HMS Victory by Will Ferris - Caldercraft - 1:72

[mort stoll]

I've never aged my copper plates. I prefer them to age naturally. They look more realistic I feel as they don't all age at the same pace.

Previous to my Victory I used Weldwood Contact Cement whenever I coppered a hull. I always had the fans and a mask on and windows open in my ship room when I worked.

 

Just before coppering on my Victory was to begin I heard that Weldwood  had a low odor formula contact cement. I tried it and it was fine. Didn't need a mask. 

 

I prefer contact cement because it allows me a few seconds to adjust the position of the plate should I have to after it's placed on the hull.  If further adjustment is necessary after the plate is dry, or a day or so later I simply heat the plate or plates with my plank bender and readjust the plates. No problem.

Good luck. It's a great kit.  Keep up the good work.

Mort

 

 

 

 

 

[Will Ferris]

Latest Progress & Solutions:

 

So I thought I'd try sticking the majority of my upper gun deck planking down all at once seeing as I had already stuck it to some tape to check the layout:

• Used a piece of 23 TPI pull saw blade as notched glue trowel to ensure a nice even coverage. (Kind of like what you'd use for tile.)
• Laid down both pieces of tape-plank assemblies, pushing and wriggling until all the planks were well imbedded in the glue.
• Used a single AA battery to carefully unroll the tape off the planking.
• Needed to push a few stragglers back into place, but this method saved considerable time. (Yes, some of my course breaks are indeed a tad crooked, but still not too bad for about 15 minutes worth of work.)

My experimental flush-cut bit arrived today as well, so I was able to accurately trim back all planking to the underlying plywood openings.

I did need to slightly modify it to get rid of the tiny gap between the bearing and the cutting blades and I'll still need to do some filing in the corners, but this also was a massive time-saver.

Before:                                                                                   After:

During:

I Also hit the openings in the newly glued deck.

[Keith Black]

 Will, you're hitting on all eight, looks really good. 

[Robp1025]

Nice fixes for sure!! The upper deck is nice as well is that how the kit comes with no false deck under the planking? 

[Will Ferris]

Thanks Maliba, I'm not quite sure what you mean by false deck.  The kit comes with a big piece of laser cut thin plywood that is a persnickety pain to shape and install.  See photo of it below before planking.

[Robp1025]

Ok yea that's what I meant just never saw anyone use the tape so was interested. 

[mort stoll]

Hi Will,

Meant to add that when I used regular contact cement I only used the 3 ounce bottles and applied the cement to 150x40mm area which kept the fumes to a minimum.  The low odor contact cement  was only available in a 32 ounce can.

 

Mort

[Keith Black]

 Will, updates? Inquiring minds want to know. 

[Will Ferris]

Caldercraft HMS Victory build Update

 

After gluing down the rest of the upper gun deck planking, I removed the majority of the smudged graphite by scraping it off with a bit of broken glass (For the uneven spots & corners - Thank you Lucien) and a razor. (For the field - Thank you Keith)

 

I then sanded going from 150# to 400# with a combination of multi-tool, Proxxon detail sander, and hand-sanding.

This was followed by four applications of a vinegar-steel wool stain.  After about three treatments, I noticed that the planks were not darkening anymore.  I was looking for a more weathered silvery grey like I had seen on so many other wonderful builds (Anyone who has not checked out Gil Middleton's Victory log should do so asap!) but after viewing the gun deck portion of a walk-through video on Youtube, I felt a bit better, and the color actually started growing on me a bit.

I then assembled all of the grating, stairways, shot garlands, etc. that comprise the upper gun deck fixings.  I wanted to be able to accurately mask off these areas before applying a final finish to the planking.  I learned the hard way that cannon balls are best glued in last just before painting.  It's not a good idea to work with them over shag carpeting either.  Not all of the holed planks on the sheet where the shot garland boards are found are meant for cannon balls; quite a number of them are actually meant for bitt pins.  (I'm already set up to assemble the garlands, so why not get all of them out of the way, right?)  I ended up having to acetone-soak off more than a few.

 

I then applied two coats of hand-rubbed oil base polyurethane sanding with 400# after each coat. (Final hand-sanding with 1500#.)

 

I am now in the process of hashing out how to install the eight gun port liners per the manual (See rectangular rod stock "installation" tool in photo below.

