Hooks and blocks

[lambsbk]

There used to be a tutorial about making hooks for blocks and tackle but I do not see it on the MSW 2.0. It would be very helpful to have those tutorials or other folks voices of experience to help in this area of modeling - avoiding reinventing the wheel. Specifically I need to hook and block tackle from the Revell Constitution. I have experimented already but I am not happy with my results thus far. I will be working with 2mm single and double blocks and 0.20mm rigging line (both from Syren Ship Modeling Co.).

Thank you in advance for sharing your experiences and techniques.

 

Dave

[Chuck]

Dave..its really hard to explain this in writing.  But the general shape is presented below.  I use a needle nose pliers and just start shaping.  Each hook takes some time.  To make the end of the hook...just cut the wire on an angle so you get a point.  When I get rolling I can only make about 50 in a half hour.   Its a lot of precise bends.  The secret is to have a good set of pliers that has very small pointed ends.  The kind that jewelers use or watch makers.

 

This will enable you to get very small eyes and hooks.   The wire I use is very soft.  It wont allow for much pulling pressure.   You should only apply enough pressure to make the lines taught.  Dont over tighten or the hook will bend.  I use 30 gauge black annealed wire for small hooks.   Those for the 2mm and the 3/32" blocks.  Then I go up to 28 gauge wire for 1/8" blocks and 5/32" blocks.

 

I plan to start making them for sale as well but like I said it takes a lot of time to churn out many of them and keep the shape and size consistent.

 

Chuck

 

 

Here is a look at Gary's Alfred that shows the hooks on his rigged cannon.  These are large ones for 5/32" blocks.

 

 

I will try and make a few tonight in intervals and take some pictures.  But I am sure it will be tough to follow how it was done and with what hand movements.

 

Chuck

[lambsbk]

Thank you Chuck. I had seen these blocks from your avatar but even up close they look superb! 50 per hour. Wow. Thanks also for including the wire size. I will double check mine.

 

Some folks have used brass wire and blackened it. I may give that a try but I have already noticed a structural compromise in the metal integrity after blackening thinner items.

 

From your description my tools may be my main issue. I need to get some better ones. I am heading out with my wife to shop tonight and I will keep at least one eye out for some replacements.

 

Dave

[freewheelinguy]

Chuck,

 

20 gauge for small blocks and 28 gauge for larger?  Possibly typo?

[Chuck]

Woops....good catch....30 gauge for those small ones.

 

Chuck

[popeye2sea]

I struggled for some time trying to make a jig small enough to make hooks, but nothing seemed to work out right.  Found a pair of round nose pliers online from a company called Micro-Tools.  The tips are 1 mm.  I believe they will do the job well enough.  I am going to start making hooks for Chucks 2 mm blocks. I think I have a good method for stropping them also.  The only thing left to work out now is beckets for attaching the standing end of the tackle to the **** of the blocks.  Although that may be a bit of overkill for 2 mm blocks

[lambsbk]

Hello Henry. I am just now experimenting with these hooks. So far not what I wanted but I am 'endeavoring to persevere.' 2mm beckets would be even trickier.  

A jig is an interesting thought.

 

So far I have used round nose pliers with flat faced needle nose pliers. I have 26 gauge brass wire but the finished hooks are too big.

 

Dave

[BareHook]

Here are a couple tutorials online:

 

http://www.modelboatyard.com/hooks.html\

 

http://www.modelboatyard.com/stropping.html

 

Ken

[fnkershner]

Nice tutorial thanks!

[Chuck]

AHH!!!!  very nice....that saved me the trouble.  I make mine the exact same way.  It just takes some practice.  

 

Chuck

[freewheelinguy]

Hi guys,

 

While working on the carronades for my present build I noticed from a pic of a carronade on the Vic that the hooks are perpendicular to the eye.  I always made mine the same as described here.  I have attached to pics one from Vic and Conny showing what I mentioned (English and American example).  For accuracy talking should these that are on real ships be copied or are the way most of us  making these ok?  Just some food for thought.

