Egilman Posted March 6, 2022 Author Share #121 Posted March 6, 2022 On 3/4/2022 at 5:04 PM, Canute said: Nice work, EG. And Klear is/was the name for Future on the other side of the Pond. Thanks Ken, I knew about the Klear/Future/Pledge debacle.. {chuckle} On 3/4/2022 at 5:07 PM, king derelict said: Looks very promising Egilman. The test pieces look great. Alan Thank you Alan, I've got my fingers crossed... On 3/4/2022 at 6:35 PM, Old Collingwood said: Same as our other brothers have said - it looks really good like a mirror - looking forward to see that on the Star. OC. Thanks OC, and all I can say is so am I.... 6 hours ago, FriedClams said: Thanks for walking us through the testing and trials on the simulated bare metal finish Egilman. You've done your due diligence and I appreciate your sharing the formula with us. I look forward to seeing it applied to a model. Wise choice to test it out on the sacrificial P-51 - because you just never know what can happen. Gary Thanks Gary, I think I've got the idea of it and the point of the forum is to share... Testing and experimentation is how we learn... and documenting it here is a way to keep it from dying as a technique if I can learn how it is best done... so a small sacrifice becomes necessary.... If this works, we will be able to put a BMF on anything that will rival and possibly surpass anything an airbrush can do... That's priceless to guys that aren't airbrush skilled... Like me... {chuckle} The link for the P-51 test build is here... Just in case someone comes along late and is trying to follow.... Onwards brothers, onward EG popeye the sailor, Edwardkenway, mtaylor and 4 others 7 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipman Posted March 7, 2022 Share #122 Posted March 7, 2022 Very interesting project, EG. I have a couple of 'Echelon' 1/32 EE Lightning kits in the stash begging for a metal finish. Years ago I did some R&B tests, but was put off by how easy it could be damaged and blemished. Have you never tried real aluminium foil? Again there's a learning curve and various techniques to get different shades of colour etc. And nothing looks more like metal than the stuff its self. Old Collingwood, mtaylor, FriedClams and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye the sailor Posted March 8, 2022 Share #123 Posted March 8, 2022 look'in good.......I see it comes in a tube. how do you put it on....brush or rag? Old Collingwood, mtaylor, Egilman and 2 others 5 Quote I yam wot I yam! finished builds: Billings Nordkap 476 / Billings Cux 87 / Billings Mary Ann / Billings AmericA - reissue Billings Regina - bashed into the Susan A / Andrea Gail 1:20 - semi scratch w/ Billing instructions M&M Fun Ship - semi scratch build / Gundalow - scratch build / Jeanne D'Arc - Heller Phylly C & Denny-Zen - the Lobsie twins - bashed & semi scratch dual build Billing T78 Norden in dry dock: Billing's Gothenborg 1:100 / Billing's Boulogne Etaples 1:20 Billing's Half Moon 1:40 - some scratch required Revell U.S.S. United States 1:96 - plastic/ wood modified / Academy Titanic 1:400 Trawler Syborn - semi scratch / Holiday Harbor dual build - semi scratch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egilman Posted March 8, 2022 Author Share #124 Posted March 8, 2022 15 hours ago, shipman said: Very interesting project, EG. I have a couple of 'Echelon' 1/32 EE Lightning kits in the stash begging for a metal finish. Years ago I did some R&B tests, but was put off by how easy it could be damaged and blemished. Have you never tried real aluminium foil? Again there's a learning curve and various techniques to get different shades of colour etc. And nothing looks more like metal than the stuff its self. Yes I have tries both glued Aluminum Foil and Bare Metal Foil, There are some very pretty models having been done that way, but to me, imho, they just don't look real in a scale sense and they are very difficult to do and get them to look smooth right... it's another one of those special talents that I can't seem to master... I'm hoping this comes out more scale looking, it is certainly easier to apply than either foil or airbrush... Of course that is my humble opinion... My experiments show that Future goes over it well without major discoloration of the RnB, that is what I'm going to be doing over on the P-51 test build... Applying it, rubbing it up then sealing it... Thanks for the suggestion brother... and thanks for following... EG Jack12477, Edwardkenway, FriedClams and 6 others 9 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egilman Posted March 8, 2022 Author Share #125 Posted March 8, 2022 3 hours ago, popeye the sailor said: look'in good.......I see it comes in a tube. how