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Posted

Bruma, your model is a delight and an education in so many ways.

Kirill's recent comments have prompted a question lurking in the back of my mind.....

No ship under sail would be seen without someone at the helm and someone else on watch....

and out of the water, stuck on a couple of pedestals?

Posted

Thank you all for the likes and for taking some time to write comments, they are all really appreciated! 

I’ll try to answer to every questions: 

 

On 4/22/2021 at 8:23 AM, kirill4 said:

Lower sails ,looks a little bit small in heihgt,is it correct size?

 

I have taken all the sizes of the sail from the scaled Campbell’s plans. I have a master copy made of paper and then copied the shape on the silk span. 

All the sails are double checked so I suppose and hope that the size of the lower topsail is correct. Another cross check is the distance between the two yards: their positions are fixed and they fit with the plans. 

I have also checked the length of the yards: longer yards may change the aspect ratio of the sail. But again they are in accordance with Campbell's plans. 

So, long story short, I think I’m right :)

 

On 4/22/2021 at 8:23 AM, kirill4 said:

as seems to me You give sails too much belly...they became looks like on galleon :)))

 

I see your point and I can agree somehow. Thank you for pointing it out, it is a great argument of conversation and one of most interesting to me!  

Let me explain my point:

#1 If possible, I don’t want to use painting or other models as reference. The model you posted is wonderful, far better than mine, and the modeller who created it is surely a talented one, but still the model is his own interpretation of the real ship. 

When I started to think about my sails I collected some pictures of real ships under moderate wind and I tried to replicate the effect. 

Here you have two exples on the James Craig:

 

6a.jpg.03525e194dd1a78ea0b4fbb7515f066a.jpg

 

ea8e87216414ae88902b67b4dea7ecea.jpg.cd38f1173f849d59853ea28c5b652c77.jpg

 

And one of the stad amsterdam:

 

B_a-scuola-di-mare-e-non-solo-a-bordo-del-clipper-stad-amsterdam_1.thumb.jpg.c006014feecfc92eb45434216931ec27.jpg

 

When I saw them I realized that this was the look I wanted to achieve. 

 

Surely there are also other examples that show flatter sails, such as this one:

 

b7288d4e490c22c0b2145aef748d4b7b.jpg.904f56889847bf4d72a497ae26103ee0.jpg

 

But I prefer the first one and that’s what I have tried to replicate. 

So, point #2

I think that sail shape can greatly depend on the skipper and the sea conditions, but both the shapes can be accurate. 

That being sail, I’m not completely satisfied with my result, there is surely a margin of improvement


 

On 4/22/2021 at 10:40 AM, kirill4 said:

Did You consider to turn all yard more sharp to the wind?

 

Yes, but I think I’ll stick with this angle.

A close hauled configuration might result with a heavier look of the ship (in my opinion) and it will occlude more the deck. With this angle and the corkscrew arrangement of the sails, if you look at the ship from starboard she is still light and elegant. But it is absolutely a subjective point. 

 

22 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

I see you fashioned the truss for the lower topsail instead of using the Revell solution.  Wonderful attention to detail.

 

 

Yes, and I’m glad you noticed. I didn’t mention it being afraid to bother too much, but there are many small details such as this one all over the place. They took a good deal of time and effort and they may get lost in the intricacy of the rigging, but I know they are there and now, thanks to you, I know that they can catch the attention of someone else. 

 

22 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Will you be belaying all the sheets and bunt lines to their pins?

 

Yes they are all ready and easily detectable from their respective fairleads, but i’ll belay them only at the end. Once I wil brace all the yard properly I’ll be able to tighten them.

 

22 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

I am interested in your assembly approach....I constructed my Great Republic mast and yards off model for ease...did you do something similar?

 

Yes, all the sails are secured to the yards, with lines and blocks. Then I put the yarda on the mast completing the rigging on the mast itself and I move on the upper sail. 

 

21 hours ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

The Revell kits included some scale figures of crewmen.  Ever consider placing a few on the model to give the viewer an idea of her large size?  Most models of sailing ships under sail are devoid of crew - almost like 'flying dutchmen' ...

 

Maybe, but there is still a lot of work to be done. I can think about that later on. 

Surely I will put them only if I will be able to paint them properly. The toy effect is always there and I want to avoid it. 


 

19 hours ago, shipman said:

Bruma, your model is a delight and an education in so many ways.

