Duchess of Kingston 1778 by desalgu - Vanguard Models - 1:64 - Royal Yacht

[desalgu]

19 hours ago, glbarlow said:

I’m glad professor gene is helpful, I don’t think I know him though. 😂🤣

 

 

I was hoping you and Derek would get a laugh out of that, but I've sure used your build logs a lot and appreciate all the helpful suggestions.  Your write ups and photos are very well done and excellent for teaching various methods.

 

The manual says to use 0.25mm natural thread to rig the wheel to the tiller, but looking at it, I couldn't see how it would feed through the tiny blocks.  I usually rub a little CA into the end of a thread to make it easier to feed through a hole, so I did that, and then measured diameter.  I got numbers that averaged to around 0.4mm, not 0.25mm.  So the thread not only looked a little larger, it was a little larger.  I thought about using the 0.10mm thread, but I think the 0.25 will look much better.

 

I have been cleaning out the holes in the blocks with a #79 drill which is about 0.36mm if I did the conversion right.  I tried putting the 0.25mm thread through this hole and there was no way it was going to fit.  So based on my measurements, I decided to try a #76 drill bit, which is little over 0.5mm diameter.  I was a little surprised I was able to drill out the hole without the block crumbling, but the pear wood block held up fine.  After that I was able to feed the 0.25mm thread through the hole, so now I know what to do.  

 

I also assembled the ships wheel and have it temporarily sitting on the deck.  I'll get to use my new flush cutter to trim off excess brass rod.

 

 

[glbarlow]

I did, only it’s Glenn, not Gene😁

 

btw drilling out blocks is a common requirement, as long as you don’t go to big. 

Edited January 15, 2022 by glbarlow

[desalgu]

Apologize Professor Glenn!!  I'm such a hoser as they'd say up north 😀

 

I got concerned about drilling out the blocks because they are so small.  I've crumbled some in the past doing it.   I've never worked with blocks of this quality and was pleasantly surprised.  

[DelF]

13 hours ago, desalgu said:

 I'll get to use my new flush cutter to trim off excess brass rod.

That wheel's come up really well. At the risk of trying to teach Granny to suck eggs, be careful not to cut the brass rod too flush to the uprights otherwise you won't be able to smooth off the pinched ends. I cut mine about 1mm from the uprights and used a fine file to tidy up the ends:

Derek

Edited January 16, 2022 by DelF
Typo

[desalgu]

It's too late Derek, I flunked the class! 😅  If I'd used my old wire cutters, which are old and well used, I know I would have done exactly what you suggested.  But since I had a new toy, I did a test cut and it looked great, so I went for it.  It also looked great until I took photo and enlarged.  Still not bad though.  

[desalgu]

After seeing how @DelF upgraded the front of the rudder tiller housing, I did something similar.  It's a fairly minor upgrade, but I think it looks a lot better.  I sat the roof on top to see what it would look like, it's not glued yet.  I'm about ready to rig the tiller and wheel, and then I can glue it on.

 

I also added 4 cleats to the aft deck, and two are shown in photo.  One cleat managed to pop off my tweezers while trying to install and went flying.  It must have landed on the floor, so it's pretty hopeless to find it.  I have carpet squares in the basement, and the pattern hides everything brown or grey colored.  I've been on the floor before looking for pieces like this, and it's a great mystery how these little parts manage to disappear.  I used another one from the laser cut sheet, so hoping extras were provided.

 

[desalgu]

I rigged the tiller and wheel in a similar manner to @DelF, threading everything in Quadhands first.  

[desalgu]

Then did a test fit on the boat to make sure it all fit like it was supposed to. 

[desalgu]

It looked good, so glued the wheel, eyebolts, and tiller.  Tightened up the rigging and added the tiller housing roof.  Only problem I had was I didn't get the front of the wheel into the slot in the deck tight enough.  I thought I did, but later on after CA was well set, I realized it wasn't pushed all the way in.  It's up ever so slightly and you don't noticed except in closeup photos.  I'll have to live with it.