do you put it on....brush or rag? Depends on what you want to do Dennis, if you want the high polished look then it is applied very thinly with a finger, rubbed until it shines... But yes it can be dry brushed on or thinned and sprayed as well from what I've read... Evidently the secret is to apply it very very thinly, a dab will go a long ways... Edwardkenway, Old Collingwood, popeye the sailor and 5 others 8 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egilman Posted March 19, 2022 Author Share #126 Posted March 19, 2022 Now, with the P-51 experiment done... I feel it's time to do another experiment, I've confirmed a few basic things... #1 Rub N Buff is easy to apply... (use rubber gloves, it comes off the fingers with IPA, but it will transfer to whatever you touch so gloves can be removed before handling anything) #2 Apply it thin, very thin, rubbed in with a fingertip... #3 It can be applied over anything... #4 If you want a smooth shiny reflective surface apply it over a smooth glossy surface... The higher the smoothness/gloss the higher the shine/reflectiveness... #5 It can be sealed with Future without damaging the reflectiveness and only a very slight change in color.. (not really noticeable) #6 It can be decaled over directly, Micro Sol/Set doesn't effect it... (but I would personally over coat with future first before decaling) Pretty much everything else about building a model remains the same.. No change... The deficiencies of the kit I chose made for some issues in the finishing of the P-51.. Of course it was chosen on a cost basis in case the experiment failed.. But it didn't fail, In fact it came out much much better than expected... But before I go to town on my F-104 Blue Jay 4, I really want to be confident in the process... so I'm going to do another test build... This time a complete BMF bird... The only paint will be details... Two days ago I had a chance to visit the only local Model Shop local to me... Skyway Models in Skyway WA... I grabbed about ten varied models that I need for my collection... Five of them will easily lend themselves to a complete BMF... The other two are the HK models B-25J glass nose and the B-17F... (I didn't include the pics of these cause I probably won't be using them as an experiment) So I've narrowed down to the three above, and as much as I'm familiar with the P-51 now, I probably won't be doing that one either... So I'm left with the F-86 and the P-38... Both are favorite aircraft of mine... I'm leaning towards the P-38 at this moment but the F-86 is a draw... I have nothing in extras for the 38, I have a cockpit and instrument panel and masks for the 86... Enough to do a decent build on her... Anyway, out of those two, which would you like to see in Rub n Buff? EG Old Collingwood, yvesvidal, Dave_E and 9 others 11 1 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmagna Posted March 19, 2022 Share #127 Posted March 19, 2022 (edited) The BMF aspect is what it is, (and of course what this build is all about) and the 38 and the 86 have to be right at the top of my favorites as well. But the 38 has so many different color choices to pick from and to be honest is from a different time far removed from the 105. The 86 is not only more contemporary but unless you are building a non US version or a FJ-2/3 you are pretty much stuck with silver/BMF to one degree or another as color choices. Might as well go for the 86 as it will end up that color anyway and you would just have to do it later. Edited March 19, 2022 by lmagna Canute, FriedClams, Egilman and 6 others 9 Quote Lou Build logs: Colonial sloop Providence 1/48th scale kit bashed from AL Independence Currant builds: Constructo Brigantine Sentinel (Union) (On hold) Minicraft 1/350 Titanic (For the Admiral) 1/350 Heavy Cruiser USS Houston (Resin) Currant research/scratchbuild: Schooner USS Lanikai/Hermes Non ship build log: 1/35th UH-1H Huey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canute Posted March 19, 2022 Share #128 Posted March 19, 2022 I'd like to see the F86 too. Saw a few flying about, too, at airshows. They were all shiny bare aluminum, except for the gun muzzle panels, like in your box top. Would you call it magnesium or steel color? The cover stands out. Edwardkenway, FriedClams, popeye the sailor and 3 others 6 Quote Ken Started: MS Bounty Longboat, On Hold: Heinkel USS Choctaw paper Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1 Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section Member Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardkenway Posted March 19, 2022 Share #129 Posted March 19, 2022 I personally love the P38, but as Lou said, could be done with a different finish, the