TEV Wahine 1965 by Richard Dunn - scale 1:35 - RADIO

[Richard Dunn]

I would assume the tension is fine, only because I have only spent about 10 hours printing and it's a brand new machine, it's pretty tight .

I am pretty sure if I tilted them and used a raft and supports it would come out fine but then the print takes 5 times longer at least to do, due to extra height and I lose all advantage to CNC

Those windows on the plate only take 12 mins to print, If I used supports, 2-3 hours.

The printer is still going to be used, worst case I would use it to make master models and then resin cast from it, resin casting is a GREAT option, resin casting its hard and more workable in my opinion.
Cowl vents ,anchors are examples of what it would do well but the print time is counter productive if a bollard takes 4 hours to print in resin, I could make a master in that time manually and casting it takes only 2-3 hours to harden.
I have to be honest, the reason I got a printer was due to the 1/200 Titanic addon kit by KA for the trumpeter kit, it is amazing and thought I could get that level of detail in my prints, there must be commercial versions of these printers that do higher res than us "normal" people.

http://ka-models.co.kr/?product=1200-rms-titanic-dx-pack-for-trumpeter&ckattempt=1
I do have a filament printer as well and have never been happy with its results due to the layer effect and its not capable of the detail my resin printer is.
That's MY printer  which was cheap one, but It's put me off using it now.
Re photos, that's fine

Edited May 15, 2022 by Richard Dunn

[GrandpaPhil]

This model is incredible!
 

What about double layered card, sealed?

 

I’ve had a lot of success making mass small detail parts from it.  
 

I’ll be making the window frames from card, for another model later this year.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by GrandpaPhil

[Kevin-the-lubber]

I’ve never done any casting, it’s another method that I must try sooner or later. PE still knocks spots off resin in terms of super thin parts, but I didn’t see anything in the Titanic resin add-ons that isn’t do-able on our home printers. However, as we’d all testify, there can be a lot of pain between do-able and done. For sure there are industrial grade resin printers out there like the big Formlabs, at a cost of £15k - £20k, but I suspect the difference is probably as much about the choice of resin and design work as the printer itself. However I can’t bring myself to spend £100 per litre and then some. I’d love to see a professional resin kit like those parts up close, see how they orientate and support. My impression is that their supports are beefier. You’re right that printing can be pretty slow. Even if I had all the parts done perfectly for the Cutty sark I expect it would take two or three weeks just to print them.

[Richard Dunn]

23 hours ago, GrandpaPhil said:

What about double layered card, sealed?

Can you show me some?

[GrandpaPhil]

On 5/15/2020 at 1:10 PM, GrandpaPhil said:

Side one:

It’s the same thing I did here.  

That’s a binnacle at 1:98 scale.  
 

I used layered card for the impression of detail.

[Richard Dunn]

Nice, but what I meant was can you show me the product, what it looks like as we may have it over here under another name.
or are you saying you are using card and laminating to the thickness you need.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Richard Dunn

[GrandpaPhil]

I’m just using card.  

For your windows, I would do them in two pieces from cardstock.  One outer frame and then make an inner frame to get the same effect as 3d printing them.

Edited May 17, 2022 by GrandpaPhil

[Richard Dunn]

Yeah I did a test on cnc and it does not cut very cleanly, lots of fluff and tearing.

I have in the past considered card models and it was once I got a job boat building and realised a technique call diagonal planking that 3d compound shapes could be done with cardboard.

[Richard Dunn]

I am very very surprised this is not used more, all it requires is fames to be setup with planking reduction AND ribband reductions, and a lot of ribbands put on, maybe 20 per side on an average ship and then lots of strips glued on at 45 degrees and then the other way, 3 layers is usually bloody strong and with glass or resin impregnation very thin strong shell can be built.

I might in fact do it on my next model if it's small.............well small compared to  this one.
I have seen it used a lot on hard Chine hulls but less on displacement hulls in the model world and its better suited to Displacement hull as you don't have the chine seam.
This is the normal technique for building plugs for GRP hulls btw in full size.
 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Richard Dunn

[GrandpaPhil]

Very nice technique!  I’m going to have to try the 45 degree planking trick!

