The Elusive Hulc by woodrat - FINISHED - 1:32 - plank-on-frame - a speculative reconstruction of a mediaeval merchantman

[Louie da fly]

6 minutes ago, woodrat said:

It would look like a nude banana without them

That conjures up a mental picture that will give me bad dreams for weeks . . .

 

Are you thinking what I'm thinking B One? I think so B Two . . .

[druxey]

To B1 or to B2, that is the question....

[liteflight]

Castles to avoid the “bare” look, and possibly a cherry each end?

Or how about the little trumpeters as shown on one of the seals?

 

The whole shipbuilding world is your lobster, until and unless someone finds a wreck, as-built plans or a time machine.

The thought has just come to me that there is probably more information and representations of the toothed sea-monsters available, than about the hulc!

[woodrat]

"Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?"

"That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat.

I don't much care where--" said Alice.

"Then it doesn't matter which way you go," said the Cat.

 

10 hours ago, liteflight said:

The thought has just come to me that there is probably more information and representations of the toothed sea-monsters available, than about the hulc!

But there ARE toothed sea-monsters. That's why I don't surf.

And there are enough mediaeval illustrations, apart from coins and seals, that show, in some detail, reverse clinker to justify such a representation. I will show the pictures in a later post.

 

These pictures of a patia show reverse clinker being used to produce a large upsweep to the bow. The workmanship is superb. A patia is worth a model in its own right.

Dick

 

 

 

[Louie da fly]

That's really fascinating, Dick. I suppose there's no good reason not to have reverse clinker, unless it caused structural problems somehow. It would be interesting to know what happens at the transition between reverse clinker and the rest.

[BANYAN]

Another very interesting subject you are modelling here Dick.  I have been lurking on this topic so thought I had better join the crowd before the pop-corn runs out ( I would settle for a pack of maltesers though )

 

cheers

 

Pat

[liteflight]

Great pictures of the reverse clinker in action.  I can see now one advantage - it makes the upsweep not only possible but rather more straightforward.  There is a lot of overlap on each strake, and plenty of nailing “meat”

I think it makes for a strong and heavy hull, and would be less flexible than the Nordic tradition.

 

6 hours ago, woodrat said:

Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?"

"That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat.

I don't much care where--" said Alice.

"Then it doesn't matter which way you go," said the Cat.

And correspondingly, under these circumstances you cannot be lost.

But a Catnav would be handy

[woodrat]

I have a couple more drafts. One is long and wide the other is shorter and narrower.

 

 

Cheers

Dick

 

[Louie da fly]

It's always difficult to work out a realistic shape for a ship based almost entirely on contemporary pictures. Did they shorten the thing to fit on the town seals? Almost certainly. But how much? What's a sensible shape for a merchant ship? I know I used to think of carracks as much tubbier than they really were, based mostly on contemporary pictures. It was quite a surprise to find how relatively narrow a "round" ship was. 

[druxey]

How, I wonder, would those contrasting hull shapes do on stability tests?

[liteflight]

My first reaction is that they would be livelier than a flower class corvette.
 The extreme rocker and rounded cross section would, I suspect, allow it to pitch and roll like a good’un.

But reverse clinker would facilitate the banana shape, if I have understood the issues.

I still Look forward to hearing the other advantages 😄

 

 

 

[PhilB]

Surely the "banana shape" is merely an artifact of the artists who often had to fit the ship on a circular medallion. It seems much more likely that these nefs, hulcs or urca were built in similar fashion to longships and knarrs, with a curved bowpost and sternpost that lent itself to stylish renditions of the banana shape by artists.

 

That's my take on it, after having another look at all the art posted on this and nearby threads. I'd go with your "long and wide" version, but perhaps keep the keel more flattish over more of its length before curving up into the bow and sternposts.

 

That's what I did, even if I mistakenly labelled by latest model as a "cog" before being (quite rightly) corrected by the medieval ship scholars here. I'm going with the "nef" label, as an intermediate step between William the Conqueror's ships, as shown on the bayeux tapestry, which look very much like knarrs, and the "white ship" and later similar vessels which keep the curved bow and sternposts, and a side rudder, while adding raised fighting castles.