Sabre on the other hand, I've only seen BMF ones. In short the 86 would be the kit I'd choose. mtaylor, FriedClams, Egilman and 5 others 8 Quote Current builds; Henry Ramey Upcher 1:25 Providence whaleboat- 1:25 HMS Winchelsea 1764 1:48 Completed: HM Cutter Sherbourne- 1:64- finished Triton cross section scratch- 1:60 - finished Non ship: SBD-3 Dauntless 1:48 Hasegawa -FINISHED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canute Posted March 20, 2022 Share #130 Posted March 20, 2022 You could do a Pudgy, Tom McGuire's P-38. I was out on the flight-line the day a donated P-38 landed at McGuire AFB. It had been restored and repainted as Pudgy ? (McGuire's planes all had the same name, just a new Roman numeral as he got new mounts). Anyway, it was placed on a pedestal, stored flyable. Every 3 years or so they'd dismount it, tow it to a hangar and clean it up and run the engines. I don't think it was taken up for a test hop, though. Old Collingwood, FriedClams, Jack12477 and 5 others 8 Quote Ken Started: MS Bounty Longboat, On Hold: Heinkel USS Choctaw paper Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1 Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section Member Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egilman Posted March 20, 2022 Author Share #131 Posted March 20, 2022 On 3/18/2022 at 11:27 PM, lmagna said: The BMF aspect is what it is, (and of course what this build is all about) and the 38 and the 86 have to be right at the top of my favorites as well. But the 38 has so many different color choices to pick from and to be honest is from a different time far removed from the 105. The 86 is not only more contemporary but unless you are building a non US version or a FJ-2/3 you are pretty much stuck with silver/BMF to one degree or another as color choices. Might as well go for the 86 as it will end up that color anyway and you would just have to do it later. Very logical Lou, and of course your right, all the F-86's in American service were BMF... And fairly well maintained... The decals represent Beautious Butch II... (could be altered as well to represent Butch I as well) Joe McConnell's aircraft the leading ace out of Korea... It would be fitting.... And as you say I'll have to do the BMF anyway when I get to it... And it will be the exact same finish on the 104 as well... A good tune up... Thanks my friend.. lmagna, Jack12477, Edwardkenway and 4 others 7 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egilman Posted March 20, 2022 Author Share #132 Posted March 20, 2022 On 3/19/2022 at 4:42 AM, Canute said: I'd like to see the F86 too. Saw a few flying about, too, at airshows. They were all shiny bare aluminum, except for the gun muzzle panels, like in your box top. Would you call it magnesium or steel color? The cover stands out. Yeah that is either titanium or stainless steel I haven't researched what it is yet... What you see in these planes today is the high polished look, but it should do very well in a clean reflective finish.. I will probably have to white base the yellow identification stripes, so they stay to true color as well, a good exercise in a needed skill... Thank you my friend... Canute, mtaylor, lmagna and 5 others 8 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egilman Posted March 20, 2022 Author Share #133 Posted March 20, 2022 On 3/19/2022 at 6:36 AM, Edwardkenway said: I personally love the P38, but as Lou said, could be done with a different finish, the Sabre on the other hand, I've only seen BMF ones. In short the 86 would be the kit I'd choose. I agree Ed, doing the 86 would be straight and to the point, the same finish as the F-104 would have in that period... No need for complicated figuring and perfect the technique... Thanks my friend... popeye the sailor, Jack12477, Canute and 5 others 8 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egilman Posted March 20, 2022 Author Share #134 Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Canute said: You could do a Pudgy, Tom McGuire's P-38. I was out on the flight-line the day a donated P-38 landed at McGuire AFB. It had been restored and repainted as Pudgy ? (McGuire's planes all had the same name, just a new Roman numeral as he got new mounts). Anyway, it was placed on a pedestal, stored flyable. Every 3 years or so they'd dismount it, tow it to a hangar and clean it up and run the engines. I don't think it was taken up for a test hop, though. Well it's a P-38L, essentially a "J" model with revised, more efficient radiators, better superchargers, "dive" flaps and stronger hard points on the outer wing to support the christmas tree rocket launchers... so you can model either "J" or an "L" model lightning with