 

I cut everything out with a scalpel.

[Richard Dunn]

No way I could cut these windows all the same with scalpel.... I need glasses as it is.
That technique above is also known as cold moulding.

[mtaylor]

Richard, you won't see many models planked like you showed as historically, they weren't planked that way.  Now for something where the hull is completely painted (say an iron/steel ship) it would probably work.

[Richard Dunn]

Of course, I was referring to steel or fibreglass hulls.
A lot of the wooden PT boats were done that way to.

In saying that the process effectively builds you a plywood hull in 3d compound shapes and you could do a planked ship this way if you made the last layer traditional over the top, so may kits do sublayers of planking and it is seldom fair or even pleasing to the eye but merely a substrate for the top layer, at least this gives you fair shapes by its very nature of using sprung planks.
the boat in the image above has bad frames to start with ,you can see a bad hump in its port bow.
If you wanted to build wooden ship model with cardboard this is how I would do it.
Also its very very fast and if you had a micro nailing gun that could shoot tiny staples or brads you could knock that over it 2-3 days.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Richard Dunn

[Kevin-the-lubber]

I think GranpaPhil might have been referring to styrene sheet e.g evergreen. I don’t know how easy it is to mill, given the relatively low melting point. If I had your machine I’d have been tempted to get a sheet of 3mm aluminium.

 

The hull wrapping is an interesting technique. There’s a lady on here, Doris, that builds the most extraordinary card (paper) models, I must have a look at her technique one day. Card modelling seems popular in Eastern Europe, at least I often see card plans from there on eBay, but that looks like a level of skill that I don’t even aspire to.

[Richard Dunn]

I have been cutting .13mm styrene from evergreen all day at 17000 rpm with a 5mm per second feed speed, with no trouble at all, just have to stand there with compressed air blower to keep it clear and cool, will film it later.
1mm 2 flute cutter to.
I showed it back a bit anyway, all those windows

Edited May 18, 2022 by Richard Dunn

[Dr PR]

For what it is worth, a wooden minesweeper I served on had an inner layer of diagonal planking with an outer layer of traditional longitudinal planking. It produced a strong hull without any (magnetic) metal parts.

[Valeriy V]

On 5/18/2022 at 2:08 AM, Richard Dunn said:

I am very very surprised this is not used more, all it requires is fames to be setup with planking reduction .......

 

Hi, Richard!
I enjoy watching your process. And of course, like many colleagues, I am very impressed by the size of your work.

 

If you are interested, I will add a little information about the construction of the hull of the model with diagonal skin.

[Valeriy V]

The strips of diagonal planking are cut from 0.8mm thick maple veneer. The gaps between the diagonal stripes are not of great importance, since the case is subsequently covered with fiberglass with resin.

[Tony Hunt]

Diagonal planking (cold moulded) does make a really strong, light hull.  My late father built some very large sailing models of iron-hulled square-riggers using the technique.  The model in the picture below, the County of Inverness, is about three metres long and is double diagonal planked in NZ Kauri, over frames and longitudinal stringers.

 

 

[Veszett Roka]

I'm always amazed by these huge scale models. As a remark, i started my sailing career in a 2-man dinghy which was 5 meters long (pirate class). Then moved to 470, which is 4.7 meters and that still an olympic class. So.. wow.

[Richard Dunn]

That's awesome Valeriy.
It sounds like it's more common in modelling than I thought.

I really think it's a way to go with card.
I have tried to find that issue of Model Shipright, I never twigged it was your fathers model on same scale as mine.

[Richard Dunn]

3 hours ago, Veszett Roka said:

As a remark, i started my sailing career in a 2-man dinghy which was 5 meters long (pirate class)

Just to bring these topics together I restored an R class racing dinghy back in the 80's that was a 2 man dingy, trapeze and all that fun stuff, and it was diagonal planked in kauri also, now days they are more like skiffs and no wood anywhere.

[Ian_Grant]

6 hours ago, Tony Hunt said:

Diagonal planking (cold moulded) does make a really strong, light hull.  My late father built some very large sailing models of iron-hulled square-riggers using the technique.  The model in the picture below, the County of Inverness, is about three metres long and is double diagonal planked in NZ Kauri, over frames and longitudinal stringers.

