HMS Agamemnon by David Lester - Caldercraft - 1:64

[David Lester]

I mentioned in another post that a nearby fellow model builder asked me if I'd like to take on a partially built Agamemnon that his late father had started, but was unable to complete. I am happy to be the recipient of such a great kit. All the work that has been done on it is first rate, so it's just a matter of moving forward; nothing to be re-done. I'm really honoured that Peter Rumgay, a very skilled modeller, has entrusted me with his dad's unfinished project.

 

I going to work on this kit simultaneously with my Speedy project. I've never worked on more than one project at a time before, and so far I'm enjoying the process. The key for me was getting properly set up and slightly changing my modus operandi. In the past, (mostly through laziness) I usually had too much stuff piled on my workbench, so it looked like a hoarder's workbench, sometimes to the point of leaving only the tiniest workspace. That just wouldn't work this time, so I have cleared it completely. Fortunately I have a lot of room in my shop so I set up two separate tables, apart from my workbench, and have one table dedicated to each kit, including plans and all parts. and just move over from the table the immediate things I need at any given time and then move them back. This makes it very easy to switch projects and keep everything organized. I should have been this organized all along.

 

Here's the model as I received it.

 

 

It would appear that the first order of business for me is the second layer of planking and I've made a start.

 

 

 

I'm thankful for the other Agamemnon builders on the forum. I've been studying their build logs and I know I'll be turning to them again and again as I work through this very large undertaking.

 

David

 

[Peter Rumgay]

David, My late father started Agamemnon at age 92 and he enjoyed every minute he spent building it.I know he would be thrilled that your going to complete  the model and that it is in such capable hands. We should all be so lucky to be in the ship yard at that age . Hope you enjoy it as much as he did.

[Henke]

Welcome to the Agamemnon club David. She has has had a good start. Now it is up to you 🙂.

 

Best regards

 

Henrik

[allanyed]

David,

Your work is very neatly done!!

 

Do the red pieces in the gun ports represent the sills/cells top and bottom and the edge of the frames on the sides?   The reason I ask is that they are already painted so it would not be easy to glue the port lid stops in place on top of the lower sills and the sides of the frames. (There would be no stop on the bottom of the upper sill)

Thank you

 

Allan

[David Lester]

Hi Allan,

I'm not sure I understand your question. I think I'm reading the plans correctly, but maybe I'm missing something.

 

At the moment all of the gunport linings are flush with the first layer of planking. It appears to me, if I'm reading the plans correctly, that for the ports with lids, the second layer of planking should be cut shy of the edge of the linings by 1 mm or 3/64" on all four sides. This leaves a "recess" or a lip on all four sides that is the depth of the second planking and the width of the lining - both are about 1 mm or 3/64"

 

 

It appears to me that the lid is simply placed against the upper lip.

 

And, of course, for the ports that have no lids, the second layer of planking is made flush with the inner edges of the linings.

 

 

Do I have this right, or am I missing something.

Thanks,

David

[mort stoll]

Yes David, That's how the ports are constructed and how the lids are installed on my Victory and it worked out fine.

 

Mort

[David Lester]

I'm working away at the second planking layer. There is a lot of ground to cover with this one!

 

On my Speedy, I didn't bother to lay out belts for the planking. Its hull is quite small and it didn't seem essential to me. On this one however, because it's so large, I think it is necessary. I wanted to try using a planking fan this time and it works amazingly well. I like because it is a very elegant solution - it's simple, low tech and works so effectively. (And it's a lot less expensive than a set of proportional dividers.) I downloaded a template from the forum.

 

 

 

 

 

Here is my progress so far.

 

Thanks for looking in!

David

[David Lester]

Hello All,

Brief update today -

I have now finished the second planking on the lower hull, both sides. Next is planking from the wales up which requires cutting around the gun ports, It will be a bit slower job, but more interesting.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for looking in.

David

 

[David Lester]

Good Morning,

I have been working away at the upper planking. This is a slow process, as the planks have to be fitted between the gun ports, allowing for a small rabbet.

 

I made two plugs that fit into the ports and have an outer frame that accommodates the rabbet.

 

 

This system seems to be working pretty well. I fit the plank against the first plug. With it cut to a rough oversized length, I then take tiny amounts off until it fits snugly against the second plug.

 

 

 

 

Everything is moving along well; it's just slow going. I will need to make two more plugs for the next row of gun ports as they are a bit smaller than the lower ones. The ones at the top do not have the rabbet, so that will seem very easy.

 

Thanks for checking in.

David

[David Lester]

Hello All,

I'm taking a little break from Speedy and doing some more work on Agamemnon.

 

I've now finished the second planking on both sides and I'm currently installing the wales.

 

The second planking is filled and sanded and is pretty good shape for painting.

 

There is a main wales and an upper wales and getting them located properly is fairly important and it takes a bit of care.