 

 

[desalgu]

There's a railing around the staircase with a lot of decorations done in PE.  One side is flat, which doesn't look as good as it could. I saw that @DelF had modified it by making his own end posts.  I wanted to do something along those lines, but don't have the tools, so it had to be something I could do by hand.  I decided to glue a thin strip of wood on the back of the 4 end posts and carve to match the PE shape on the front side.  

 

I've done one post and am happy with how it looks.  The left side of photo shows the thin strip of wood I glued on, and the right side shows it carved and with a coat of primer on it.  

 

Kind of wish there were front side and back side PE parts that you could glue together to give it 3D detail.  The detail on the 3D parts is amazing, but when they are out in the open on the deck, the flat side shows.

 

 

[WalrusGuy]

10 minutes ago, desalgu said:

It looked good, so glued the wheel, eyebolts, and tiller.  Tightened up the rigging and added the tiller housing roof.  Only problem I had was I didn't get the front of the wheel into the slot in the deck tight enough.  I thought I did, but later on after CA was well set, I realized it wasn't pushed all the way in.  It's up ever so slightly and you don't noticed except in closeup photos.  I'll have to live with it.

 

 

Great photos! I love the contrast between the different woods. 

[DelF]

8 hours ago, desalgu said:

I've done one post and am happy with how it looks.

That'll look great when it's gilded - you've matched the etched side perfectly.

The aft deck is looking very neat and shipshape.

 

Derek

 

[BobG]

18 hours ago, desalgu said:

 

Kind of wish there were front side and back side PE parts that you could glue together to give it 3D detail.  The detail on the 3D parts is amazing, but when they are out in the open on the deck, the flat side shows.

 

PE parts are very convenient and precise but the "flatness" of them does not look right to me in many instances. For example, I'm not fond of how PE hooks and eyebolts look when they are just two dimensional and flat. I prefer how they look when they are made from wire. The way you modified the endpoints on the railing is a great improvement.

[desalgu]

On 1/20/2022 at 3:00 AM, DelF said:

That'll look great when it's gilded - you've matched the etched side perfectly.

The aft deck is looking very neat and shipshape.

 

 

Thanks Derek!  I was happy with the first end post, but didn't do as well on the other posts.  I've always had problems with repetitious tasks, I think because I start doing them a little faster without realizing it.  I know that, so was trying to tell myself to go slow.  The other posts will be ok, but not as good as the first.  I'm about to finish up the railing, and I've been working on the some of the other deck fixtures.

[desalgu]

On 1/20/2022 at 1:03 PM, BobG said:

 

PE parts are very convenient and precise but the "flatness" of them does not look right to me in many instances. For example, I'm not fond of how PE hooks and eyebolts look when they are just two dimensional and flat. I prefer how they look when they are made from wire. The way you modified the endpoints on the railing is a great improvement.

Thanks Bob!  I've had similar thoughts about the the hooks, eyebolts, and belay pins.  I noticed 2 differences on eyebolts & hooks:  the flat side of the PE parts, and the "wire" or iron on PE part was larger diameter.  I only noticed the flatness if I took closeup photo or looked at them about an inch away.  From any normal viewing distance, the PE parts look fine, so decided I'd use them.  Since it's my first time with PE parts, it's also a chance to see how it goes.  I seriously thought about replacing the belay pins, but decided to also stick with the kit parts.  I think when ropes are tied around them, they'll look fine.  It's a bit of an experiment.

[BobG]

Good points, David. I wasn't considering how small the scale is and how the PE parts would look from a normal viewing distance. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by BobG

[DelF]

Completely agree about the PE parts, especially the belaying pins which are far better than the out-of-scale Christmas tree bulbs that masquerade as pins in most kits. None of the hooks and eyebolts look flat when viewed normally on the model. The only ones I changed on Speedy were the ringbolts on the gun carriages - not because they looked flat but just because they looked a little large to my eye. They were easy to replace with home made versions.

[desalgu]

Really appreciate all the likes and comments!