Edited August 8, 2013 by freewheelinguy

[lambsbk]

Len:

 

I agree. Actually I have been practicing making these perpendicular hooks and I believe they are a little easier than parallel hooks. It is easier to grab the eye while working the hook end. Once I get some reproducibility in my technique I'll post some pics. Thanks for the info.

 

Also, the tree nips I have been using (beader's snips) are awful at cutting the hook. I am going to try a nice pair of nail clippers tonight. We'll see...

 

Dave

Edited August 8, 2013 by lambsbk

[Chuck]

You are correct as far as I have seen but consider this.   The becket of the block.   Usually this isnt added.  Or at least not so its as visible. You can see in this picture that the eye of the hook is very small in comparison to the becket and the hook.   So by not making them perpendicular it simulates this in a way.   You would have to make a very small eye in that hook so it doesnt look oversized.   Its a small detail but one to be considered.  The eye instead could visually take the place of the becket and looks a lot like the picture I posted.   Especially on really small scale models.

 

[lambsbk]

I see your point Chuck. The becket is going to be tricky (if not impossible - oh not for 1 or 2 - but after 56 of them I'll probably be bonkers). Anyway, here are a few of the hooks - fresh off the press so to speak - in the different styles (i.e. parallel/perpendicular/etc.). I have definitely not hit a stride yet.

Edited August 9, 2013 by lambsbk

[JerseyCity Frankie]

I think those hooks look great. But those coils on that most recent photo of Constitution are a disgrace!

[lambsbk]

JCF: What can I say...when you're right you're right.

 

Henry: next time you are on board you might want to get those sailors to make her ship shape. :)

 

Thanks for the kudos on the hooks. It is still very much a work in progress.

Dave

Edited August 10, 2013 by lambsbk

[popeye2sea]

Here is a sample of hooks I have made so far.  The top is with a hook on the same plane as the eye and the bottom is with the hook perpendicular to the eye.  Sorry for the poor picture, I don't have a good macro lens yet.

 

 

They look Ok.  They are about 4 mm long, with the bottom one being about a 0.5 mm shorter due to a  shorter shank.  I plan to use them for 2 mm blocks so they look a bit out of proportion to the blocks.  The finished block with its strop is about 3 mm.

 

I made these using only a pair of round nose pliers.  The eye is still a little large for the strop.  That is because the tip of the pliers is about 1.5 mm (even though advertised as 1.0 mm)

[lambsbk]

Henry: what gauge wire is that? I like the over all look very much.

 

So far I have used beaders tools with a small tip. Even that was too large for the eye so I used a small diameter drill bit and first wrapped the wire circumferentially pulling it tight. After removing the bit I snipped off one end of the wire near the shank and straightened the shanks coarse. You can get really small eyes (and sore eyes) doing this. I have not quite got the curve of the hook yet.

 

Dave

Edited August 10, 2013 by lambsbk

[popeye2sea]

I used 28 gauge steel wire.  The trick to achieving smooth and consistent bends is to use the pliers to hold the wire while you bend the wire around them with your free hand.

 

The first loop I make is the eye, completely closing it around the pliers.  Then I shift the grip of the pliers to the other end of the loop so that I can bend the shank back till it is in line with the center of the loop.  I then shift the grip again to the point along the shank I want to start the hook and bend the wire about 45 degrees.  The grip is then shifted again to the other side of the 45 degree bend and the final bend forms the hook.  Cut the finished hook off of the wire stock and go on with the next.

 

If you make sure the wire is always gripped perpendicular to the pliers all the bends will be on the same plane and you should not have to do any adjusting to get flat hooks

[shipaholic]

I had a go at makiing some hooks today, had to make 12 for the gun tackles. I used copper wire I stripped out of an electical cable. I used round nose pliers to shape the hook and ring and flat nose pliers to bend to shape, after a bit of practice I got the hang of it, but still really tricky because they are so small.

