Spare Yards

[ah100m]

I'm finishing up my USS Constitution and I want to show spare yards stored on the forechannels.  A while ago I asked if the necessary blocks would be attached to the yard in anticipation of its being needed and the general consensus was "no".  Well, how about footropes?  How about the mounting hardware for the studdingsail booms?  Neither of these items would seem to be quick to mount to the yard if the yard was needed. 

 

What do you think?

[mtaylor]

I would think not on anything being attached to the yards in stowage.   For one thing, they used the yards as needed and would cut them down if needed.  

[Jack12477]

FWIW these are photos I took aboard the USS Constellation in Baltimore's Inner Harbor.  Don't  know if this is prototypical but these yards were stored on main deck.

 

[mtaylor]

They'd be stored there, Jack as there was no large opening as on most ships prior to her being built.   Getting them in and out of the hatches would have been a problem if not impossible.

[ah100m]

Looks like only the eyebolts for the jackstays are mounted.  Moot point, actually, as jackstays weren't used in 1812 (the time I'm portraying).  And the large yards were stored on the channels.  I think the shorter yards would come up through the main hatch.  (Not really a hatch, but the big opening in the spar deck amidships).  

[allanyed]

A good day as I learned something new in that I never knew yards were stored on the channels and I would like to learn more about this.    AH, can you share any contemporary information about this stowage on the channels, how they were secured, etc.  I am having a hard time picturing this as the lower yards on the USS Constitution were nearly triple the length of the channels.    I did some searching on my own but could not find anything contemporary.  I did find a very nice, well detailed, set of free plans at https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/discover-learn/modeler-resources/   The ship's boats drawings are especially well done.  

 

Jackstays were introduced in the Royal Navy in 1811 so if the US was copying the idea, makes sense that they probably had not knocked off the idea by 1812.   Do you know when jackstays came into use in the US?  

 

TIA

 

Allan

 

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by allanyed

[Beef Wellington]

The Constellation storage arrangement does not seem to make sense.  With spars stored as they are, this would severely impact the ability to mount any armament in these areas so just doesn't seem to pass the practicality test.  I'd also be very interested in seeing primary source suggesting how spars could be mounted on the channels, intuitively this seems rather cumbersome approach for anything but the smallest.  I have nothing specific to point to, but would a more practical solution be to store larger yards amidships in the waist area amongst and of the ships boats? 

[Lieste]

According to Boudriot, the spars and yards for the 74 were loaded 'unfinished', just the main (built-up) stick, but not finished with head, gammoning, foot etc that make the finished spar. The fitting of blocks etc is an additional step beyond that.

[Roger Pellett]

The photo posted above is of the Constellation as she currently appears in Baltimore Harbor.   This is the c1859 Sloop of War Constellation.  She was spar decked.  Her guns were carried below on a gun deck with the lighter unarmed spar deck overhead.

 

Roger

[mtaylor]

2 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

The photo posted above is of the Constellation as she currently appears in Baltimore Harbor.   This is the c1859 Sloop of War Constellation.  She was spar decked.  Her guns were carried below on a gun deck with the lighter unarmed spar deck overhead.

 

Roger

There were two Parrot Rifles on top as launched in 1859, but they soon disappeared after the first cruise. One at the bow and one at the stern.  The Marines did have some smaller guns that could be mounted on deck if needed.  

 

Due to the way the Constellation folks way back in the early 1900's played, many of the original frigate drawings "disappeared" or were changed.  As for the restoration of the 1859 Constellation, as I understand it, they ran out of money so didn't finish putting the guns on their fore and aft positions.

[popeye2sea]

14 hours ago, allanyed said:

  I am having a hard time picturing this as the lower yards on the USS Constitution were nearly triple the length of the channels.    I did some searching on my own but could not find anything contemporary. 

 

I am not at all certain that spares were carried for the course yards. If one of those were carried away your ship was in deep sh t.

Spares for the topgallant and royals could be carried lashed vertically to either the topmast or lower shrouds.

 

Regards,

[flying_dutchman2]

I know I am a bit late on this subject but the Dutch placed their spare masts and yards on the channels. This was without any ring bolts, blocks or rope. I plan to do this with my fluit I am building. 

 

Marcus 

[Ian_Grant]

I agree with Popeye that upper yards were stowed in the rigging, in fact I made up the royal yards missing in the Heller Victory kit and stowed them inside the topmast shrouds. This is in accordance with "Seamanship in the Age of Sail" by Harland.

[allanyed]

Great information Ian!  Does Harland give a contemporary source for this information?   

Thanks for sharing!

Allan

[ah100m]

To me the spar in the photo looks like a spare upper mast - topgallant or royal, not a yard.

[Morgan]

That a lower studding sail boom, not a spare yard.

 

Gary

[Ian_Grant]

6 hours ago, allanyed said:

Great information Ian!  Does Harland give a contemporary source for this information?   

Thanks for sharing!

Allan

I may have misled - Harland is speaking of stowing spars in the rigging when topgallant (and) topmasts are sent down; not stowage of spare spars per se. He does mention that topgallant masts are sent down a backstay and stored on the booms.

 

His bibliography is rather extensive, including a couple of 18th century sources . but most are 19th or 20th century like our familiar Lees et. al.

[popeye2sea]

4 hours ago, Morgan said:

That a lower studding sail boom, not a spare yard.

 

Gary

That is correct. The lower stu'ns'l boom has a gooseneck hook in the forward end which sets into and pivots in an eyebolt on the fore end of the channel. The boom is swung out and guyed in position to spread the foot of the fore course stu'ns'l.

 

Regards,

[Force9]

Folks -

 

Very late to this thread, but here is some add'l info...

 

Olof Eriksen notes in his Constitution All Sails Up and Flying that Captain Stewart jettisoned his spare spars in April 1814 while outrunning two British frigates into Marblehead harbor.  Apparently there is a pursers log that notes the specific items/storage to account for the loss:

 

 On starboard side of main hatch:

(1) main topgallant mast

(1) main topgallant yard

(1) main royal yard

(1) mizzen topgallant yard

(1) jib boom

 

On Port side of main hatch

(1) fore topgallant mast

(1) fore topgallant yard

(1) fore royal yard

(1) spanker boom

(1) fore topsail yard

 

In the Guerriere after battle report it is noted that the spare main topsail yard stored on the starboard chains/channels was destroyed.

 

There are stun's'l booms mounted on the fore channels that swing out as Popeye noted, but none on the main channels.  The main and mizzen channels likely had storage irons extending out that the spare topsail yards rested on with some lashings.

 

Here is a link to a deeper discussion around this within my build log:

 

 

Hope this helps

 

Cheers

Evan

 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Force9

[dafi]

As already claimed, the spars were usually placed amidships. in the old days over the waist from fo´castle to quarterdeck, later on the gallows or simply on deck. Later when the waist was covered up, the spare spars stayed there in between the boats. Usually only roughly finished, as nobody knew before what was going to break and like this they could be more easily adopted.

 

The system was the same, here some trials on the Vic.

 

 

 

The log of the Victory indicates on 15-19.04.1778: Spare topmasts and spars shipped in

 

Also NMM shows severals plans where the spare spars are shown.

HMS Vanguard 1835 http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/80305.html

 

And the closest for the project mentioned first is the UNITED STATES with the plans for spars and boats.

 

 

See the stunsail booms on the fore channels, 3 more boats were hung on the wdavits.

 

XXXDAn

Edited October 31, 2021 by dafi