HMS Sphinx 1775 by Glenn-UK - FINISHED - Vanguard Models - 1:64 - V2 Kit by Glenn Shelton

[mtaylor]

I think the second go is much better.   I am surprised though, that you're doing one side first and then the other side.  Seems that this might cause some unwanted "tilt" in the mast.  

[Glenn-UK]

6 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

I think the second go is much better.   I am surprised though, that you're doing one side first and then the other side.  Seems that this might cause some unwanted "tilt" in the mast.  

I am working on each shroud pair. Pair 1/2 port side has now been installed. Pair 3/4 is currently WIP on starboard side, 3 has been rigged and 4 will be done when I next visit the shipyard. The mast was glued in place prior to starting work on the shrouds.

[mtaylor]

12 minutes ago, glennard2523 said:

I am working on each shroud pair. Pair 1/2 port side has now been installed. Pair 3/4 is currently WIP on starboard side, 3 has been rigged and 4 will be done when I next visit the shipyard. The mast was glued in place prior to starting work on the shrouds.

Thanks for clarifying that.  I guess I got a bit confused somewhere.

[Glenn-UK]

13 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

Thanks for clarifying that.  I guess I got a bit confused somewhere.

I did install all the shrouds on my first attempt and then added all the port side deadeyes and lanyards which I've done on all my previous builds. On take 2 I decided it would be better to rig each shroud pair in turn as it may help seat the shrouds better at the foremast platform.

[mtaylor]

Ah... got it.  I think you'll be happier doing the way you're now doing it.  Less chance of pulling the masts out of line.  

[Glenn-UK]

Adding Deadeyes to Shrouds

I thought I would detail the method I am currently using to add the deadeyes to the foremast shrouds. The process detailed below takes me around 15 minutes per shroud line to complete which is not to bad. I am now working on adding the shroud lines pair 1/2 to the starboard side, then pair 3/4 to the port side, 5/6 pair to starboard, etc.

 

Step 1 - Creating the loop

With my jig added to the channel deadeye the shroud line is wrapped around the dowel and, using some reverse action tweezers, is held in place under a bit of tension.

A length of seizing thread is then carefully fed under the shroud crossing point.

A simple half hitch knot is used to create the loop.

The tweezers are then released and the shroud carefully removed from the jig and positioned in to my quad hands where I complete the initial seizing by adding three half hitches to the top.

Step 2 - Checking the deadeye position

The deadeye is now inserted into the loop which is closed up tight by pulling the free end. It is still possible to adjust the length of the shroud so the deadeye is at the same level as the other deadeyes as the cross seizing has not, as yet, been secured with ca. Once I am happy with the initial deadeye alignment a length of thread is cut for the lanyard and the deadeye is partially rigged so I can check the alignment when the shroud has been slightly tensioned.

Step 3 - Completing the seizing

Once I'm happy with the deadeye alignment a touch as ca is used to secure the crossing seizing knots and the excess thread is also trimmed. The shroud line is then returned to the quadhands for the next phase. The shroud line ends are pulled tight and a crocodile clip is used to hold the threads in place. The shroud line is now ready for the next seizing's.

The first seizing is started and I check it's position with a template seizing jig.

Each seizing comprises 5 bottom and 5 top half hitch knots. It does not take very long to complete this aspect.

With the work almost complete it is time to recheck the alignment of the shroud with a partially rigged lanyard.

The excess shroud thread is then trimmed and the job is now complete.

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by glennard2523

[Dave_E]

Outstanding Glenn! 👍😀

[Glenn-UK]

For clarity the deadeyes can rotate in the loops so the holes will be properly aligned when the lanyards are rigged.

[Glenn-UK]

11 minutes ago, Dave_E said:

Outstanding Glenn! 👍😀

Thanks

[mtaylor]

The shrouds are coming along very well and looking great.

[Glenn-UK]

8 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

The shrouds are coming along very well and looking great.

Many thanks.

[Glenn-UK]

The nightmare which has become the foremast shrouds / deadeye continues as I have decided that my take 2 attempt did not pass muster.

 

The distance I have set between the channel and shroud deadeyes is approx. 20mm. I am happy with the first two dead pairs both port and starboard. As I started to tighten up the lanyards on all the shroud lines it became apparent the distance between the channel and shroud deadeyes was getting greater towards the stern. I could have lived with 1 or 2 mm difference that was not the case as there was a significant upward slope with the position of the shroud deadeyes toward the stern.

 

Time for a tea break and a rethink before I start again - third time lucky?

[Oldsalt1950]

Better to take a break and regroup, then to break something now.

[Glenn-UK]

Following on from my last post where I decided my foremast shrouds (take 2) were still not up to the required standard I had a light bulb moment when having the tea break. I recalled that @DelF used a similar jig to mine but his had two sets of pins set in a piece of wood. The top pair were used to hold the shroud deadeye and the lower pair was located in the channel deadeye.

 

It was a simple task for me to add a second set of pins to my jig. I used the same method as detailed in my post for adding deadeyes to shrouds. I added an extra step after adding the deadeye to the shroud loop where I simply inverted the jig and then adjusted the position in the shroud line so the deadeye would located on the two pins.

 

In the first two photos below the deadeye has been adjusted and is now located on the top jig two pins.

With reference to the next photo the first two shroud lines have been set, the next shroud pair are currently work in progress, the lanyards have been adjusted and I'm much happy with how the shroud deadeyes look. They are still far from perfect but they are so much better than my previous two attempts. I might dye the top two shroud seizing's with some black Indian ink

 

[Dave_E]

Nice! You essentially made the same kind of aid that others use with a piece of wire or two. However, after doing the wire jig thing myself (and struggled), I really like what you have constructed. Don’t mind if I copy your work do you? 😁

[Glenn-UK]

1 hour ago, Dave_E said:

Nice! You essentially made the same kind of aid that others use with a piece of wire or two. However, after doing the wire jig thing myself (and struggled), I really like what you have constructed. Don’t mind if I copy your work do you? 😁

Please feel to copy, its working really well.

