USS Constitution by Avi - BlueJacket Shipcrafters - 1:96

[Avi]

Redid the rudder. Used an iron to heat up the copper, removed all the plates, cut my finger (optional), sanded it down, then sanded a curve, primed, painted, and applied new copper. 
 

Giving it a day, then will wax and varnish. 
 

Bluejacket is sending me replacement gudgeons and pintles of the correct width, but they will not arrive for a few weeks. 

[Avi]

Well, in a funny twist, bluejacket sent it to my brother in the USA, who came for a visit. He opened the envelope to check it when it arrived, then put it in his baggage… but didn’t realize until he got here that it had fallen out of the envelope while packing. Oops. 😆 

[MrBlueJacket]

Oops indeed. Can he send it to you without great expense? At least you can work onother tings in the meantime.

 

Nic

[Avi]

Yeah. I’ve got someone visiting near him in a week, she will bring it back. Phew. 

[Bill Morrison]

On 5/20/2023 at 1:06 AM, aliluke said:

Hi Avi

Just looked through your log - very nice work indeed. But I'm confused by your coppering technique and it seems to frustrate you as well. Why at 1/96 - a very small scale- are you overlapping the plates? It seems like a near pointless detail that is causing the frustration and it appears to be "ruffling" the lines of the hull. Why not just butt joint them and the problem goes away? Why are you doing them in sections rather than them running full length side to side?

 

On my Fly model at 1/64 they are just butt jointed and I laid each row, starting at the keel - stem to stern, side to side before I moved up to the next row. All glued with a light coating of CA. The plates follow the planking lines and are snipped to the correct angle when they reach the waterline. At least for Fly or Pegasus this the correct layout for these ships. They aren't the Constitution of course so I can't speak to that.

 

I have no idea how you'll be able to match the sectional approach from side to side. I'm also confused about why the kit supplies them as individual plates when you can get them as strips which work quickly and accurately for long horizontal runs? With strips you can snip off individual planks to work with the upward flow made by imperceivable increments. The strips with butt joints also keep the flow of the hull intact and avoid the "ruffling" effect that I see and remove the adhesion problems as well.

 

I can't help feeling that you are digging a hole with your method and it looks like it'll just get deeper as it progresses.

 

My more radical advice would be to de-bond what you have done and take a simpler line of approach. Strips if you can get them, butt joints (for sure), run them full length and from side to side and go with the planking flow from the keel upwards. I'd see this as a make or break moment as an outcome below the waterline that detracts, for you!!!, from all of the work beforehand will always detract from all of that work and all of it afterwards.

 

I hope you take this as intended - advice from someone who has coppered a hull (but not done a Constitution build!) and had a relatively easy time of it.

When I built the old PoF by Aeropiccola several years ago, I coppered the hull. The ship was in 1/180 scale, and I overlapped the plates. It worked beautifully.  The model was of HMS Victory.

 

[Bill Morrison]

On 12/17/2023 at 10:30 PM, Bill Morrison said:

Avi,

 

There is nothing in particular. There are so many videos that are helpful.  They are great!

 

Bill

Just log into YouTube.com and search for Coppering on a Model Ship.  Or just perform a search in your search engine.  You will not be disappointed!

 

Bill

[mtdoramike]

On 5/15/2023 at 3:11 AM, Avi said:

I did some work using contact cement. I found it to be a more solid hold in general, but really difficult to work with. It dries quite quickly, into a goopy rubber (well, it is rubber). That made applying it to the plates while the hull dried challenging.

 

it also was challenging to do the overlap (higher plate over lower, forward over aft). That was the weakest point of contact even before; with contact cement, I end up with the overlapping plate having some contact cement on it, while the outside of the copper plate beneath has none. Didn’t make for the best seal. 
 

I did manage to do about 45-50 plates like that. 
 

The best way I have found to apply copper plating is to use copper foil tape that has a sticky back. Run it down the length of the hull, cut it, stick it and then come back with a sharp utility knife and score it how ever size plates you want. But first I start off with a smooth hull, no divits, then seal the wooden hull with a coat of poly to give the plates something to stick to. 

[Avi]

I’m actually pretty happy with the copper that’s on the hull. My gudgeons and pintles finally showed up, so going to get those trimmed, painted and applied, and finally move on to the gundeck. 

[Avi]

Rudder shipped. The gudgeons and pintles aren’t permanently attached to each other, in case I need to remove them for work. But they are glued to the hull and rudder, respectively. 
 