 

I'm probably thinking too much on this build, but I'll throw this out to see what you all think.  What about adding a ship's boat to the deck?  The Duchess is bound to have had one, and there appears to be room between the fore and main masts if it was mounted above the deck a little bit.  I know Vanguard has a variety of kits for ship's boats.

 

[Gregory]

Would be a nice touch..

It  is shown for Royal Caroline in the AOTS book.

 

[desalgu]

I've been working on deck fixtures, starting on upper aft deck as per manual.  Here's pictures showing the binnacle cabinet, the mizzen mast belay racks, eyebolts, and mast collar.  I had no trouble making these pieces.  Photos in the manual are excellent and pieces fit together easily.  It's a slow process only because it takes time to sand off laser char and because I'm staining parts.   I was a little surprised at how crowded it is around the mizzen mast.

 

The staircase railing is a test fit and hasn't been glued yet.  I had a little trouble fitting it because of my modification making the inside dimension of the posts a little larger.  I had to trim out a little more than I thought where the railing pieces fit together.  In the process, I rubbed off some of the gold paint, so need to do another coat before gluing staircase in.

[desalgu]

I also finished bitts around main mast and glued eyebolts and the shorter bitts with belay pins to the deck.  Before going further, I started thinking about remaining deck fixtures and cannons.  As recommended by many others, it's easier to rig cannons away from the deck and then install them, even if rigging is just a breech rope.  I decided I'd better do cannons next, and then finish up remaining deck fixtures.   

[desalgu]

I've been having a hard time visualizing the scale, so made a simple cardboard cutout of a sailor and put him on deck by the wheel.  Everything looks sized correctly with a "sailor" standing there.

 

 

I removed parts for one of the 4-lb cannons, and I'll echo what others have said.  Wow, are they small!

[glbarlow]

On 1/20/2022 at 1:03 PM, BobG said:

how they look when they are made from wire.

Let’s see yours on your Flirt build😊 I replaced all hooks and belaying pins on mine. 

[BobG]

2 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

Let’s see yours on your Flirt build😊 I replaced all hooks and belaying pins on mine. 

 

I could show you a photo of the box but that's about it so far! 😂

[desalgu]

I've been working on the little cannons, and I feel fortunate there are only 6 on the Duchess.  I've had no problems assembling the gun carriages other than they are small.  I made a very simple jig to make it easier to glue the first 4 pieces together.

 

 

 

Once these pieces are glued together, it's easy to add the remaining carriage parts.  I used 400 grit sand paper to round off the axles for the wheels.

 

 

Gun barrel is makes it look like a small cannon.  The two black strips are the trunnion caps which are PE parts.

 

 

I glued the back side of the trunnion cap to the carriage, and used a small punch tool or awl to hold down the cap just before it goes over the trunnion.  This bends the forward end of the cap upward.  After the CA glue set, I used the same small tool to bend the cap over the trunnion and flatten it on the carriage.  A touch of CA and it's done.

 

 

Every time I see a closeup, I see places to touch up.  I can't see them with my own eyes.  These cannons are small as every has mentioned.  After touching up I've been putting a coat of clear flat acrylic on the carriage to hide excess CA glue.

 

 

 

[desalgu]

Because of the small size and what I read in other build logs, I decided to just add a breech rope for rigging.  For this I needed an eyebolt and ring on the carriage in front of the eyebolt provided in the kit.  I had some very small wire eyebolts and rings left over from previous build, so decided to use them. 

 

They were brass wire, so I tried brass blackener using a procedure similar to what Derrick @DelF used.  Instead of jeweler's pickling solution (citrus acid) for cleaning, I used some descaler powder which is also citrus acid.  I tried acetone for the final clean, but found out it started dissolving the plastic container!  So I started over with a small glass jar, and switched to isopropyl alcohol.   I was doing very tiny parts, and I believe I didn't keep them separated by stirring enough while blackening.  Some blackened fine and others not so good.  I did it a couple of times.  The rings blackened pretty good and that's what will show, so it was good enough.  I think it just takes a little practice.

