Making and using a draw plate

[Don Case]

I'm making a draw plate. I plan on using bamboo for treenails. How much diameter change should I have between holes?

When I'm using what I have now I taper the boo splint enough to go into the first hole, pull it through and the pliers mess up the taper so It won't go into the next hole. Is this normal? Do you find you have to re-taper the splint for each hole?

[hornet]

If you do a google image search for the Byrnes draw plate you can see the step down between hole sizes used. This drawplate is brilliant. As to cutting bamboo cleanly, I use a pair of cutters with very, very sharp, fine jaws. 

[Jaager]

I think:

This will cost more in time and tool wear than any perceived savings from DIY.

The Byrnes is on balance economical.

You can also use two tools that you will otherwise need to have anyway:

 

General Tool #15 1-60 drill gauge.

 

 

General Tool #13  61-80 drill gauge.

Both are SS and can be rubbed on a stone to renew the edge. 

Drill bits go astray and the gauge is needed to identify the size. 

 

If the alternative ready made option is an actual jewelers draw plate - a bad choice - expensive and made for actually drawing wire.  The sizes do not match wire gauge sizes.  They must be used from the wrong side, the taper does not help in grasping the bamboo and using a stone on the small size will enlarge the holes because of the taper (although that would take several lifetimes of rubbing). 

 

In my experience:

There are a blue million species of bamboo - which one is used in any particular bag of bamboo skewers no way to know.

Some are soft and draw easily, but are fragile.  Some are hard and fight being pealed into ever smaller diameters.

The interval between each drill number is often too wide.  Going back thru the same hole more than once but at an ever increasing angle might keep a stick from freezing up in the hole and being the devil to push out.  The harder species are worse at this.

It is not easy to get a grip on the stick.  It is difficult not to crush the tip too much to even get back thru a second pass without shaving a new point.  It is about an every pass step - long skewers help make it provide enough final length - after a tedious, frustrating, and time consuming process.

I have yet to find an ideal gripper.  I have the gripper used to pull wire - scissor action - coarse teeth - wants to crush - even with a piece of sandpaper between the surface and the stick.

I bought parallel grip pliers to try and something else featured here that is waiting for testing.  Something with a groove for the stick may reduce crushing.

 

A bag of plastic test tubes and a test tube stand is a way to store the variety of finished trunnels sorted per diameter.  Some sticks are not going to let you draw them down as small as you want.  They are still useful.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Jaager

[Don]

I would take a look at the Byrne's draw plate, it's a good price for the quality of the product.  Put it this way, my son has his own machine shop with full CNC machine capabilities and I still bought one from Jim.  It was just not worth it to make my own.  The reason for this I would only make only one and I am sure he makes them in batches which is far more economical.  Also his is nicely hardened and should stay sharp for a long time

 

There lots of stuff that may be cheaper and easier to make yourself than try to find commercially, this I just don't think is one of them.

Don F

[Bob Cleek]

22 hours ago, Jaager said:

You can also use two tools that you will otherwise need to have anyway:

 

General Tool #15 1-60 drill gauge.

 

 

General Tool #13  61-80 drill gauge.

Both are SS and can be rubbed on a stone to renew the edge. 

Drill bits go astray and the gauge is needed to identify the size. 

 

Quite true! If Jim Byrnes made drawplates with a range of larger diameters, I'd buy them in a hot minute. (Hint... Hint... Hint!)

 

The Byrnes drawplate is a great tool and well worth the price, but it covers a range of very, very small holes. I haven't used mine as much as my larger drawplates because I don't have much call for trunnels and pegs the diameter of a human hair!  You'll need a larger-holed drawplate to get down to the diameter where the Byrnes drawplate even begins. The drill gauges are a good option for the larger diameters and double as... well, drill gauges. 

 

 

On 2/4/2021 at 12:44 PM, Don Case said:

How much diameter change should I have between holes?

 

The short answer is "as little as possible." The less of a "bite" you take on each draw, the less resistance to the pulling and therefore the less breakage and problems holding on to the wood you are pulling through it. A drawplate for metal wire compresses and draws (stretches) the wire (making it longer, actually,) which is why metal wire drawplates have conical sides with a "big hole" side and a "small hole" side. Drawplates for wood scrape wood from the sides of the wood as it passes over the sharp edge of the parallel sides of the holes. This is a big difference between the two. You can flatten the back "small hole" side of a metal wire drawplate and, putting the wood in from the back "small hole" side, use them to fashion wooden dowels, but their conical sides promote breakage of the wood when the wood "wobbles" in the conical hole when being pulled through. 

