HMS Fly by Starlight - Amati/Victory Models - 1:64 - first build

[Moonbug]

  Nice work thus far @starlight.   It's always a little bit of interpretation when you see photos rather than in person, but I agree that color looks a bit off. Lots of folks here have come up with some good combinations which all seem to depend on brand. Personally, I leaned toward artist acrylics and a combination using a vermillion red. But I still don't think mine is quite as close as others to standard Royal Navy colors.

[starlight]

Thanks Moonbug,

 

I had really hoped to make it work with a single pigment, but everything I've tried has either been too red or too brown. I know a lot of people recommend the Admiralty line of paints, but I'm not sure if I can get them cheaply. Perhaps I will just bite the bullet and mix some paint.

 

-starlight

[starlight]

Well, I did mix some paint, and I am much more satisfied with the colour now. I gave the inner bulwarks a few coats to see what it looked like (as much as I could without masking the deck).

 

I used about a 4:1 ratio of Artist's Loft Alizarin Crimson Permanent to Liquitex Soft Body Red Oxide. There is a brown shade to it, but it doesn't come across on my monitor. Ultimately the colour is still probably closer to "red" than to "ochre" but I prefer it that way.

 

 

Here's a close-up showing the difference. The old paint is visible on the port stops and near the edge of the deck.

 

 

Since I usually work on this model during the evenings, I never really had a chance to view the paint in bright daylight. A word of caution to other newbie modellers.

 

Now for the monumental task of repainting the port stops (including the outward facing edges...)

 

-starlight

 

[starlight]

The port stops have been repainted and I am comfortable setting aside that part of the build for now.

 

As with most Swan-class kit builders, I was not satisfied with the Amati guns that came in the kit and looked to replace them. I vacillated for many weeks on different options:

• brass guns and wood carriages from Syren
• resin guns from various sources
• printing my own guns and scratch building the carriages

In the end I decided to buy the parts from Syren. As part of my decision-making process, I did print a rough mockup to see how they would look. Below are some images of a kit gun, my prototype, and a Syren gun (from left to right).

 

 

 

 

I will now proceed with assembling the carriages and blackening the guns.

 

-starlight

[starlight]

Just a small update for today. I was not confident in my ability to shape 16 identical quoin handles out of wood, so I once again resorted to 3D printing. The same goes for the cap squares. Given that I am almost certain to lose a few of them, I made spares.

 

Here is the captain admiring the products of a technology from 200 years in the future.

 

 

-starlight

 

 

[allanyed]

I really like that you decided to forego some of the stuff from the kit, especially the cannon and associated parts.   Of the three barrels you show, your 3D printed are the best IMHO.  The kit barrel is really strange looking compared to reality.   The Syren barrel is really quite fine, but with the 3D barrel  I know it is the easiest way to have the cipher on the barrel on the 3D drawing and thus on the 3D printed barrel compared to trying to make and attach one to turned brass barrels.  It is also the least expensive way to have an accurate barrel made.   FYI,  when I had several sizes of barrels 3D printed, the trunnions were part of the printing so they were the exact proper length and no need to make them separately.

 

Have you, (or any member reading this) had Blomefield guns made with a 3D printer in resin?  I just wonder how the breech ring came out in the process.

 

Allan

 

 

[starlight]

@allanyed, thank you for looking in on my build.

 

I definitely agree that 3D printing cannon barrels is the way to go from a cost and simplicity standpoint, and I am glad that so many experienced modelers are embracing the technology. As for myself, having used 3D printing so much for school, I wanted an opportunity to learn some new techniques such as blackening brass. In any event, the Amati kit guns are unacceptable to me and are probably the worst part of the kit I have encountered thus far.

 

23 hours ago, allanyed said:

Have you, (or any member reading this) had Blomefield guns made with a 3D printer in resin?  I just wonder how the breech ring came out in the process.

 

Based on my experience there should not be any problems with the breech ring. This guide for SLA printing recommends a minimum hole diameter of 0.5 mm, but you can probably go smaller for shorter holes. The worst case scenario is that the hole closes off, and you just have to drill it out again. Feel free to PM me if you need help generating an STL file.

 

Cheers,

starlight

[allanyed]

Starlight 

Thank you very much for your response.   Doing 3D to make STL drawings seems very daunting to this old fool, but maybe something to practice while the glue dries.   I agree it is a great alternative choice for a number of things, including barrels, cap squares, hinges and other things.