 

 

Thank you Shipman, I’m really happy. Surely I’m not alone: without the support of the entire community I would not have been able to achieve this result and you are one of the most important members of the support team! :)

 

 

19 hours ago, shipman said:

and out of the water, stuck on a couple of pedestals?

 

This is another thing I'm considering. Surely I will not use resin. It is too expensive and dangerous for the model. We will see… 

 

 

Again, thank you all! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Current build: Cutty Sark - Revell - 1:96:   https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25323-cutty-sark-by-bruma-revell-196/

 

Posted

You are doing a wonderful job for sure.  The top three images you chose to model....and I can see why..the sails are fuller and appear more active in the animation of their design....where as you suggested the last image the sails are trim and taught.  This is easily seen by the fact the top 3 images the sheets are relaxed...allowing the sails to billow...where as the last image the sheets are drawn in tight and the sail is fully bent.

 

In your example your sails are fully bent and you still achieved the fullness of the first 3 images.   Sail(I know) can be arguably subjective.  The point that you added them...and with functional accuracy demonstrates a knowledge of their function and control.  And a sailing ship without her sails is either in port(where they would be stowed) or the modeler left them off to allow better viewing of their rigging details.

 

Like yourself....I preferred to present my model(Great Republic and Glory of the Seas) as they would appear at sea...where she would have been most at home.

The discriminating eye can find the finer details if they are modeled.....and sails and their rigging, make up part of the finer details.

 

One last question:  Did you add the jackstays to the yards then lash the sails to them....in your search for the *Finer* details?  (And what about those gin blocks?)

 

Rob

Current build:

Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196

 

 

Finished build:

Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/#

 

Current build(On hold):

Build log: 1/96  Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/

 

Completed build:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/

The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts."

Posted

Bruma,

 

Your build log is a joy to follow and the fact that you take the time to answer everyone's question with thought and respect is commendable.  I truly appreciate the amount of detail that you have put into this ship and it is a great example of how a plastic model can be turned into a true museum piece.  I will be referring to this log quite often when I have a chance to get back to the work bench.

 

Best Regards,

Wayne

Current Projects:

Kate Cory - Model Shipways - 1:64

Posted (edited)

Good day Bruma! :)

Thank You very much for detailed unswer and specialy for the posted pictures which shown two different vews of the sails with wind,

Your explanations and Rob comments gave me the light in this respect,now I more understand  how the sails maight looks like depend on trimming them by crew( sheets adjustments) and weather condition...and your reasons why You did your sails looks like that ! 

Before,thinking of the clipper sails( I often thinking about building my own clipper model from the same kit somewhere in the future,

and use your building reports as food for my thoughts :)))) ,

I looked mostly in one direction only, and due to my galleon model building experience I used to relay mostly on pictures and model :))) ,

but clippers are not galleons and there are lot of fotos of real ships exsist!!!:)))

Thanks again !

When I questioning about sails appearance, I think I kept in mind this famous CS foto,where they are looks much flat...and when I saw sails on your model question automaticaly arised ... :)

but as Rob explained, there are sheets adjusted tight which gave different visual effect...

and as You said, wheather condition / wind force and direction condition are also different

thanks for Jaims Craig fotos!

I didn't know about this ship...I knew about Stad Amsterdam existing only ....

*I understood regarding sails sizes - they are 100% from Campbell plans , ok...

but he shown them of couse without wind on the plans, and while complitely flat, no belly,  they looks bigger in appearance..

I did'nt consider this moment when asking !!!

these Campbell drawings my favorite ones and I planned to use them and your and Rob building reports as well in the future as the basic sources of information!

  *One more aspect, is it possible ,that on modern clipper replicas they used redused sails sizes ( as on some "galleons replicas" )?

Or they they are riffed?

   But ...I think - no... than it will contradict with the fact ,that on your model all sails sizes taken from Campbell plans, and with the wind,on the model, they became looks same as on real ships where  sheets have some slack...!

  This is not matter of reducing sails size...

*Your choice of  yards trimming - all clear,thanks!

*I fully agree with Rob, there are a lot of specific details in clipper rigging, and it will be very interesting if You made accent on them in your written reports and in foto reports(macro for better details vewing )- such as jackstays on the yards and lashing the sails to them, gin blocks , truss for the lower topsails, etc.

Wish You all the best! And good CS modelling !:)))

 

 

FL15829886.jpg

Edited by kirill4
Posted

Absolutely amazing job! Calling it the 'Revell Cutty Sark' seems to be a misnomer at this point. As much scratch building as you've done, I'd put it in the scratch section.