I had them primed and painted, then attached them. And when I did, most of the paint came right off. I had to do another coat or two. And I suspect more in the future. But good for now. 

[Gregory]

I don't know if that's close to your final look, but the rudder would be almost flush with the stern post.

Your arrangement looks rather incongruous.  Sorry to sound critical, but I wouldn't want that to detract from an otherwise excellent build.

The kit supplied gudgeons and pintles  may leave something to be desired, or require a lot of work to get a good fit.

[Avi]

Yeah I saw that as well. But I’ve no idea how to get that. The gudgeons and pintles are as flush as possible with the hull and rudder. How would you get it in closer?

[JSGerson]

If you don't need to make the rudder move, make your own pseudo hinges and pin the rudder to to the post. Or, if you do want the moveable rudder, that will take some skill and creativeness to make your own working gudgeons and pintles. My MS model is a larger scale (1:76.8) and I made the working rudder with some effort. I don't know if I would have tried it at 1:96.

 

Jon

Edited June 17 by JSGerson

[Gregory]

Here is the rudder attachment from Chuck's Winchelsea.  It is typical.

The pintles are countersunk into the rudder and the gudgeons are no bigger than the slot where the pins are.

I'm surprised the Bluejacket plans don't show this more clearly.

The kit supplied parts may have to be modified somewhat, or you might consider making your own. 

I made the gudgeons and pintles on my Resolution from cardstock.

Your rudder would also require some modification to fit correctly.

Keep in mind that it doesn't have to go together like the real thing to look good.

For my Resolution, I put the Pintle pin in the gudgeon, rather than hang the rudder as in actual practice.  Then I used small pins to fix the rudder to the stern post.

You might find a different way that suits you better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bill Morrison]

On 6/16/2024 at 12:19 PM, Gregory said:

I don't know if that's close to your final look, but the rudder would be almost flush with the stern post.

Your arrangement looks rather incongruous.  Sorry to sound critical, but I wouldn't want that to detract from an otherwise excellent build.

The kit supplied gudgeons and pintles  may leave something to be desired, or require a lot of work to get a good fit.

I agree.

 

Bill

[MrBlueJacket]

One thing about modeling - it doesn't have to mimic the full size, just LOOK like the full size. I agree with some thin material and pinning the rudder. The rest of your build is excellent, BTW

 

Nic

[Bill Morrison]

On 6/16/2024 at 12:19 PM, Gregory said:

I don't know if that's close to your final look, but the rudder would be almost flush with the stern post.

Your arrangement looks rather incongruous.  Sorry to sound critical, but I wouldn't want that to detract from an otherwise excellent build.

The kit supplied gudgeons and pintles  may leave something to be desired, or require a lot of work to get a good fit.

He did say that the pintels and gudgeons were temporarily mounted and that corrections were to be made.

 

Bill

[Gregory]

I also said: " I don't know if that's close to your final look..."

[Avi]

I plan on removing them from the rudder and cutting in to countersink them. This whole discussion has been quite helpful, thanks!

[Avi]

It was a lot of work, including cutting through copper and then adding plates where they got ruined or where I cut too high, but rudder looks better. 
 

I think this stage finally is done. Next post will be about starting the gundeck. 

[Avi]

About that gundeck. I’ve got the glued up planking, which is four sheets. Each deck (gun and spar) is two sheets side by side. My plan is to cut the sheets for the spardeck but not quite snug, just a bit too big, 1-2 mm around. Then I’ll take one of the cannon and glue it together with glue that comes apart easily, as I’m not planning on painting yet, just using it for measuring. I’ll probably use Elmer’s glue, which I hear can be removed with vinegar. Open to suggestions. 
 

Either way, I’ll use the cannon to determine what the correct deck height should be at each point, by placing it on the deck planking at the gunport. Where the deck needs to be higher, extra hull planking under the deck planking will provide the boost. Since it is so very thin, I can get tiny gradations. 
 

I expect to start around mid to late August. 

[KurtH]

I also used glued up planking.  Following the instructions, I used 1/16" wide planking which turned out to be wrong.  On the real ship the planks are 9" wide tapering to 6" at the stern.  Tapering is not an option with the glued up planking, so If I had it to do over, I would use 3/32" rather than the 1/16".  The photos of Arnot's model in the instruction book does show this size.  My kit did not include planking for the spar deck, so I ordered the planking needed from BJ.  They sent me 3/32" wide strips which made no sense because they provided 1/16" wide scribed planking sheets for the gun deck in the kit.  Since I realized the problem too late to change the gun deck, I ended up using 1/16" size for both decks to be consistent, and used the provided 3/32" strips for the outer hull planking.