 

At this point, I could probably go in a number of directions:

 

Up next:

• Start experimenting with a brass blackening agent I ordered for the cannons. (...and other brass stuff.)
• Is there any reason I can't finish all the gun port liners now? (No, I obviously didn't learn my lesson from my cannon ball screw-up.)
• Install all fixings, stairs, railings, etc for the main gun deck. (Or should I wait until after coppering the hull for this step?)
• Wales installation.
• Copper tiles installation - Still researching adhesives and installation tools.  Gil's copper job with tape is immaculate, but I'm going to try to stick with the tiles that came with the kit.)  I have been told that I need to apply any aging (patinating) solution to each individual tile before installation.  Why?  I would think a far better result (not to mention faster) would be obtained by treating the copper after it has been installed, not before.  Any one have any thoughts here?  Am I going to screw myself somehow by coppering the rudder now as well? (The manual doesn't address this until much later in the build.)
• Painting as needed.

Any insight, imparted by people keeping an eye on me is most gratefully heeded, but unfortunately not necessarily followed due to a sporadic propensity for stone-headedness on my part.

 

I really appreciate everyone's help!

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Will Ferris

[Robp1025]

1 hour ago, Will Ferris said:

Caldercraft HMS Victory build Update

 

After gluing down the rest of the upper gun deck planking, I removed the majority of the smudged graphite by scraping it off with a bit of broken glass (For the uneven spots & corners - Thank you Lucien) and a razor. (For the field - Thank you Keith)

 

I then sanded going from 150# to 400# with a combination of multi-tool, Proxxon detail sander, and hand-sanding.

This was followed by four applications of a vinegar-steel wool stain.  After about three treatments, I noticed that the planks were not darkening anymore.  I was looking for a more weathered silvery grey like I had seen on so many other wonderful builds (Anyone who has not checked out Gil Middleton's Victory log should do so asap!) but after viewing the gun deck portion of a walk-through video on Youtube, I felt a bit better, and the color actually started growing on me a bit.

I then assembled all of the grating, stairways, shot garlands, etc. that comprise the upper gun deck fixings.  I wanted to be able to accurately mask off these areas before applying a final finish to the planking.  I learned the hard way that cannon balls are best glued in last just before painting.  It's not a good idea to work with them over shag carpeting either.  Not all of the holed planks on the sheet where the shot garland boards are found are meant for cannon balls; quite a number of them are actually meant for bitt pins.  (I'm already set up to assemble the garlands, so why not get all of them out of the way, right?)  I ended up having to acetone-soak off more than a few.

 

I then applied two coats of hand-rubbed oil base polyurethane sanding with 400# after each coat. (Final hand-sanding with 1500#.)

 

I am now in the process of hashing out how to install the eight gun port liners per the manual (See rectangular rod stock "installation" tool in photo below.

 

At this point, I could probably go in a number of directions:

 

Up next:

• Start experimenting with a brass blackening agent I ordered for the cannons. (...and other brass stuff.)
• Is there any reason I can't finish all the gun port liners now? (No, I obviously didn't learn my lesson from my cannon ball screw-up.)
• Install all fixings, stairs, railings, etc for the main gun deck. (Or should I wait until after coppering the hull for this step?)
• Wales installation.
• Copper tiles installation - Still researching adhesives and installation tools.  Gil's copper job with tape is immaculate, but I'm going to try to stick with the tiles that came with the kit.)  I have been told that I need to apply any aging (patinating) solution to each individual tile before installation.  Why?  I would think a far better result (not to mention faster) would be obtained by treating the copper after it has been installed, not before.  Any one have any thoughts here?  Am I going to screw myself somehow by coppering the rudder now as well? (The manual doesn't address this until much later in the build.)
• Painting as needed.

Any insight, imparted by people keeping an eye on me is most gratefully heeded, but unfortunately not necessarily followed due to a sporadic propensity for stone-headedness on my part.

 

I really appreciate everyone's help!

I'm not too super knowledgeable about doing models but my vote would be to get the copper and hull itself done before doing fittings for the main deck. That way your not fighting with fragile pieces and possibly messing something up with your moving the hull around to get all the copper on. 

[Will Ferris]

Mailba, Good call!  Even if I were to do just the ones on the main gun deck, they'd still be just more things to break during the copper, liners, wales, etc.

Thank you Sir!

[Robp1025]

1 hour ago, Will Ferris said:

Mailba, Good call!  Even if I were to do just the ones on the main gun deck, they'd still be just more things to break during the copper, liners, wales, etc.

Thank you Sir!

Your quite welcome my friend 🙂🙂

[Keith Black]

 Will, I think the deck looks fantastic, I really like the color. I agree with Maliba 100%, get the hull finished before adding bits to the deck.....patience.