 

I can understand why you wouldn't necessarily want to put the figures in place, 1:96 is a kind of awkward scale for them. At 1:350, no one expects figures to be detailed, they kind of add some surface interest, and I've seen ships (particularly aircraft carriers) where they gave a proper sense of the bustle. That said, I included some of the 1:96 figures on my (out of the box) Revell Constitution. But, they were figures painted by my then 7 and 9 year old daughters and the model was a present for their grandparents. The 'toy look' wasn't as much of an issue.

Current Builds: Bluejacket USS KearsargeRRS Discovery 1:72 scratch

Completed Builds: Model Shipways 1:96 Flying Fish | Model Shipways 1:64 US Brig Niagara | Model Shipways 1:64 Pride of Baltimore II (modified) | Midwest Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack | Heller 1:150 Passat | Revell 1:96 USS Constitution

  • 2 months later...
Posted
On 2/2/2021 at 5:36 PM, shipman said:

As promised.......

 

1:96 single and 2 ball stanchions + railing wire + the 42 links per inch chain.

 

DSCF1354.thumb.JPG.6006601af094aa4c9e13d0c676736bfc.JPG

Hi shipman,

 

I have a question: which brand are these one and two ball stanchions and where can they be obtained?

I have a Revell first edition of Nannie Dee's Cutty Sark lying around as well for building sometime in the future and following with great interest.
Compliments to Bruma for this lovely build!

 

Thanks,

Frank.

Current builds on MSW:

HMS Winchelsea 1:48

Prior builds on MSW:

None

Posted
2 hours ago, FrankWouts said:

I have a question: which brand are these one and two ball stanchions and where can they be obtained?

 Frank, these can be bought from Cornwall Model Boats, you'll need to figure out what size you need. 

 

https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?page=search&SS=stanchions&PR=-1&TB=O&ACTION=Go!

Current Builds:  1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                             Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                             Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

Posted
5 hours ago, FrankWouts said:

 

 

I have a question: which brand are these one and two ball stanchions and where can they be obtained?

 

Frank, I sourced the above items from a very helpful chap on the Isle of Man several years ago.

Unfortunately he has since died. Where he got them from, I have no idea, but they were substantially less expensive than elsewhere and in any quantity. His passing was a sad loss.

 

https://www.hismodel.com/cutty-sark-revell-1-98  also provide these and many more items specifically for the Revell kit.

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted
On 2/13/2021 at 7:16 PM, shipman said:

Anyone got suggestions as to the function of the long brown 'pole' just under CUTTY SARK name plate at the bow?

image.thumb.jpeg.d320a9084e2fdfafb66cbeb52c4f1dd3.jpeg

 

 

Sorry to respond so late to your post (#161) but I was just browsing and saw your question about the rails on the bow of Cutty Sark.

 

 

 

These rails were removed from Cutty Sark when her new figurehead was fitted recently giving an opportunity to photograph them.

The rails are variously known as Middle Rail or Third Rail.  They are made of teak and elliptical in cross-section, measuring 2½ inches top to bottom, 2 inches thick and 20 feet long.  They are slightly convex to fit the shape of the bow.

 

 

The leading end is tapered and the after end is rounded.

 

 

 

Although they are undoubtedly decorative, they would certainly have had a practical function and here opinions differ.  My best guess is that this rail was there to protect the guilded scrollwork and name on the trailboards from being ‘snagged’ and damaged by lines leading over the bow. 

These could include headline mooring ropes, anchor cables (particularly when the anchor was ‘catted’ with the cable still attached), the fore tack and the sheet from a Jamie Green sail, carried under the bowsprit. 

 

I would welcome any more knowledgeable explanation of their purpose.

 

Best wishes for your project.

Posted

TIPP, thank you for the excellent photo and your more than plausible explanation.

It strikes me that these rails have no resemblance to the surrounding structure and have an extemporised look to them.

The bow area is such a vulnerable part of the ship and as we know, the ship had many adventures, so it's likely some of the structure may have been damaged on more than one occasion.

Looking at pictures of 'Ferreira' in dry dock, this area certainly has a different appearance (to my bleary eye).

 

In his book, John Richardson mentions the 'half deck' was an additional feature to accommodate apprentice boys. Is this the midship deck house which I know wasn't part of the first build of the ship?

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

Hi Shipman

 

When launched, Cutty Sark had only one deckhouse. 