 

The two wales run parallel the whole length of the ship.

 

I started by marking the water line with masking tape (I realize this will need re-marking when I do the painting and coppering, but I want it in place now to ensure that the main wales ends about where it's supposed to.

 

 

 

I then marked the position of the top of the upper wales with masking tape -

 

 

I installed the upper wales first. I then set a compass to the distance between the wales and ran it along the lower board of the upper wales to mark the top location of the main wales.

 

Before adding the main wales, I glued up a short "panel" of the same width and noted its location with respect to the waterline. It's just fraction higher than shown on the plans, but I think it's perfectly acceptable. I have a bit of filling and more sanding to do.

 

 

It's always a nightmare painting the upper edge of the wales when it's a contrasting colour from the hull and I never know the best way to tackle it. In the past I have tried painting that area of the hull first (in this case that would be the yellow) and then painting the edge of the top board black before applying it. It looks great initially, but when I paint this soon, despite my best efforts, I always seem to mess up the finish somehow (drops of glue, holes drilled in the wrong spot etc.) and much touch up is needed. Sometimes the touch up is so much that I am essentially repainting anyway and the whole advantage of having painted first is lost. So this time, I'm adding the wales before painting and we'll see how that goes.

 

It looks like I'm getting quite close to coppering time and I am of two minds on this. On the one hand I would like to use the kit supplied plates. On the other hand, I had so much trouble with them on Speedy, that I think I might be better off just using copper tape, with which I have had good success in the past. I'm still thinking about this one.

 

David

 

David

 

 

[Theodosius]

I would say you doin justice to her 🙂

[David Lester]

Time for a coppering update. I've spent the past two weeks coppering the starboard side, and here is my take on the experience.

 

I had so much trouble getting a decent job using copper plates on my Speedy, that I abandoned them and resorted to using copper tape, which I had used successfully a few times before. So I wasn't sure if wanted to use the copper plates again this time, or just go immediately to copper tape. In the end I opted to try the copper plates first, with the idea of falling back on the tape if I ran into serious trouble.

 

As it turns out, I managed to get an acceptable job using the copper plates. I think part of the reason that I had an easier time here than with Speedy is the fact that the hull is so much larger but the plates are the same size. Overall, though, I think I now have a decided preference for using the tape. It's much more forgiving and to my eye gives a very nice result. That being said, I'm pretty happy with this result too.

 

 

Since the plates can only be applied perfectly if they're in a dead flat, straight line, I wasn't sure how to accommodate the curve of the hull. It seemed I would have to leave gaps in certain places or overlap them. These Caldercraft plates don't lend themselves to overlapping very well, because there is a row of pretty big bumps right at the edges. I thought an overlap would be too pronounced, so I settled on small gaps, but how to minimize them? Just about everything I read suggested to just start laying them in rows from the bottom to the top, with no mention of belts or gores etc. However, on the other hand almost every build log I could see showed signs of partial in-fill rows being necessary.

 

So, with trepidation,  I decided to just start in, play it by ear and see what happened. When I got to the 8th row, I started to find a problem at the stern. In order to keep going, I would have to leave very big gaps to continue, as the hull curved. So I decided to let the 9th row take its natural path and do some in-filling. I did the same thing at the bow, and had to do it one more time further up at the stern. This seemed to be a good approach.

 

 

 

Because I didn't overlap the plates, I found it best to start laying them in the centre and working in two directions. This helped minimize any accumulating error in aligning each plate over the one below it. I found if I worked in one direction only, despite taking care there would be a noticeable shift in the plates and by the time I got to the other end, they would be poorly centred over the one below.

 

 

I'm sorry that I can't recall what build log I found it in (I think it was a Victory build log, but I'm not sure and apologies to that builder), but it contained two really great tips. The first was how to cut the plates. They tend to curl if cut with scissors, but if you use a Stanley utility knife blade and a hammer, you can get a beautiful cut.

 

 

I did find however, that the two pieces would tend to fly off in all directions, so I found that if I taped them to the cutting board with Scotch tape, it held them in place, and I could still see exactly where to place the blade. A really nice thing about this method is if you cut the piece a little bit too big, you can still trim a really small sliver off with no trouble at all.

 

The second great tip I found from that build log is the idea of placing a strip of copper tape along the the waterline and gluing the last row of plates over it. The cutting at the waterline is especially tricky and this really helps hide any minor imperfections.

 

One other thing that helped me get a smooth waterline turned out to be the particular masking tape I used. I know Tamiya tape is great, but for this job I used narrow Probrand Fine Line tape. It sticks incredibly well and takes the curve of the hull beautifully. It's a little thicker than Tamiya and I was able to butt my row of copper tape up against it easily and accurately. (It's the narrow orange tape between the copper and the green masking tape.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

So that's my experience with coppering using plates! I think I'll put Agamemnon aside for a little bit and return my attention to Speedy. I never thought I would like working on two models at the same time, but I'm finding I really like being able to change gears completely.