[Avi]

@KurtH I don’t understand. The glued up planking comes as sheets. They just are used as the deck. What did you mean by you would use 3/32” rather than 1/16”?

 

it sound like you mean actual planking strips, but how do those fit into that?

 

You also reference the photos in Arnot’s book. Where were you able to see the deck plank width in there?

[ERS Rich]

 

3 hours ago, Avi said:

3/32” rather than 1/16

The distance between the black lines, that simulate caulk on the sheet of decking.

[Avi]

Do you mean you would order different sheets?

[KurtH]

The glued up sheets consists of strips of basswood glued together edge to edge with black glue which simulates caulking.   The strips which make up these sheets can be 1/16" wide, 3/32" wide, and, I believe, 1/8" wide.  At 1/96 scale, these would simulate  planking which is 6", 9", or 12" wide respectively.  The deck plan sheet provided in the kit specifies planking which is 1/16" wide.    The decking sheets provided in the kit (assuming your kit is  like mine) are scribed rather than glued up.  I like the simulated caulking, so I ordered the glued up sheets from BJ.  I ordered the sheet which was made up of strips 1/16" wide because that was what the deck plan specified.  The plan is wrong.  The Constitution has 9" wide planks which is 3/32" at 1/96 scale.  I thought I would give you a heads up on that.  The photos to which I referred in my post can be found on page 39 of the instruction manual.  The planking there is clearly 3/32" wide.  By the way, glued up decking should only be used if you leave the deck bright.  If you plan to paint it or stain it dark the planking detail will simply disappear.  Plank the deck yourself or use scribed decking sheets if you plan to do that.

[Avi]

Ok now I completely understand what you are saying. I see it in the pictures as well. I also have the glued up planking (as well as the scribed that comes with the kit), and just checked the order, it is indeed 1/16”. 
 

If anyone comes across this in the future, here are useful links:

- 1/16” glued up decking

- 3/32” glued up decking 

- ⅛” glued up decking

- 3/16” glued up decking
 

I will take them out and look at them against the ship, see if the 1/16 vs 3/32 is visible enough for me to want the other planking. I also have various bits of planking around, so I can get some feel for it. 
 

It is frustrating, like the gudgeons and pintles, there are too many places in the model or book where the information is wrong, leading you to make mistakes or order the wrong parts. The book itself is in serious need of review, revision and modernization (cc @MrBlueJacket).

 

thanks for going into the detail @KurtH; it really helps

[Avi]

Actually, maybe I will paint the cannon. That way I can glue them together and be done with it. 
 

does anyone have recommendations as to how to paint this metal? I assume it is the same stuff as the gudgeons and pintles; I wasn’t so impressed with how the paint stuck to it. With the wood, the primer sinks into it. With the metal, it sort of attaches. Kind of. 

[ERS Rich]

19 hours ago, Avi said:

With the wood, the primer sinks into it. With the metal, it sort of attaches. Kind of.

Hi Avi,

 

I paint with Vallejo.

 

For metal I’ve had good results with Mr Metal Primer.

 

And for wood, it needs to be sealed before painting, as mentioned before I go with shellac or a natural stain.

 

And hang in there.  A difference at scale between a 6” or a 9” plank isn’t significant.  It won’t be noticeable after the cannon and all the deck structures are installed, plus the masts and rigging.

 

Cheers!

 

-Rich

[Avi]

actually just stumbled across Mr Metal last night. Couldn’t find anyone here who carries it, or any online seller who ships it. On a lark, checked aliexpress… and they have it! Two bottles here in two weeks

[Avi]

In the meantime I started in the deck planking. 
 

I took the two half sheets, lay them side by side, and saw they don’t exactly align. 

 

I sanded them down to get them much closer. Then I used a permanent black marker along the border where they meet. I was extra careful on the top, but slipped a few times on the bottom; who cares?

 

 

I taped the two sheets together with masking tape on the underside. 

 

I lay the paper cutout on top, taped it down, marked with a pencil, and then cut around it. I intentionally cut too big.

 

 

 

 

I then slowly trimmed it down with a sharp blade, and then sanding sticks for finer control. It’s not done yet, but close.