 

John Willis' original specification for the construction includes:

 

1.Deck House. To be iron framed and plated with Teak and panelled. Galley to be fitted at after end and to be properly lined in wake of cooking range with sheet iron. Floor to be neatly tiled with coloured tiles. Funnel to be of galvanised iron. Fore end of house to be fitted for Carpenter, Sailmaker, Boatswain, Apprentice, etc. and of a size as may be required.

 

When used as accommodation for up to 8 apprentices, this deckhouse was known as the HALFDECK.

 

For the maiden voyage of 1870 all the ABs  were housed in the fo'c'sl head, on the level of the 'tween deck, accessed only by a single companionway leading down from the weather deck immediately abaft the anchor windlass.    This arrangement was soon deemed impractical because it took the men too long to get up on deck when needed in a hurry. 

 

The result was the addition of a second deckhouse for the crew and their former space was given over to storage space.

 

Their 'luxurious' new deckhouse continued to be referred to as 'the fo'c'sl'  and the watch off duty were always 'the watch below'.

 

 

 

  • 3 months later...
Posted

Hello everyone! 

It’s been a long time since my last update.

After completing the fore mast, I have experienced a lack of motivation and the will to move on something else.

Meanwhile, I have received from my wife a resin 3d printer, and so I started a side project: a small Italian steam locomotive, the Gr 835, in 1 to 87 scale

 

Here it is:

 

1507302086_fsgr8353dprintedIMG01.thumb.jpg.6c189fb730b5a2413ed9f8c9de4e2556.jpg

 

It is designed in Blender and printed on an elegoo mars 2 mono, more than 90 individual parts. 

But with the locomotive completed, I started to look again at the lonely Cutty Sark and the spark ignited again! 

 

 

So…. Update time! 

 

Spencer gaff and furled sail

 

This sail is one of the less documented and a bit of guessing is needed. 

The gaff provided by revell is not good enough, so I opted for building a new one. 

Since I was making the Spencer gaff, I decided to create the spanker boom and gaff as well. I will talk about them later on in the build.

Here you can see, from top to bottom, the spencer gaff, the spanker boom and gaff

 

 

352987081_CuttysarkrevellIMG46.thumb.jpg.6a37e1d244ebf7bdad6062adb040e876.jpg

 

 

All of them were airbrushed and weathered as usual. 

As far as I can tell, the spencer sail was rarely used, so I opted for a furled sail. 

As for all the other sails, the material is painted modelspan reinforced with metal wire. 

The flat sail has been wetted and then sculpted to mimic the furled shape. 

Here you can see some images of the process:

 

968933807_CuttysarkrevellIMG47.thumb.jpg.0338499aa09ce92ced900f57ef0184b5.jpg

1272090381_CuttysarkrevellIMG48.thumb.jpg.7b47f99321f4e3f701f43e5656191e56.jpg

 

 

The brails are used to shape the sail and make it fast to the mast.

The pole visible in the previous images is just a placeholder used while shaping the sail. 

In the final arrangement, the sail is provided with hanks and fixed to the relative jackstay behind the main mast. 

With the sail still detached I added all the needed lines: two sheets with relative blocks, four brails (two for each side),  outhaul and inhaul beneath the gaff.

Alongside with the work on the sail, I added all the blocks on the main mast needed to rig the sail (four blocks for the brails on the jackstay and block below the main platform for the inhaul) and the eyebolt for the standing rigging of the gaff.

Once all the preparation work has been done, it’s time to attach the sail! 

I started with reeving each hank to the jackstay and the passing all the lines to the relative blocks, and this is the result:

 

1963718048_CuttysarkrevellIMG49.thumb.jpg.0aa44e20a8cd1dd45ff370a4da5684de.jpg

475548348_CuttysarkrevellIMG50.thumb.jpg.9cf387660785c92af693c6ad886932cd.jpg

1992716003_CuttysarkrevellIMG51.thumb.jpg.e7a20c0507d43a6f2e40667883b2d199.jpg

 

 

The main mast is still not glued.

Finally, just to remember the long-term goal, two pictures of the ship as it is now:

 

411335367_CuttysarkrevellIMG52.thumb.jpg.b3277e1090275ba61d5fac1bcaed691c.jpg

 

818052511_CuttysarkrevellIMG53.thumb.jpg.ae61249a5d0c1b04753fa6539532d838.jpg

 

Thank you all! 

Current build: Cutty Sark - Revell - 1:96:   https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25323-cutty-sark-by-bruma-revell-196/

 

Posted

 Hello!