 

 I've never coppered a hull so I maybe talking out of my hat but, I'd start at the waterline and move down. That way the uneven tile are hidden along the garboard/keel edge and can't be seen when the model is on it's stand. I'd wait to copper the rudder till the hull was coppered, that way you can match the tile line from the hull to the rudder making for a even flowing look.

 

 You're doing a great, keep up the good work.

[Keith Black]

13 hours ago, Will Ferris said:

Start experimenting with a brass blackening agent

 Will, of all the blackening agents I've used, Birchwood Casey brass black is the best. Birchwood Casey also makes a plum brown which sounds intriguing but I've never had the need or didn't know that I had the need.  I'd like to play with it for grins and giggles just to see what the actual color is. 

 

 As far as antiquing the copper tiles after applying to the hull.......that's the way I'd want to go but one would have to make certain that there were no CA spots or you'd get a splotchy coloration. The hull would need to be as clean as you could possibly make it. I kinda like the egg shell approach, take three eggs and call me in the morning. 

[Gregory]

9 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

egg shell

Correction:  " boiled eggs " ..  😁

[mort stoll]

I would do the gun port linings now and then copper the hull and rudder but not install the rudder until later in order to avoid damaging it during the stern assembly.

Hope this helps,

Mort

 

 

 

[Keith Black]

8 minutes ago, mort stoll said:

do the gun port linings now and then copper the hull and rudder but not install the rudder until later

 Mort, wouldn't you wait to copper the rudder until after the hull was coppered?

 

 

17 minutes ago, Gregory said:

Correction:  " boiled eggs " ..  😁

 Sorry, Gregory, boiled eggs..........heck, I was lucky to remember eggs were involved! 

[Chris_P]

Will, your deck looks great ! Thanks for your information on coppering my Agamemnon it’s helped me enormously. Nearly two weeks and stripping off and restarting it’s been a hard journey for me. I made a stand to help keep the hull steady when upside down. With regard to your next stage I would suggest that you start the coppering. It would be good to watch your progress ! Always willing for suggestions and how you will start yours. 
PS I have been offered a Caldercraft Victory which a neighbour has started but due to health issues won’t be able to complete. One for my next build possibly  

[mort stoll]

Yes you can.  I coppered my rudder and dry fitted it and then put it away until after I complete the stern.  It's a matter of choice. I wanted to complete all of the copering in one step. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Will Ferris]

Caldercraft HMS Victory build Update

 

Hi All

 

Keith - Thank you for the advice; a bottle of Birchwood Casey Brass Black arrived this week. I just haven't started playing with it yet.

Chris - Congrats on scoring the Caldercraft Victory Kit!  How far "started" is it?  I know what you mean about making a stand.  I found it very hard to do anything on the model unless it was securely screwed or clamped to the bench.

Mort - How did you get the copper tiles to to follow all of those hinge notches (not to mention other curves and shapes) in the rudder?

Greg - I'm giving the rotten eggs (Sorry - Boiled rotten eggs...) some thought.  I saw, from your example, that the copper seemed to finish up a bit browner than I'm looking for. (still wonderfully weathered though!) Does the "eggs" method have a variant to allow for a bit of green? (well, more of a turquoise really...)

 

So here's the week's progress:

 

Gun port liners - The whole key to this is the precisely sized stick. (I planed down the original one I had used to line up plywood gun port openings - See last photo of previous post.) I started gluing them together with CA glue, but they kept falling apart after getting stuck to either me or the stick.  PVA glue proved to be the best for this. - I'm a big believer in Titebond II.  This allowed me a bit of time to make fine adjustments, proved elastic enough to handle abuse without falling apart, and still "tacked up" in good time. (10 min+/-) I used two 3/4" plywood blocks on wax paper to help me initially glue them. together.

 

After I had three sides glued, I used the stick to get the precise opening for the final side.  There's a fine line between letting the glue dry enough to secure the fourth side, yet not enough to accidentally glue the liner to the stick.

 

I then carefully inserted the liners in the openings with the stick before scribing them with a sharpie pen. (I tried pencil, but just couldn't see the line.)

 

Then over to my homemade sanding station to sand them almost down to the lines.

 

Gluing them in place.

 

After the glue dried, I sanded both sides flush to the plywood using some homemade sanding sticks.

 

I installed painted planks on the upper gun deck inner bulwark patterns, letting them run over the edges of the gunport linings.  I didn't get as detailed as Gill Middleton, but I did add a small bit of baseboard.