 

(Note that there is also such a thing as a wooden drawplate which is used by jewelers to size and flatten metal chain links. Wire is wound round a mandrel and the links cut with a jeweler's saw parallel to the mandrel. The resulting round links are slid off the mandrel and linked and soldered individually. The chain is then pulled through the holes in the wooden chain gauge to flatten them into ovals of uniform size. These are great for making chain, but no good for anything else.)

 

The problem is, I don't know of anybody who makes drawplates for wood in a hole diameter range larger than the Byrnes drawplate. Sharpening the back of a drill gauge is apparently the only option. Making your own is possible, but, as said, the cost of the high quality small sized drill bits necessary to drill the required small sized holes is going to set one back far more than the cost of a couple of good drill gauges and a Byrnes drawplate, assuming, even that one can get the job done without breaking a lot of expensive tiny drill bits.

[Don Case]

I'm one of those guys that like to make my stuff. That and I'm waiting for my copy of TAONS before I start anything ship related. So I made a draw plate and I'll give a quick review of how it went. I started by cutting the end of an old hand saw blade. I started drilling holes and my old titanium coated drills would work but none of my new HSS ones would cut it. So I tried to anneal it and it warped big time. Even after it was annealed the HSS bits wouldn't drill it. I went and pouted for an hour. Then I tried a piece of stainless steel kind of in desperation. It drilled well and I got all the holes done. When I tried pulling the boo through it with mixed results. Then I re-read Jaager's post and he mentioned sharpening a draw plate by using a stone to flatten the out part of the hole. This worked like a charm. I was under the impression that you left that side rough and that's what cut the dowel. I was wrong. I had centerpunched the metal before I drilled and that dimpled the metal causing a high spot on the back. This makes it easier to sharpen. I think rather aggressive center punching would be a good thing. Anyway I think it was a success, time will tell. I had to buy some drill bits but I still brought it in under the $25 that a Byrnes cost but just. Buying one is probably the best idea for most people but I get immense satisfaction from making my own stuff.   

[jimbyr]

So,  what sizes would you like the holes to be if I made a new one

 

Jim

[druxey]

I've yet to meet anyone who regretted trading up to a Byrnes' drawplate. Really. And I was one of the earlier adopters.

[dvm27]

Just curious, Don, what scale model are you making? With the Byrnes drawplate I can draw bamboo down to a no. 79 drill bit hole but there is a lot of wastage and a lot depends on the quality of the bamboo. If you're working in 1/4"-1ft scale I should think nos. 70-76 should cover most of your trunnel needs.

[Don Case]

4 hours ago, jimbyr said:

So,  what sizes would you like the holes to be if I made a new one

 

Jim

I'm not sure if this was for me or everyone.🙂 I've never tried one of your draw plates because I just prefer making my own stuff. I do have a question. Are you plates drilled in .001" increments? One of the things I noticed when making one is that numbered bits don't go up in even steps the difference can take a bigger jump sometimes. I'm wondering if that's when they hang up. Anyway I'm sure yours is 10X better than mine.

[Don Case]

3 hours ago, dvm27 said:

Just curious, Don, what scale model are you making? With the Byrnes drawplate I can draw bamboo down to a no. 79 drill bit hole but there is a lot of wastage and a lot depends on the quality of the bamboo. If you're working in 1/4"-1ft scale I should think nos. 70-76 should cover most of your trunnel needs.

Mine is going to be 1:48. Right now the smallest hole is .035(I ran out of drills) and if I draw it though a few times I can get it down to.030 which is about 1 1/2". I'm not sure if I'm happy with that or not. I'm toying with the idea of a "stand off" scale if I can't find any better info. Still no results n my e-mails.

[jimbyr]

Don

 

The holes range from .016  - .059.  They are drill sizes 53 - 78

 

Jim

[Don Case]

Thanks Jim. I am very very new at this. I have only split out about 20 splints of bamboo and I had a lot of difficulty getting any length to them at anything much smaller than 1/16" square. Is there a step I'm missing because quite a few of them would not go through a no 53 hole? From my very limited experience a few more holes on the big end may help. Then again yours would definitely cut better than mine.

I thought long and hard about posting this because I am so new but what the hey🙂

[Bob Cleek]

On 2/5/2021 at 3:47 PM, jimbyr said:

So,  what sizes would you like the holes to be if I made a new one

 

Jim

How about something like a quarter inch down to 1/64th, or wherever the small Byrnes drawplate begins? That would allow for more than just trunnels. Spars could be sized as well and then tapered as needed.