Glad to see You continue rigging!

Sails looks very natural!

Wish You all the best!

Kirill

Posted

I fully welcome your return and am anxious to see you continue.....:dancetl6:

 

Rob

Current build:

Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196

 

 

Finished build:

Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/#

 

Current build(On hold):

Build log: 1/96  Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/

 

Completed build:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/

The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts."

Posted

Glad to see you back!

 

Quick question about the gaffs. How did you make the hinge? Is it articulated or rigid.

 

Everything looks fantastic!

 

George K

Current Builds: Bluejacket USS KearsargeRRS Discovery 1:72 scratch

Completed Builds: Model Shipways 1:96 Flying Fish | Model Shipways 1:64 US Brig Niagara | Model Shipways 1:64 Pride of Baltimore II (modified) | Midwest Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack | Heller 1:150 Passat | Revell 1:96 USS Constitution

Posted

Thank you all, I’m really happy to see you are still with me! 

 

 

On 11/25/2021 at 3:33 PM, gak1965 said:

Quick question about the gaffs. How did you make the hinge? Is it articulated or rigid.

 

The hinges are all rigid. They are a simple piece of brass wire inserted in the boom and then bent. To mimic the real hinges, I just applied two small disks on both sides of the wire, pretending to simulate a cylindrical hinge.

I hope it’s clear enough, if not please write me, and I’ll try to take some more close-up pictures!

Current build: Cutty Sark - Revell - 1:96:   https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25323-cutty-sark-by-bruma-revell-196/

 

  • 4 weeks later...
Posted

Hi Bruma,

 

You said this is your FIRST sailing ship?!  With rigging and sails like that?  It is REALLY a spectacular build!  I just acquired an older Revell Thermopylae and I can only hope mine will turn out this good for being my first sailing ship! 

 

Please don't leave us hanging!  Looking forward to the completion of this beautiful ship! 

 

Take care,

Jason

Posted
7 minutes ago, EODGoat said:

Hi Bruma,

 

You said this is your FIRST sailing ship?!  With rigging and sails like that?  It is REALLY a spectacular build!  I just acquired an older Revell Thermopylae and I can only hope mine will turn out this good for being my first sailing ship! 

 

Please don't leave us hanging!  Looking forward to the completion of this beautiful ship! 

 

Take care,

Jason

   Ahoy, Jason.  I also have an old Thermopylae kit (late 1950s, so the parts are pretty clean from fairly new molds) in store for building when current projects are done.  Bruma's techniques and 'busts' are great - like reinforcing the bowsprit internally to avoid bending when rigged, and replacing the dolphin striker and the 'whiskers' on the catheads with stiff metal wire (can be found in some hobby stores) - as thin plastic is sooooo prone to accidental breakage.  Since I've never been all that happy with plastic thats been painted wood color, there is a thin laser inscribed wooden deck made for this model (as well as the Cutty Sark) ... I found them on Ebay from an Eastern European source and obtained the one for the Thermie.  Also obtained is a small photo etch sheet having the name to go across the stern (plus a couple other things), as the decal would be sure to 'crumble' if used.  Some claim to have used a decal 'restoring' product - but the technique may be tricky.

 

  Altering the bow curvature to an "Aberdeen" shape won't be hard, but any changes to the angle of the stern involve a lot of complications.  Same goes for altering the quarterdeck further forward to where it was on the original.  As-is, the adaptations of the Cutty kit into one for Thermopylae was a 'reasonable' compromise by Revell - the rear cabin is about right and the deadeyes are mounted on top of the gunwale (as opposed to inside the gunwale on the Cutty) with approximate exterior chainplate.  There is an option for barque rigging as she was for the five years of timber trade in the Northwest ... and I'm considering going that way.  Adding thin layers of white until just a hint of the green shows beneath might simulate the weathered paint job she had before being sold abroad.  Yet she looks best in the green of her prime.

 

  Neither kit has booms for studding sails, but this is not an issue for me since sources indicate the discarding of that tackle once steamers taking the Suez canal meant that maximum speed was not essential for clippers.  Rather, crews could be cut to keep them cost-competitive for bulk cargoes like Australian wool.  I'm not planning on sails either - unless represented as furled using narrow pieces of material to prevent 'bunching'.  There are a lot of possibilities to choose from, mate.