[woodrat]

Just to show I haven't repented the errors of my ways, here is the "keel plank" being heat bent to shape and stuck to supporting molds .

 

 

 

 

Cheerio

Dick

[liteflight]

The first step in the great journey to realise the hulk

[Louie da fly]

My God! He's actually doing it! All this time I'd thought (hoped) it was all a bad dream . . . 

 

Just joking, Dick. In fact this could be really interesting and instructive.

[iMustBeCrazy]

13 hours ago, woodrat said:

Just to show I haven't repented the errors of my ways

eek!

 

 

[woodrat]

Here is the start of planking.

The garbord strakes

 

and the next two strakes. Note the rabbeted breasthook at stem and stern into which to bolt the strakes. This I think is the "collar" seen on a lot of pictures of hulcs. 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

Dick

[Louie da fly]

4 minutes ago, woodrat said:

Note the rabbeted breasthook at stem and stern into which to bolt the strakes. This I think is the "collar" seen on a lot of pictures of hulcs

 

Most ingenious, Dick. And up to your usual superb standard of workmanship.

[Binho]

Very, very, cool, and such a weird design! Looking forward to seeing how it progresses!

[liteflight]

Fascinating!
 You, Sir are a skilled craftsman with a frumious mind😀

[Tony Hunt]

Such an interesting project.  A real voyage of discovery!  I'm looking forward to see where it ends and what new territory will be discovered. 

[woodrat]

Thanks, Steven, Alberto, andrew and Tony. The Beast is taking shape but I don't know anymore than you what this will be. Since I have applied the bottom strakes, the hull has banana'd a bit and the stress generated has pulled  the keel plank away from the support. This seems to indicate that the hull is finding its own curvature. I rather like the appearance so far and no matter if such a beast was never built in Europe, I'm sure there is an alternate snarky universe in which it was.

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

Dick

[liteflight]

Well built, Sir!

At the moment I am reminded more of a pleated wooden loincloth than a banana, but I keep an open mind😁

15 hours ago, woodrat said:

r and no matter if such a beast was never built in Europe, I'm sure there is an alternate snarky universe in which it was.

Very true, Dick.

hold that thought!

[Louie da fly]

16 hours ago, woodrat said:

I'm sure there is an alternate snarky universe in which it was.

 

But  . . . beware of the day, if your snark be a Boojum! For then - you will softly and suddenly vanish away, and never be met with again . . .

[woodrat]

7 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

beware of the day, if your snark be a Boojum! For then - you will softly and suddenly vanish away, and never be met with again

It is comforting to think that the unfortunate Baker, when he did vanish away, reappeared in the universe where all Boojums have vanished away.😁

Cheers

The Beaver

Edited November 2, 2020 by woodrat

[woodrat]

On 11/2/2020 at 12:24 PM, liteflight said:

 

At the moment I am

reminded more of a pleated wooden loincloth than a banana, but I keep an open mind😁

 

That was a bit below the belt, Andrew!

[woodrat]

I have completed planking up to deck level and taken the hull off its stand. The hull is seen to be quite barge-like which I believe the hulc was , if it existed, and betrays its probable fluvial origin. Obviously there would be a tendency to leeway and lee boards are not fitted. One of the advantages of reverse-clinker, it is said, is the resistance to leeway given by the horizontally directed plank edges . It is also said that the same feature minimises the amount of heeling in a cross sea. Perhaps the sailors can tell me if this is all cods. The hull is very light but quite strong even without rivets, which I will fit soon. Floors and cross members will add tranverse strength and hopefully prevent twisting or hogging.

 

 

rivets,

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

Dick

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Louie da fly]

It's certainly different!

[Schrader]

Really well executed!!!  It is certainly unique 

 

I’ enjoying a lot

[druxey]

Frumiousler and frumiouser!