 

Regarding your comment about the Amati guns, having looked at many of the build logs, the cannon barrels are only the beginning of the parts they try to pass off as accurate and good quality. The truly sad part is that they succeed in convincing so many people to spend their hard earned money for this  stuff when there are two or three  excellent kit designers from which to choose.

 

Please keep in mind I have never had any affiliation with any kit maker, but even these old eyes can see the difference between really good and terrible designs and materials.  

 

Allan

Edited March 29, 2022 by allanyed

[starlight]

I am currently waiting on some parts to arrive so I can continue with the guns. In the meantime, I decided that I would bite the bullet and rework part of the build: adding spirketting and a waterway to the inner bulwarks. I am now in the process of ripping up all my carefully laid margin planks and sanding away the bulwark paint.

 

If I have forgotten anything else in this area I will be very grateful if someone can point it out.

 

-starlight

[QuThinh]

Look forward to see more of your build starlight. 

[starlight]

After some on-and-off work over the past month, I finally finished redoing the inner bulwarks. I found this post very helpful in figuring things out: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25494-edge-of-deck-plank-layout-spirketting-waterway-margin-plank/

 

I ripped up the scarph joints in the waist and sanded away the paint on the lower area of the inner bulwarks. I then added some strips of the kit Tanganyika (0.5 mm thick) to simulate the spirketting. By my calculations, I should still have enough Tanganyika to do the two upper decks. After repainting the bulwarks, I re-made the margin planks such that they are essentially shifted inboard by about 1.5 mm. Technically this is my third time making these scarph joints...

 

 

 

One thing I am not certain about is the height of the spirketting. I know that it should come up to and be flush with the gun/sweep port stops. For me, this meant a fairly straight run of planking. However on other builds I have seen the spirketting laid above this level and then cutouts made to bring it flush at the ports.

 

The other feature I added was a waterway. I made this out of the leftover basswood from the first planking. I first made 1x1 mm strips using the method I outlined in this other post: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/31939-shaping-thin-strip-without-power-tools/

Then, I sanded away half of the strip on the diagonal to obtain a triangular profile. To do this, I opened the jaws of a vise slightly and used it as a crude V-block. I also added some stain to the basswood to try and match it to the Tanganyika, but it still looks too bright.

 

 

 

Now, I can at last return to the guns. I also need to muster up the courage to tackle the main wales. As well, I may perhaps look into fitting out the area under the quarterdeck with cabin bulkheads, etc.

 

-starlight

 

 

 

[starlight]

I glued on the top strake of the main wales on both sides.

 

 

I know that technically the wales are supposed to blend smoothly into the rest of the planking at the stem but I didn't think I could pull that off and have it look nice. There will be no top-and-butt planking either for the same reason. I cut a rabbet into the stem to help hold the planks:

 

 

One thing I am still confused about is how to properly terminate the wales at the stern. The plans are not much help in this regard, so I would appreciate any comments.

 

-starlight

[allanyed]

Hi Starlight

 

There is a detailed drawing on how the strakes of the main wale end on the Fly and other Swan class vessels on page 17 of the Fully Framed Model series volume 2.  You can also see some detail if you research some the many photos of contemporary models on the RMG site.  One model that has a number of photos including a stern view is at https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66422   There are hundreds more.   There are also Swan class drawings on the RMG site as well that may help.  One includes https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-84445    

 

Regarding the tapering the thickness of the wale at the bow, once you add the missing two strakes to complete the main wale a sharp chisel makes this a very easy process followed by a little work with a sanding stick.   It looks intimidating but really is not at all difficult.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Allan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by allanyed

[Gregory]

There are some nice images here that may be of help:  Admiralty Models

[starlight]

@allanyed, @Gregory, thanks to both of you for your comments. I hadn't seen some of those references before so they were quite useful.

 

10 hours ago, allanyed said:

Regarding the tapering the thickness of the wale at the bow, once you add the missing two strakes to complete the main wale a sharp chisel makes this a very easy process followed by a little work with a sanding stick.   It looks intimidating but really is not at all difficult.

 

I will give this some more thought, Allan. I admit I am worried about weakening the planks, exposing the glue, keeping things symmetric, etc. What I should have done was reduce the thickness of the underlying 3 strakes on each side, but at that time I didn't know about the wales tapering in.