 

   Fair sailing !      Johnny

Completed builds:  Khufu Solar Barge - 1:72 Woody Joe

Current project(s): Gorch Fock restoration 1:100, Billing Wasa (bust) - 1:100 Billings, Great Harry (bust) 1:88 ex. Sergal 1:65

 

 

 

Posted
17 hours ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

   Ahoy, Jason.  I also have an old Thermopylae kit (late 1950s, so the parts are pretty clean from fairly new molds) in store for building when current projects are done.  Bruma's techniques and 'busts' are great - like reinforcing the bowsprit internally to avoid bending when rigged, and replacing the dolphin striker and the 'whiskers' on the catheads with stiff metal wire (can be found in some hobby stores) - as thin plastic is sooooo prone to accidental breakage.  Since I've never been all that happy with plastic thats been painted wood color, there is a thin laser inscribed wooden deck made for this model (as well as the Cutty Sark) ... I found them on Ebay from an Eastern European source and obtained the one for the Thermie.  Also obtained is a small photo etch sheet having the name to go across the stern (plus a couple other things), as the decal would be sure to 'crumble' if used.  Some claim to have used a decal 'restoring' product - but the technique may be tricky.

 

  Altering the bow curvature to an "Aberdeen" shape won't be hard, but any changes to the angle of the stern involve a lot of complications.  Same goes for altering the quarterdeck further forward to where it was on the original.  As-is, the adaptations of the Cutty kit into one for Thermopylae was a 'reasonable' compromise by Revell - the rear cabin is about right and the deadeyes are mounted on top of the gunwale (as opposed to inside the gunwale on the Cutty) with approximate exterior chainplate.  There is an option for barque rigging as she was for the five years of timber trade in the Northwest ... and I'm considering going that way.  Adding thin layers of white until just a hint of the green shows beneath might simulate the weathered paint job she had before being sold abroad.  Yet she looks best in the green of her prime.

 

  Neither kit has booms for studding sails, but this is not an issue for me since sources indicate the discarding of that tackle once steamers taking the Suez canal meant that maximum speed was not essential for clippers.  Rather, crews could be cut to keep them cost-competitive for bulk cargoes like Australian wool.  I'm not planning on sails either - unless represented as furled using narrow pieces of material to prevent 'bunching'.  There are a lot of possibilities to choose from, mate.

 

   Fair sailing !      Johnny

Johnny,

 

Thanks much for the info!  That's alot to consider while researching this build!  I did see the deck and the photo etch so I'll be sure to get those.  Looking forward to seeing your Thermopylae!  Make sure you post lots of pictures on here!

 

Take care,

Jason

Posted
1 hour ago, EODGoat said:

Johnny,

 

Thanks much for the info!  That's alot to consider while researching this build!  I did see the deck and the photo etch so I'll be sure to get those.  Looking forward to seeing your Thermopylae!  Make sure you post lots of pictures on here!

 

Take care,

Jason

  Jason,  Hull considerations aside, the care in rigging is what can show a model to its best - so the books on rigging suggested elsewhere in the forum will take precedence over the simplified version found in the kit's instructions.  Once again, Bruma shows so many details in this area - and using real deadeyes, rope shrouds and ratlines are a standout.  I've pondered how to do this on the gunwales molded on the bulwarks ... possibly drilling small holes for the wire wrapped around the lower deadeye to pass through and continue downward as the chainplate.  Small notches would be made in the largest rub strake (could be filled afterwards) with an eye formed at the end of the wire to fasten through the hull with a tiny brass pin (predrilled hole).  Of course, there may be a way to use the kit deadeyes but add rope shrouds instead of the provided plastic ones.

 

  The Cutty Sark has metal plating as the upper part of the bulwark, versus the wood of Thermopylae.  Cuttl Sark also has a second proud strake below the gunwale (painted white) that is not present on Thermopylae.  I'm considering dremeling off that bit and abrading the rivets (but keeping the port indications as-is), then using an engraver (or fine awl) to make plank lines and perhaps an indication of wood grain.  Since the hull is painted it should look OK and be closer to the original.  On the inside of the bulwark there are triangular bits down the sides that could be removed.  A wood 'waterway' plank can go at the bottom so it will stand slightly higher than the wood deck to be applied.  CA or epoxy will bond wood to plastic.  Checking out the build of the Glory of the Seas talks about waterways (and a lot of other things as well).