 

While waiting for things to dry, I checked lower gun port sizes with the kit supplied lids, filing and sanding as needed.

 

I also temporarily clamped the beakhead bulkhead into place and installed the upper gun deck bow planking so that I would be ready to continue hull planking and wales.

 

I used a micro-wood rasp, square file, and sanding strip to finish up the inner bulwark planking at the gunports. (The one on the right is done.)

 

Final painting of upper gundeck inner bulwark  planking after some re-sanding.

 

I then continued the hull planking up to just below the upper gun deck gunports. (I want to paint the liners before planking past them.)

 

Pending:

Wales

Lower and middle gun deck gun port liners.

 

Please let me know your thoughts/alternate methods.  Thank you guys!

[Keith Black]

14 hours ago, Will Ferris said:

after getting stuck to either me or the stick.

 LOL, if I had a nickel every time that same thing has happened to me.........

 

 Beautiful work, Will, she's looking sharp!

Edited May 3, 2021 by Keith Black

[mort stoll]

Hi Will,

I carefully bent the copper plates using the small Exacto chisel blade as sort of a bending aid for support . I put the blade over the plate and bent it. I trimmed them with an Exacto chisel, a Dr. Slick microtop scissor - used in fly fishing -  and a cuticle scissor. The plates are easy to shape as they are not that thick.

Hope this helps, if not don't hesitate.

Keep up the great work,

Mort  

 

   

[Will Ferris]

Caldercraft HMS Victory build Update

 

Hi All,

 

I have spent the entire week working on getting more hull planking on per the manual "clearing the gun ports as I go." 

 

I think next ship I will not "clear the gun ports" until after I have sanded as I had a rather nasty time trying to sand around the port openings. (The paper kept getting snagged on them.) 

 

Using a sand sponge achieved similar results.  this left thinned planking around the edges of most gun ports. 

 

I also didn't discover a gap in the planking until I had completely finished the bow. this caused the top course on the stbd side to be slightly raised when compared to it's port counterpart.  I tried heat, various solvents, etc to soften the titebond 2 glue, but it was to no avail.  Any one have any ideas?

 

I then did a round of wood filling followed by some light sanding with #400 to remove the over-fill.

 

Next: Glue on the wales.

Thank you again.  It will be a while until my next update as I'm due to be away for about two months due to work.

 

 

 

[Keith Black]

 Will, the hull looks positively peachy.

 

 Were it I, I'd sand the top starboard side plank down to match the port side plank. Save the sawdust and mix with some yellow glue, fill the crack, and sand as needed. 

 

 We'll miss seeing you about, be careful out there....Keith

[Gregory]

Keith is right on..  I don't think that gap has a chance to be noticed after all the bow detail is in place..

Edited May 10, 2021 by Gregory

[Will Ferris]

Caldercraft HMS Victory build Update

 

Hi All,

 

I'm back after a 7 week hitch offshore.  Confession:  the last job was delayed for a week so I was able to make some progress but was too much of a slacker to post.  I am prepared to rectify that condition now.

 

I did get the wales glued on; Keith and Greg were both right; the uneven deck heights at the bow somehow evened out with some creative sanding and "plank cheating" for lack of a better term.  (I ran the wales plank a wee bit high on one side, and a wee bit low on the other.) I noticed that even though I started out the first wale planks exactly as instructed, the spacing still came out wrong when finished. (See wale spacing at stern galleries in last photo of this post.)

 

Clearing ports:  (I already did this once, but it never occurred to me that I would need to do it again after the wales went on.  I have learned my lesson, but big time waste.  For anyone following this build as an instructional, I would definitely wait to clear your gun ports (precisely trimming them to final size and bevel.) until after you've installed your wales and final hull sanding. - Or maybe I'm missing something. Please feel free to comment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I then pre-assembled all my liners after measuring the angles of all the gun ports at each deck. (See previous posts for example.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...And quickly discovered I had to create a way to set/hold them in place while the glue dried.  I used CA glue a the corners just to get them in place followed by a needle bead of PVA glue all around for final install.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The liners were painted. I did leave them a bit messy with the intention of using the black and yellow (Well, now sort of "peach-ish" if current research prevails...) primary hull colors to get final definition.  I then leveled out the hull, and used a "Sharpie-micro" pen to mark the waterline (I just couldn't see the pencil line.) before using an airbrush and modeler's masking tape to apply the flat black coat to the water line as instructed before starting the copper tiles.