 

 

Over 3m long........gorgeous.........now we're talking. I drool over such large RC models in "Introduction to RC Scale Sailing Models" by Vaughn Williams.

[Veszett Roka]

2 hours ago, Richard Dunn said:

Just to bring these topics together I restored an R class racing dinghy back in the 80's that was a 2 man dingy, trapeze and all that fun stuff, and it was diagonal planked in kauri also, now days they are more like skiffs and no wood anywhere.

International Contenders were often built this way - i had opportunity to sail and breach one

[Roger Pellett]

Many many years ago my father and I built a wooden Thistle class sailboat from a kit.  The Thistle is an overgrown International 14 racing dinghy.  The Thistle is 17 ft long.  The hull was built from diagonally planked layers of very thin mahogany; the same construction that Veszett shows above. The hull Shell was made in a factory, cured in an autoclave and our job was to build the internals.  I think that this type of construction benefited from the waterproof glues developed during WW 2.  Fiberglass c mid 1960’s made it obsolete.

 

Before WW 2 diagonal planking was used for boats such as rescue craft that were kept out of the water as when launched there was no time for the planking to swell up.  The famous Royal Navy steam pinnaces were often diagonal planked.  A layer of fabric was often glued between the planking layers to form a water barrier.

 

Roger

 

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Roger Pellett

[Richard Dunn]

That's great, then you can all appreciate how well suited this is to cardboard modelling complex hull forms.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Richard Dunn

[Kuparu]

According to GF Campbell, the Aberdeen-built clipper Vision was built in 1854 of three layers of plank with the inner two layers diagonal in 2 inch larch.  New Zealanders and visitors will be aware of the preserved ship Edwin Fox, which I believe was built of mahogany with inner planking diagonal.  During WW2 many smaller warships were built using diagonal planking, including Fairmiles and HDML's.  In the later case, planks were secured using galvanised steel bolts and there were layers of varnished muslin between the skins.

[Kuparu]

On 4/28/2022 at 12:34 PM, Richard Dunn said:

So after some research and advice from pump people I have arrived at this arrangement, I have 2 trim ballast tanks in the bow and stern of about 8 Litres each (not sure yet) but they will fill via seacock in bottom of hull of 10mm diameter and are controlled by electric ball valves.

The inlets will be using the turbo alternator intakes in real ship as they have large enough openings and also grates over them to filter water and being within double bottom are nice and low down.


The pumps are to be used to empty the tanks only, I was going to get 4 pumps and pump water in but hey what's the point, a 10mm hose will fill 4 litres in a short enough period and with the seacock being 150mm underwater at start it will have enough pressure to fill quickly, even with no pressure really.

The pumps are pressure controlled so when the discharge seacock is opened it will activate the pump and pump out the tank.
So basically each tanks has 2 electric valves and one pump in its arrangement.

This is the valve at the shell.
https://www.baccarastore.com.au/1/2-1-BSP-UPVC-Electric-Actuated-Ball-Valve-2-Wires-with-MO-and-Visual-Indicator

And this is the pump.

http://www.seaflo.com/en-us/product/detail/601.html

 

Any  thoughts or warnings?

Hi Richard, Please confirm that your ballast tanks are/will be well baffled internally lest the free surface capsize your magnificent work. Regards Kuparu

[Richard Dunn]

1 hour ago, Kuparu said:

Hi Richard, Please confirm that your ballast tanks are/will be well baffled internally lest the free surface capsize your magnificent work. Regards Kuparu

I can confirm I am aware of its need but not worked out how yet, was going to get some advice on that actually

[Kuparu]

I recommend some "expert" advice as I know water ballast has a few pitfalls.  The only guidance I could give on ballast tanks is based on a failure which led to  a significant amount of concrete slurry going into the tank for solid ballast.  Looking on-line makes me think that the style and number of baffles used in aircraft internal wing fuel tanks might provide an example but I know there are some mathematics involved for ships. Regards, Kuparu.