[mtaylor]

Good save, Glenn.  

[Glenn-UK]

4 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

Good save, Glenn.  

Thank you, I spent ages debating if I start yet again. It is proving to be the right decision.

[allanyed]

Lovely build Glenn,

 

Your photos bring up a question for which I have no answer at all.   The seizings on the shrouds in the photos are untarred.  Was this the standard at that time or were the seizings tarred?  The lanyard was running, so untarred, but would the seizings be considered standing rigging and thus tarred?  Looking at several dozen contemporary models at Preble Hall and some at RMG the seizings of all tarred shrouds are tarred.  Then again there are models in both Preble and RMG where the shrouds do not look to be tarred and the seizing are the same color as these shrouds.  

Allan

[Glenn-UK]

4 minutes ago, allanyed said:

Lovely build Glenn,

 

Your photos bring up a question for which I have no answer at all.   The seizings on the shrouds in the photos are untarred.

Allan. I prefer to seize with a different coloured thread. Natural thread can be dyed black using Indian ink.

[allanyed]

I totally understand Glenn.  I was not questioning your preference but rather whether any member has any information based on contemporary sources on actual practice of the dark brown color of tarred rope on the seizings on the shrouds or other standing rigging for that matter.   Many thanks!

Allan

[Glenn-UK]

Foremast Shrouds - Complete

I have finally completed adding the foremast shrouds at the third attempt. The shroud deadeyes are still a bit uneven but overall I am happy with how they are looking. My technique has improved immeasurably compared with my previous builds but there is still room for improvement. Hopefully the main mast shrouds will look even better.

 

The seizing will look much better when they have been dyed black with Indian ink.

They look a bit better when view from afar!

Edited May 17, 2022 by glennard2523

[Dave_E]

Your work of excellence is inspiration to me for my next build! (I’m sure many others also). 👍😀
What type of adhesive do you use to finish off a seizing or winding?

Edited May 17, 2022 by Dave_E

[Glenn-UK]

Just now, Dave_E said:

Your work of excellence is inspiration to me for my next build! (I’m sure many others also). 👍😀

Many thanks Dave for your very kind words, they are much appreciated.

 

I am always striving to improve my skills so I can do these wonderful designs the justice they deserve.

 

Glenn (UK)

[allanyed]

Hi Glenn,

Based on your build I find this kit to be interesting and well thought out with some nice attention to detail.  Does the kit supply the rigging line and does it explain about the foremost shrouds being served for their entire length to protect them from chafing?

Many thanks for sharing your build with us.

Allan

[Glenn-UK]

3 minutes ago, allanyed said:

Hi Glenn,

Based on your build I find this kit to be interesting and well thought out with some nice attention to detail.  Does the kit supply the rigging line and does it explain about the foremost shrouds being served for their entire length to protect them from chafing?

Many thanks for sharing your build with us.

Allan

Hi Allan

The kit provides all the different rigging threads. As with most kits there is no reference to serving shrouds, that is an option for the more talented builders who like to enhance the builds.

[James H]

49 minutes ago, allanyed said:

....and does it explain about the foremost shrouds being served for their entire length to protect them from chafing?

 

lol! I really don't think that's the remit of any kit! I've certainly never, ever seen that from any manufacturer.

[Gregory]

Don't forget worming and parceling of the stays! 😁

[Glenn-UK]

Mainmast Shrouds - a problem solved

Through the trials and tribulations of adding the foremast shroud lines I was perplexed why I was unable to get the shroud deadeyes to looking even. I thought the methods I was employing were robust and should have resulted in a much better end result.

 

I was determined to try to make the mainmast shroud deadeyes much more even. After adding the burton pendants to the mainmast I added the first shroud pair. The loops for the deadeyes were formed without any issues and the deadeyes were added. The jig was used to set the distance between the channel and shroud deadeye to 20mm on the first line. I then repeated the process for the second line and I was very pleased with the alignments. I then added the two seizing's above the shroud deadeyes. After I double checked the position of the shroud deadeyes with the jig I was very pleased with the how everything was looking.

 

Next I added the lanyards to the first pair, initially everything looked good but after I started to apply a bit of tension I noticed the shroud deadeyes went not level. I was very perplexed considering all the checks I had made. I removed the lanyards and then rechecked the position of both shroud deadeyes with my jig. Neither deadeye would could be placed in the jig, the first deadeye was to high so would not reach the jigs locating pins and the second deadeye was to low.

 

At first I was at a loss to understand what had happened but after a couple of minutes I knew what the problem was. It was the seizing of the shroud line at the top of the mainmast. The photo below shows the seizing which looks OK.

What is happening is the shroud line can move through the seizing shown in the above photo, when tension is applied. This explains why I have ended up with one shroud deadeye being short and the other one on the shroud pair being to long. Now I know what the problem is I can take steps to prevent this happening.

[allanyed]

Glenn, serving the shrouds at the bight or for the entire length of the foremost shroud is very easy.  A simple serving machine helps but it is not so difficult to do by hand.  Syren makes a nice unit and alternatively it is not so difficult to make one with a few simple gears and scrap wood.  I would think that if no kit maker currently explains or shows these servings, one of them will see it as an opportunity to improve the product and beat the competition.  

Allan

Edited May 20, 2022 by allanyed