 

  So here's my 'rabbit hole' - The molded gunwale is a tad narrow for the above mentioned hole-drilling, so it could be abraded off, the inside of the bulwark planked with thin strips (CA or epoxy).  Vertical wood ribs would go next (wood glue for wood-to-wood), only part way up where any pin rail will go.   I'd fashion wood pin rails (pre-drilling for whatever brass (possibly wood) belaying pins acquired and gluing to the bulwark, then add whatever ribbing to go up to where a new wider wood gunwale will mount.  The area at the bow and stern where the railings go do not have gunwale on the hull, because the provided gunwale sections in those areas have stanchions for rope or wire railings.  These could be used as-is.  I suppose wood gunwales could be put there and 3-D brass stanchion used (Cornwall Boats is one source) ... All this would be quite a modification for a first ship, and using the provided pin rails and railings is certainly a less daunting way to go - also much less time consuming.  You'll be spending time doing rigging to whatever level of detail you care to get into.

 

  I'm involved in a lot of things in what is turning out to be a 'working retirement' ... too many hours at the hospital as a Pharmacy Technician, teaching one night course and also a teachers aide at another night course, home improvements/maintenance, doing most of the shopping/cooking/cleaning to help the Admiral - who makes goods to sell on ETSY with me as shipper and bookkeeper, and managing some rescue parrots.  Somehow there may be a little time here and there for model ship work - my build of an old Billings Wasa has been suspended for a while, but I now know where I want to go with it (masts only up to where they are at the museum in Stockholm, as if it were under construction).  I also completed a build of the U.S.S. Arizona from a Metal Earth kit (tiny, but with a fair amount of detail).  Both are on the forum.      Johnny

 

 

  

Completed builds:  Khufu Solar Barge - 1:72 Woody Joe

Current project(s): Gorch Fock restoration 1:100, Billing Wasa (bust) - 1:100 Billings, Great Harry (bust) 1:88 ex. Sergal 1:65

 

 

 

Posted

  'Saw an interesting post a while back on folding a strip of thin cloth to represent a furled sail on a clipper ship yard - to reduce the bulk that results from trying to fold-up a full sail, since just about any fabric is way out of scale at 1:96.  'Mouse ear' (or dog ear) pieces were added to attach clew and sheet lines - these are the bottom corners of the sail that hang below the furled sail near the yard ends.

 

   Yet another post had a side-view diagram to show how bunt lines drew the bottom edge up the front of the sail, then crewmen standing on the foot ropes would gather some of the sail and pull it up over the yard (leaning forward to pinch the gather to the yard with the waist), then gather more sail to make pleats on the top of the yard.  There were links to present-day clippers with furled sails appearing rather compact and neat.  A length of line (grommet) is spiraled around the furled sail to keep it in place.  Another source indicated that when sails are set, the grommet line is coiled and hung as convenient on the mast or trestle ... so ships modeled with set sails might include a few coils in those places.  The sheets are hauled and they pull on the 'ears' to make the entire sail flop down and open up (the clew lines having been made loose to allow this).

 

  'Kept thinking on a procedure to furl the sails from the start - and how to replicate it on a model - so I fooled around with paper taped to a brass tube (simulated yard and clipper split topsail) in 'origami fashion'.  I finally got a reasonable facsimile that pleat-folded over the yard and had the actual corners of the sail just hanging down over the yard as I've seen in some pictures.  (I saw another contemporary picture where they were done a little differently.)  Tugging on the ears does indeed make the sail unfold, so I thought there must be a way of reducing the bulk without resorting to adding separate 'ear pieces'.  Cutting out a trapezoid along a fold line seemed to do the trick.  

 

  There are several modeling advantages to having furled sails.  First, the jackstays are covered over - so one does not have to make them at all - which is rather fussy in 1:96 scale.  The blocks for the buntlines are also covered ... so one can even omit the lines as well since the blocks are not seen (and so omitted entirely), and there will not be such a 'jungle' of lines going down to the pin rails.  Ditto for luff lines.  No short reefing ropes are needed since (if they were on the sail) they would be folded up inside the furled sail.  The rope sewn around the edge of the sail will only be seen on the 'ears', so only has to be put on at the corners.  Also, clipper sails are bent to the jackstays (not the yard), and since the jackstay is covered by the furled sail - one need not bend the sail at all to the non-existent jackstay.  One WILL show the clews and sheets, plus lifts and braces - which will provide plenty of lines and blocks to properly mount on the  model.