[popeye2sea]

I have been working for some time on a method for stropping blocks with hooks and I think I've decided on a workable solution.  The blocks I am using for the gun and train tackles for the cannons are Chuck Passaro's 2 mm blocks.  The strops are made with black polyester sewing thread and the hooks are formed from 28 gauge steel wire.  For this 2 mm block the strop is about 9 mm long.

 

An eye is made in the thread by tucking the end twice between the strands.

 

The serving machine is employed to serve over a couple of turns of the thread.

 

A hook is threaded onto the strop and the ends of the strop closed by passing the end of the thread through the eyes of the strop.

 

I made a seizing jig by filing a pin down to fit the holes of a 2 mm block and placing a few more pins to tension the hook and strop on the block

 

Another pin is inserted to form the eye of the strop around

 

The free end is passed around the strop between the pin and the block to seize the sides of the strop together, hove tight, and secured with a clove hitch.

 

The finished blocks:

 

The 2 mm blocks are really hard to work with because they are so small.  I think as I get better with this I want to make the eye of the hook smaller, the eye of the strop smaller, and the strop itself thinner diameter.  They all seem to be a little large for this block.

 

Next up is figuring out how to make a good looking becket for the standing part of the tackle to seize to.

[popeye2sea]

Here is my latest iteration for 2 mm blocks stropped with a hook.

 

[Chuck]

Very nice hooks.  I know how small these actually are and how finicky it is to make the hooks and strop them.  Here are some of my blocks with hooks.  The bottom block is a 2mm.  The two above that are 3/32".   This is about as small as I can make a reasonably good looking hook.

 

Chuck

 

[popeye2sea]

Thanks Chuck,  That's a great compliment coming from you.  That is one of your blocks, BTW.

[cristikc]

Nice solution, i will tray it very soon. Thank's

[lambsbk]

I finally got around to trying my hand at these blocks. I took Henry's and Janos idea and tried a jig. I used wire from a wire wheel  - about an inch long but fairly small diameter and strong. I placed 2 of these side by side in a maple miter box turned upside down then a larger wire behind them for the becket. I'll get some pics up of the process used but for now here is a pic of the prototype.

 

Edited September 5, 2013 by lambsbk

[jud]

The plain hooks I have used  were made with the ring both ways, you had to choose which one fit the job. What really counts is the shape of both types of plain hooks. All the plain hooks are made with a dip in the back side and a turn up on the open side, only way you can keep seizings on the thing when you need to keep it from jumping off of the ring when you are dealing with slack and pull conditions. I have a bunch of those hooks that I use on chains and even the safety hooks are made with the siezing dips in the castings.

jud

[lambsbk]

Here is my solution to stropping 2mm blocks...first up is the double block. I used an inverted maple miter box and wire from a rotary drill wire brush since these were stiff and threaded through the blocks. The becket is formed around a third thicker wire. All are drilled into the miter box  to at least 3/8". The larger wire (for the becket) is perpendicular to the smaller wires for the double block.

 

The block is maneuvered onto the jig.

 

A square knot is made around the large wire with moistened line(30/70 Elmers and water) to form the becket.

 

It is then placed behind the block.

 

The block is then stropped and an overhand knot is placed on the bottom. It is kept under tension and Plastruct Weld Cement is applied  to the strop and the becket and then dried with a hair dryer.

Edited October 10, 2013 by lambsbk

[lambsbk]

I then trim the extra line and apply a little CA to the overhand knot to further secure it.

 

The block is then removed from the jig when the CA is dry (hastened again with the hair dryer).

 

I then attach a hook (these are not my best effort but show how it is finished.)

Edited September 22, 2013 by lambsbk

[lambsbk]

The single blocks are made the same way but with a  line from the bottom of the block and the large wire (which I use to form the becket) moved 90 degrees (or parallel to the block). 

 

The block is placed on the jig.

 

The line is attached in a similar fashion but with the rigging line extending past the block.

 

With the attached hook.

Edited September 22, 2013 by lambsbk