MESSIS]

Steven, I dont think so.As you are aware of, they were building their ships with the shell first method. Meaning there were no frames to connect on the next plank. Ofcourse you will ask now, how were they finding 40 meter long planks for the penteconters.... And I will answer that  I dont know 🤯

 

 

[Louie da fly]

Hmm, very interesting. Neither do I. I wonder what the builders of the Argo reconstruction did?

[MESSIS]

This is how the plank extension was made by the Kyrenia ship (found by its wreckage). But that is 4th century bc.Pentconter is 12th to 11th cent.bc

[Louie da fly]

So, a scarph joint reinforced with tenons. Makes sense.

[MESSIS]

Yes, it makes sense. Still there is mo evedence if that was the case for the penterconter. On the other hand I dont believe that a 40 meter lenght ship was made by a single plank.in each strake. I dont think they could do that and find and cut trees of that length.

[MESSIS]

Planking slow but steady...

[Louie da fly]

Looking very good, Christos  

[MESSIS]

Planoing the shell with oak 

[Louie da fly]

Nice to see the hull planked, Christos. That's a very nice shape.

[MESSIS]

@Louie da fly  thx, it seems am over the crical point of not completing the model. After the framing and planking now its easy to proceed with what it remains in order to rebuilt Homer's ship. I believe the result will be historicaly representable or at least within the frame of Homer's imagination.

[MESSIS]

And here you can see akrostolion (stem decoration) and aflaston (stern decoration), both had a religious symbolism. And the 3rd picture shows epigenides and zyga, which ofcourse were futtocks (epigenides) and zyga the crossbeams which I dont know how is called in english. And lastly the beakhead, which is not a ram (no rams at that point in naval history)but just a beakhead helping the ship's/keel's stability.

[Louie da fly]

17 minutes ago, MESSIS said:

the crossbeams which I dont know how is called in english

If they supported a full deck they'd be called deck beams. The most accurate term might still be "upper deck beam"- but as the upper deck is really what we would call a catwalk, perhaps "catwalk beams"?

[MESSIS]

thanks Steven. Very nice of you to explain to me. Actualy they operated as holders of the futtocks in the radia direction, helping I guess against shell compression or tenstion tension. I also believe that each frame hat two of those, one lowere and one up.

[Louie da fly]

Yes, the deck beams had two functions - to support the deck, but just as importantly, to hold the frames apart so they kept their shape. And there'd need to be two sets of beams to hold the two decks, but two would also maintain the hull shape even better.