 

Thanks for looking in, likes, etc.

David

 

 

[yvesvidal]

On 2/9/2022 at 2:42 PM, David Lester said:

It looks like I'm getting quite close to coppering time and I am of two minds on this. On the one hand I would like to use the kit supplied plates. On the other hand, I had so much trouble with them on Speedy, that I think I might be better off just using copper tape, with which I have had good success in the past. I'm still thinking about this one.

 

I am having some success with the copper tape from 3M. I like it a lot better than gluing with CA (fumes...and fingers) pre-fabricated tiles. These massive vessels require a lot of tiles.

 

Yves

[allanyed]

Dave

Your wood work really is clean and looks great!

Regarding the copper sheathing, I think the tape you mentioned using in the past would look far more realistic.  Those giant pimples on the kit supplied material really detract from any model if realism is a consideration.   

Allan

 

[Peter Rumgay]

David, I hope your really pleased with your efforts because l think you have done a wonderful job.

Your efforts will result  in an outstanding model, keep up the good work.

Peter

[stuglo]

"So that's my experience with coppering using plates!"

Good work. Some observations as I've made this and the Diane with copper plates. From my reading, they were laid out in several bands which then involve lots of cutting and shaping.(Blade + sanding) . The self adhesive copper strip cut to length, was great for a smaller scale boat- not sure at this size. I found overlapping impossible. Slower acting or CA gel minimally applied and slide the plate into position. The copper will age naturally over time -I wasted time and effort preventing/accelerating and trying for uniformity. Let nature take it's course

[Benjamin sullivan]

great job I will be following , what kind of glue did you use for the second layer of hull planking?

[David Lester]

I used CA glue. It was either Gorilla Glue or Bob Smith. I have both, but I don't recall which I used in this case.

David

[David Lester]

Good Morning,

I have not been working on my Agamemnon for a while, but found some time this week, (when I was not raking leaves!)

 

I always find that at certain stages of a build, I become paralyzed and am not sure what to do next. It seems that every time I set out to do one thing, it's dependent on another being done first. I'm at one of those points with Agamemnon. It seems there are any number of ways I could go and I'm not sure what's best - add hull details, add deck details, work on the stern, work on the bow?

 

In any event, before I can work on the hull details, I need to do some more painting, so I've been doing that, but it's fairly slow going. I always find painting the top edge of the wales very hard to do. I haven't started that in the picture below, and depending on how it goes, you may or may not see a picture of it. 😄

Similarly, in order to work on the stern area, I need to have the windows ready. This is a huge job in and of itself. There are 38 of them. Each has to be fitted to a specific location and it's pretty important to keep them organized.

 

These windows are amazing, very detailed and have a good side, where the muntins are slightly recessed from the frames. They fit their locations very well, but nevertheless still need a bit of filing to seat properly. (I think that's partly due to the black paint slightly filling the rabbet where the window sits.)

 

I divided them up into pairs and worked through them a pair at a time. I filed them to fit properly and then placed each pair in a small bag, numbered to correspond to its location.

 

 

I wanted to paint them all at the same time to avoid going through the multi-step process repeatedly, so I placed strips of masking tape on a scrap piece of wood. Then I numbered where each pair would go and added a piece of double sided scotch tape.

 

Working in pairs, I washed the windows in some acetone and after they dried, placed them on the double sided tape, ensuring they were right side up. They hold really quite well and this way I can get them all painted at the same time, without too much fear of mixing them up.

 

One coat of white on so far. I think two or three coats will do it.

So that's where I am so far with Agamemnon. Not a lot to show, but there is a ton of slow going detail to work through.

 

Thanks for checking in.

 

David

[David Lester]

I've been working in a very disorganized way, turning my attention from the stern to the bow to the hull and back again. Here are a few pictures of what I've been doing.

 

Here I've added the gallery windows and have done some more painting on the hull.

 

I created this elaborate system for organizing and painting the windows, but if I had it to do over again, I'd have just glued them in place unpainted first and then painted them after. Despite my careful application of several coats of white paint, once in place they still needed touch up and I had to file away paint from the corners of the muntins. So I ended up effectively painting them in place anyway, and it was surprising easy to do. Cutting in around the edges was not hard. I think I could have saved myself a lot of wasted effort.

It's starting to look like the Agamemnon -

Here I'm adding the first of the moldings. I was a bit intimidated at the prospect of working with these brass strips and I contemplated replacing them with Evergreen styrene strips. In the end, I decided against that as they can be very hard to glue neatly and I thought they would be hard to keep in a straight line. As it turned out, the brass is not difficult to work with, is very easy to glue in place and it looks pretty good.

 

Here's the first one painted -

Here is the first stage of the bow details -

That's all for now. Thanks again for checking in.

David