 

-starlight

[starlight]

It has been a while since my last post and progress has been slow.

 

I finished laying down the wales:

 

 

I am reasonably satisfied with how they terminate at the stern, which was a major concern of mine:

 

 

It was difficult to inspect the run of the wales so I applied a rough coat of black paint. I then began to lay out the run of the waist rail with tape. I did this by marking off where the rail intersects with the gunports based on the plans. Doing so, I noticed that the bridle ports seemed to be placed too high, creating a clear kink in the rail. This confuses me since the port locations are prescribed by the laser-cut gunport strips. Any advice would be appreciated. It looks to me as though the bridle ports should be moved down by a few mm:

 

 

That's all I have for now. I am still working on fitting out the guns and will make a set of posts when they are complete.

 

-starlight

[starlight]

Just another small update for today. As a way of procrastinating on the more important parts of the build, I decided to (once again) copy the great Blue Ensign and Dan Vadas and make a cabin bulkhead:

 

 

 

The frame is made from leftover lime wood strip from the 1st planking, the panels are 1 mm plywood, and the doorknobs are the heads of the brass pins that came with the kit. Still need to add the cants that mount the bulkhead to the deck. I'm afraid it doesn't hold a candle to the builds I based it off of, but I think it's the best I can do with hand tools.

 

Not sure yet if I will do the other bulkheads. I would still like to open up the stern cabin, just doing some more research first.

 

-starlight

[ccoyle]

I made this modification many, many moons ago, so my memory may be a bit fuzzy, but I seem to recall that the proper location for that beam is actually forward of the kit bulkheads. You can check this with the false quarterdeck to see whether the beam lies beneath the opening for the quarterdeck grating or not.

[starlight]

On 9/15/2022 at 3:48 PM, ccoyle said:

I made this modification many, many moons ago, so my memory may be a bit fuzzy, but I seem to recall that the proper location for that beam is actually forward of the kit bulkheads. You can check this with the false quarterdeck to see whether the beam lies beneath the opening for the quarterdeck grating or not.

 

Hi Chris, I completely forgot to reply to your comment. Currently the kit bulkhead beam (and by extension my partition panel) lies under the quarterdeck grating. Is this the proper location?

 

Measuring from the RMG plans for Fly suggests that the bulkhead panel should actually be moved a bit further aft:

 

 

-starlight

[ccoyle]

Yep, beneath the grating is definitely not correct, as the beam would largely block the open grate and thus defeat the purpose of placing a grate there in the first place.

[Blue Ensign]

The relationship between the bridle port and the others Is fixed as they are pre-cut on the pattern. The rail runs between the ports, above midway height, does your tape need a little tweaking?

There seems to be two options:

Run the rail smoothly along the hull letting it cross the Bridle port where it does.

Remove the planking in the area of the Bridle port, and infill to adjust the shape before re-planking. In this case the width of the Bridle port could be made slightly narrower, as was the actual case.

 

I think it more important that the rail looks to have a smooth sweep along the hull.

 

B.E.

 

 

[starlight]

On 10/3/2022 at 4:25 PM, ccoyle said:

Yep, beneath the grating is definitely not correct, as the beam would largely block the open grate and thus defeat the purpose of placing a grate there in the first place.

 

Thanks Chris, unfortunately this is the way the kit has been designed. Based on the other gratings I have made so far, it is hard to see through them so the beam would probably go unnoticed. I may just stick with leaving the bulkhead partition panel in this location since it will also be barely visible.

[starlight]

On 10/3/2022 at 6:23 PM, Blue Ensign said:

The relationship between the bridle port and the others Is fixed as they are pre-cut on the pattern. The rail runs between the ports, above midway height, does your tape need a little tweaking?

There seems to be two options:

Run the rail smoothly along the hull letting it cross the Bridle port where it does.

Remove the planking in the area of the Bridle port, and infill to adjust the shape before re-planking. In this case the width of the Bridle port could be made slightly narrower, as was the actual case.

 

I think it more important that the rail looks to have a smooth sweep along the hull.

 

B.E.

 

 

 

Thank you Blue Ensign,

 

I went ahead and lowered the bridle ports by about 2 mm. The run of the waist rail looks better to my eye now, but time will tell if this causes other problems. I did not end up reducing the width of the ports because I didn't think I could achieve a satisfactory result after laying new hull planking.

 

(lower edge of blue paint represents top edge of waist rail)