 

  Now I did take a few photos (one picture is worth a thousand words) to show this 'proof of concept'.   The first one shows the paper sail taped (bent) to the yard (tubing) with blue tape.  The lower corners of the sail are 'curling up' some, as the paper had been furled and unfurled a number of times.  Also, the above mentioned trapezoid of paper that had been cut out to reduce bulk is positioned in its original place ...  When doing the model, I have some VERY fine silk (also fine linen) that will be used for the furled sails.

 

DSC03732.thumb.JPG.af0a47e36e69259b1040a571e851997e.JPG

 

  The next picture shows the trapezoid moved out of place.

DSC03733.thumb.JPG.d881a2a1822b5a37e4161562b927a31f.JPG

 

 The shot below represents the corners of the sail pulled up by the clew lines

 

DSC03734.thumb.JPG.97250141cf1527dfdcb0a9ef7afb4916.JPG

 

  OK, the next pic has the yard flipped over and inverted (as if one was leaning over the yard from above) ...  Remember that originally the entire piece of paper representing the sail was pulled up from the bottom (which the bunt lines would have done), and a couple of gathers were done - folding each one (creasing the paper).  Then the corners were re-positioned outward a bit, which changed the folds on the paper - but did not compromise the 'sail' at all and no cuts were required.  There are a couple of pencil marks where the folds changed, and I have yet to re-fold the final gathers. (Hmmm, photo limit reached, so I'll have to 'submit', then continue.

 

 

Completed builds:  Khufu Solar Barge - 1:72 Woody Joe

Current project(s): Gorch Fock restoration 1:100, Billing Wasa (bust) - 1:100 Billings, Great Harry (bust) 1:88 ex. Sergal 1:65

 

 

 

Posted (edited)

 OK, I'll try to add the next picture.  NOTE:  didn't load again, but it has 5.3 mega byte, and the others are less.  'Took a break to open Photoshop and crop the image to try and reduce the file size.  Let's see ...  YES !  Since I reduced the mb of the image, I didn't get the "upload fail" message I had before.  Some have commented on this forum that they were failing to get pictures uploaded to posts, with a message of a 'server error' (200) ... I think I've found out that there may be a practical size limit to the picture one tries to post.

 

DSC03735.thumb.JPG.0e4acdbb8b67064f73932948f288406a.JPG

 

The picture below has the yard flipped right-side-up again as to viewed from the front - and the gathers were restored on the previous fold lines, and the furled sail is ready to lie on the yard and have the 'ears' descending in front.

 

 

 

DSC03736.thumb.JPG.22a7a098390e81a3c88c2bd367a06101.JPG

 

  The next picture has the grommet lines added.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Snug Harbor Johnny
clarification of lower photo

Completed builds:  Khufu Solar Barge - 1:72 Woody Joe

Current project(s): Gorch Fock restoration 1:100, Billing Wasa (bust) - 1:100 Billings, Great Harry (bust) 1:88 ex. Sergal 1:65

 

 

 

Posted

Grommet lines added.  The view is angled more to the top of the yard.  When viewed straight-on from the front, the blue tape (yard) is seen - but there are no raw edges of sail since it is accordion-folded.DSC03740.thumb.JPG.0bc7c9bef0880b9a5f5a5c593b55e545.JPG

 

  The lines are just some waxed linen awl cord lying around - not rope at all, which I intend to make myself.  As mentioned, this was just an experiment to see how something like this might work - and I think it should with fine cloth, and look presentable on a ship represented as docked.  With un-done grommet, the sheets pull the ears down and the sail unfurls (although the paper retains creases).  Actual sails in real life behave much better.

Completed builds:  Khufu Solar Barge - 1:72 Woody Joe

Current project(s): Gorch Fock restoration 1:100, Billing Wasa (bust) - 1:100 Billings, Great Harry (bust) 1:88 ex. Sergal 1:65

 

 

 

Posted

Like you Bruma, I wanted to hyper detail my Revell Kit.  I used wood deadeyes and detailed her out as much as possible.  I, however had a dioramic point...a true historical incident in CS life.  The replacement of her jury rigged rudder.  She was on the ways for repair, so her sails would have been removed and stowed for the duration of the repair.

 

I appreciate your attention to detail, in making this fine model even that more impressive.

 

Here is a pic of my award winning model. for your edification.

 

Rob

561924_10200330935369154_1218632848_n.jpg

14008_10200330937769214_1300483297_n.jpg

Current build:

Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196

 

 

Finished build:

Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/#

 

Current build(On hold):

Build log: 1/96  Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/

 

Completed build:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/

The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts."

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