it... The decals that come with it are for Maj. George Lavin's "Itsy Bitsy II" 54th FS; 343rd FG '45... All BMF with black stabilizer tips and huge black anti glare panels, it would be a striking study in contrasts... Decals of course are available for either McGuire's Pudgy II or Bong's Marge or Olds Scat II, (which went from Olive over Grey to BMF with red tips during it's lifetime) which would make the markings easier as they were all BMF with red tips... Being from the same fighter group and all... (except for Olds that is) Probably going to go with the F-86F to establish the technique, it's a more straightforward build and would represent the actual finish I want for the F-104... My idea being to get at least one RnB technique down before trying something else.... Thanks for the opinion my friend, they both are fighter pilots airplanes... Thank you Ken... Edited March 20, 2022 by Egilman Edwardkenway, popeye the sailor, lmagna and 4 others 7 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egilman Posted March 20, 2022 Author Share #135 Posted March 20, 2022 Thank you everyone for the opinions and thumbs up's... I've decided on the F-86F pretty much out of the box probably McConnell's Beautious Butch II, after his last mission when he has all 16 Mig 15 outlines on the side of the fuselage...... The only other decal set worth a damn is Mig Mad Marine, John Glenn's F-86 with only three kill markings... Will start a new test thread for this when I get started... Thanks everyone for your patience.... lmagna, Old Collingwood, Danstream and 7 others 10 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canute Posted March 21, 2022 Share #136 Posted March 21, 2022 A light gray under the yellow will work, unless it's a pale yellow. I painted a few diesel locos in a gray, yellow, maroon scheme. The whole body was gray, with yellow ends and maroon stripes along the sides. You'll do great with this build. Egilman, Edwardkenway, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote Ken Started: MS Bounty Longboat, On Hold: Heinkel USS Choctaw paper Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1 Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section Member Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yvesvidal Posted March 21, 2022 Share #137 Posted March 21, 2022 On 3/18/2022 at 11:59 PM, Egilman said: Excellent choices, especially the Sabre and P-38 which are not so common. Yves Egilman, popeye the sailor, Edwardkenway and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egilman Posted March 21, 2022 Author Share #138 Posted March 21, 2022 7 hours ago, Canute said: A light gray under the yellow will work, unless it's a pale yellow. I painted a few diesel locos in a gray, yellow, maroon scheme. The whole body was gray, with yellow ends and maroon stripes along the sides. You'll do great with this build. 3 hours ago, yvesvidal said: Excellent choices, especially the Sabre and P-38 which are not so common. Yves Thank you brothers, Still researching this, and patiently waiting on Kevin to finish his, I don't want to take anything away from his spectacular build of the same kit.... popeye the sailor, Canute, Jack12477 and 5 others 8 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king derelict Posted March 30, 2022 Share #139 Posted March 30, 2022 Catching up on your development of a bare metal finish since I've been away. Your work looks very good. The methodology looks repeatable and controllable which is very encouraging. The F104 is going to be spectacular. I'm very grateful for the tutorials; I'm keen to get my Vampire out on teh table. Great Work Alan Egilman, popeye the sailor, Canute and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egilman Posted March 31, 2022 Author Share #140 Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, king derelict said: Catching up on your development of a bare metal finish since I've been away. Your work looks very good. The methodology looks repeatable and controllable which is very encouraging. The F104 is going to be spectacular. I'm very grateful for the tutorials; I'm keen to get my Vampire out on teh table. Great Work Alan Thank you Alan... So far it has worked well, I'm currently doing a second experiment in Rub n Buff... F-86F-30 You can follow it there.... Full BMF overall going for that '50's semi polished look... Haven't quite started the build yet, still collecting background info, but very very close.... Gonna go step by step on it as confirmation of the process... Edited March 31, 2022 by Egilman Jack12477, popeye the sailor, Canute and 5 others 7 1 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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