 

Based on some photos online of cannon rigging, I put the eyebolts and rings just behind the front wheels.  The eyebolt on this one was one that didn't blacken, but was easily touched up with black paint.

 

[desalgu]

Then I realized I needed a way to determine the length of the breech rope, plus I was going to need more rings for the eyebolts attached to the bulwarks.  I had some black wire (jewelry supply) that I think was 28 gauge.  It looked the right size, so I made some wire rings, again following Professor Derek's  @DelF excellent description.  This turned out to be easy and before long I had a lot of eyebolts with rings.  I like these rings better than the PE rings provided in the kit, plus I was going to need more of them anyway.  The wire I used is pretty easy to bend, so these rings are not strong, but once installed there won't be any load on them.

 

 

I guess I could have determined the length of the breech rope using the Duchess, but it was easy enough to make a simulated gun port.  Here's a gun carriage and breech rope sitting on my simulated deck and bulwarks.   I took the photo after I removed the eyebolts from the simulated bulwarks.

 

 

I really only used this to get a length for the breech rope, and it was still a bit of a guess.  This is the first gun, and I haven't tried installing it on the Duchess to verify the fit.  I'll do that tomorrow.

 

I seized the breech rope around the rings offline using Quadhands as an aid for holding things, and small clothespins for weight on thread when I needed it.  This sure makes it easier to do, but I can tell it takes practice, and I'll probably figure out a better way as I do more of them.  As I was seizing the line, I put a little thinned PVA glue on ropes to keep everything in place.

 

 

Only 5 more to go, plus making sure they look ok on the Duchess.  Since I haven't confirmed that yet, I may have to redo .

 

[DelF]

Good work on the cannon David. A couple of points:

 

5 hours ago, desalgu said:

I was doing very tiny parts, and I believe I didn't keep them separated by stirring enough while blackening.  Some blackened fine and others not so good.

I found the same problem. For me, the answer was to put the parts in a small leakproof container with the blackening solution and shake them for a minute. That way I was able to treat 100+ components in a single batch.

 

4 hours ago, desalgu said:

I really only used this to get a length for the breech rope, and it was still a bit of a guess.

Breech ropes were generally 3X the length of the barrel (Lavery; The Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War, 1600-1815) to allow sufficient slack for just the right amount of recoil. I take that not to include the seizings, so for example with a 30mm barrel I would allow about 96mm to include short seizings at either end. If you make the rope too short it won't look right on the model - you should aim for it to drape down on the deck when the gun is run out, like this on the real Victory and my Speedy:

Sometimes breech ropes were frapped up out of the way, but they still had to have the same amount of slack. 

 

You're getting well ahead of me! I've been spending time on one of my other hobbies, astronomy, so I'll need to get back to the workshop to catch up😁

 

Derek

 

 

[glbarlow]

12 hours ago, desalgu said:

the breech rope,

If you aren’t too far with it I’d recommend a smaller diameter rope (see Derek’s photo), yours looks too heavy for the tiny gun. 

[desalgu]

Thank you Professor's Derek and Glenn for suggestions!

 

I saw the same picture of Victory's cannons along with some others.  The 3x length of barrel is an excellent rule of thumb.  I test fitted the one gun, and the rope length I used works ok.  But I agree with Glenn that a smaller diameter would look better.  The kit has 0.75mm and 0.50mm threads and I opted for the larger size.  But now that I see it, I think the smaller one would look better and look more like pictures I've seen.  

 

I've only made breech rope for one cannon,  so it's not too late to change.  I think I'll do another with 0.50mm and use the 3x barrel length to see what it looks like.  I'm guessing it will look a little better. 

 

The gun port eyebolt locations on the bulwarks look too high to me for the breech rope.  They look like where the tackle would be hooked.  I'm thinking I should add a 2nd eyebolt below it for the breech rope like on Derek's (@DelF) Speedy.  The upper eyebolt would be left unused, but I think that's ok.  Derek's rigging of cannon's on Speedy is amazing when you realize how small everything is.