 

There's been a lot of talk about the best method of copper tiling.  Here's what I'm doing: 

 

I completely acknowledge the fact that the original HMS Victory did not have a double row of rivets at each seam between tiles, but after deciding I would indeed tile, I have decided to use the ones that came with the kit.  I have chickened out and applied a single piece of copper tape to my keel/bow/rudder mount, as I could not figure out a way to bend or coax the tiles around these components in a way that looked even vaguely acceptable. (The #^%@$ things kept falling off regardless of adhesive, not to mention looking saw-toothed and uneven. - Any insight into this including forming/bending the tiles around the rudder, compound shapes, etc. would be greatly appreciated.)

 

I did not want to use CA glue due to it's quick dry time and propensity for tiling fingers rather than hull.  I wanted an adhesive that would allow me 5 - 10 minutes of workability and was "trowelable." I tried experimenting with "Loctite Power-Grab Ultimate Crystal Clear" after getting sucked in by the snazzy name, but it proved no better than clear silicone caulk.  I could pick off individual tiles with just a fingernail after it had fully cured.  The "PL" series (-100, -200, -300, -400...) adhesives "skinned" over too quick after initial application as well, rendering them inadequate.

 

...Fine.  Crazy glue it is.  I settled on the thick stuff applied to the bare wood hull instead of the individual tile.  I "troweled" it out using a piece of 32 tpi hacksaw blade pounded flat to ensure an even coat that didn't ooze out between tiles, keeping a "wet edge" as I went.  I am keeping a jar of acetone and a good supply of Q-tips handy for when I do accidentally get glue on a finger, the top surface of a tile, etc.

 

Many people endorsed a vacuum pick-up tool to help with placement.  The one I picked up has been working well, but I do wish I had spent a tad more and gotten one with stronger suction.

 

I found the best way to get straight copper tile cuts was to just use a utility knife blade and a small weight (in this case 7/8" hex hvy nut) to precisely chop tiles using a piece of 1/4" polycarbonate sheet (6" x 6" is more than large enough.) as a cutting board.  This method requires surprisingly little force and is very precise.  (The manual endorsed using a rounded exacto blade worked continuously over the copper on a ceramic tile until it cleaved the copper. - I found this to be almost useless.  Multiple passes required caused my fingers to go numb.  The results were messy and inaccurate, and the blade and ceramic tile had to be replaced very often.)  A good pair of beefy scissors handled the rest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am about to attempt tiling the large areas of the hull.  As usual, everyone's input is greatly welcome!

Here's a photo taken this morning:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Post Script:  Notice the stern gallery windows in the above photo.  The "glass" is missing because I accidentally blew a few of them out when "de-dusting" my model with 120 psi. air before deciding that the remaining ones were not installed well enough to remain either.  ( had glued in the scissor-cut acetate strips with a "fog-free" adhesive that barely "adhesed" and was far from "fog-free.")  I have since mastered the art of cutting coverslip glass with a diamond scribe, but it's still going to be fun getting them installed at this point! - Again, any ideas?

Edited July 11, 2021 by Will Ferris

[Keith Black]

 Will, welcome back, good to see you back at the workbench. Fantastic work you're doing, I'm super impressed! 

[mort stoll]

Hi Will,

 

When I installed the stern gallery windows I glazed them as you did. As luck would have it during the course of construction I broke 2 of them. I'm now working on the stern the quarter galleries and just finished installing the window frames #'s 510, 511, 512. I glazed all of the window frames before I  glued them on  and they all look fine. If I didn't know the glazing was missing on 2 windows I wouldn't know. Also as an added plus the window frames act as sort of a guard as the as the glazing is behind the frames.

Hope this helps. Keep up the great work.

Any questions, don't hesitate,

Mort

[Mike Dowling]

I don't know if this is of any help but, for gluing fiddly bits like tiles and windows I use Microscale Micro Kristal Klear. Whilst I think folk use it for making windows I have not had much success but, for sticking acetate sheet to window frames and small metal pieces on various parts it is brilliant. It dries clear but glossy but unlike CA it stays flexible for long enough to allow 'fiddling' and adjustment.

It is obtainable through Amazon. Might be worth a go with your tiles and it is easy to clean up with just water.

 

[allanyed]

From what I can see in the photos you have the tiles such that the holes are pushed in as if nailed to the hull which is as it should be.  It is a very very nice change to see this done correctly rather than have bumps stick out as if they were bolted to the hull.   Well done.

Allan