Rigging a vintage schooner

[GrandpaPhil]

@Dr PR wrote a most excellent guide to rigging a schooner on this website.

 

I used this extensively while rigging my model of the schooner Hannah (much older, but still very similar).

 

I strongly recommend giving it a read.

[Elmina]

14 hours ago, allanyed said:

There may be some variation for a 1901 schooner, but this MIGHT act as a guide.  Working backwards, using ratios in Lees Masting and Rigging on page 164, for a 12 inch block (1" at scale) the diameter of the sheave hole was 1/8 the length of the shell, so the sheave hole would be about 0.125" (3.175mm)  The sheave was 1/16 less than the sheave hole (~0.118" - 3mm)  If that is the case, and the rope is as he describes at 1/10th the width of the sheave the rope would be  0.106" in diameter.   This is the largest rope Syren offers on the website so large rope will need to be made by Elmina or sourced elsewhere.

 

The blocks would likely be internally stropped and unfortunately Syren's blocks only go up to about 5/16" so Elmina may need to make his own blocks. over 5/16".  Making internally stropped blocks at this large scale is really as difficult as making those for smaller scales.

 

Ropes of Scale makes larger rope, but the larger rope is all cable laid so will not look right.

 

Allan

Hello , I should have been more specific. When I said the model was  8’ long I was including the bow sprit. The actual hull is 5’9” overall . When it is completed and the aft boom is installed it will be greater than 8’. But I’m assuming for scale purposes they use the actual LOA.  

THANKS 

[Keith Black]

 What is the measurement of the deadeyes and the measurement from the bow to the transom? 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Keith Black

[Dr PR]

My post about topsail schooner rigging gives a good idea about how there were many variations - I sometimes think as many variations as there were schooners!

 

The topsail schooners probably had the most complex schooner rig. But many (most) schooners did not carry any square sails. For the fore mast on these you can just repeat the rig that was on the main mast, with or without a boom on the fore sail foot.

 

Another catch is the configuration of the masts. Some smaller schooners just had single pole masts without top masts. These usually had the gaffs hoisted high on the masts and had no gaff topsails. Some had short topmasts with a topsail rigged above the gaff, at least on the main mast. There is quite a bit of variation in the complexity of the tops at the mast doubling.

 

Some had a gaff topsail on the fore mast and others had a main top staysail on the main top stay. And I have found eleven different types of fore-and-aft topsails on the fore and main masts (I show seven in my schooner rigging post, and need to update the post).

 

"Bermuda rig" schooners had just a large triangular sail on the main mast with the foot attached to the boom. These had no gaff, but early versions actually had a short spar attached to the top of the sail (it was trapezoidal) that was used to hoist the sail.

 

Your Elmina model doesn't have a racing hull like the one shown in Chapelle's book, and it has very short top masts. I would pick a rig typical of a working schooner or private yacht, with  large gaff sails on both masts. The top masts are not tall enough for the typical gaff topsails so these masts may have just been supports for the gaff peak and throat halliards, and for stays for the fore sheets. However, there were some unusual jackyard topsails that flew on two spars, one rigged to the end of the gaff (jackyard) and the other (topsail yard) hoisted to the top of the topmast, with the triangular sail flying between them. These were temporary sails and were hoisted aloft from the deck. But this seems to have been used mainly on racing boats of the late 19th century to get around rules that limited topsail size.

 

The model does have a boom for the fore staysail, so it probably also had a boom for the fore sail, as well as a longer boom for the main sail. Since it had a simple spar bowsprit I'd guess it had the fore staysail and a single jib, with perhaps a flying jib that could be rigged if needed.

 

****

 

Now for the hard part. After a sail plan is selected the necessary standing and running rigging lines are fairly obvious variations on common arrangements. But the belaying points for all those ropes on the deck and bulwarks were almost never documented because "everyone knew how to do that." The seem to be two simple rules. First, the lower lines lead forward and the higher the line the farther aft it leads. And lines that run through blocks or sheaves on the mast lead down to the base of the mast while lines coming down from yardarms lead outboard to bulwarks or on deck close to the bulwarks. Often the higher lines on the mast also lead outboard to the bulwarks. The actual belaying points could be ring bolts, cleats or pinrails. All this varied from ship to ship, but the end result was rigging that did not foul the other lines and ran smoothly.

 

****

 

There are two clues to the size of the vessel and whether it carried square sails. The beam was wider relative to the length on smaller vessels. Larger ships had a longer length to width ratio - but not by too much. But the beam to width ration can tell the approximate size of the ship (small or large).

 

Ships with square sails on the foremast usually had the widest part of the beam forward near the foremast that carried the greater weight of sails and spars. The wider beam was more buoyant and could support more weight. In this case the foremast was often greater diameter than the main mast and usually a bit shorter. Full fore-and-aft rigged hulls had the widest part of the beam midships near the heavier main mast and both masts were the same diameter, again with a shorter fore mast.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Dr PR

[Roger Pellett]

I believe that the boomed staysail is not intended to replicate any actual scale appearance.  Rather it is there to facilitate sailing.  For free sailing, it could be set like other sails.  With the double sheets the sail would not be self-tacking, but there is no also no evidence that that the boat was ever fitted with a clockwork tacking mechanism.  I agree that the masts are peculiar.  The short topmasts would not require spreaders.

 

Interesting mysteries.

 

Roger

 

 

[Elmina]

This is my second posting on this model. I am brand new to this hobby and determined to rig this vintage schooner . I was given great advise and encouragement on my first posting .  I have several questions on this project but would like to research one item at a time , 

the first subject is the bow sprit. I feel like I could spend weeks Just rigging it .  I have attached photos to hopefully help you understand my questions.  Thank you in advance to anyone who will entertain a newby 
 

# 1 there are 2 connection points on the bow, the lowest one is just below the water line I’m assuming they are for a dolphin striker and Bobstay .if that is the case the smaller upper one is where the dolphin striker would attach and the lower one where the bobstay would attach .Also can anyone tell me what the dolphin striker would look like , how it would attach etc ?

there are also 2 connection points on both port and starboard bow that can be seen in my photos , I’m not sure what lines would run to them. 

there is a large brass ring with 4 eyes on the outermost portion of the bow sprit and 2 eyes fastened to the top of the bow sprit behind the brass ring. Wish me luck and thanks again

 

 

 

[Roger Pellett]

There are four eyes on the brass collar at the end of the bowsprit.  The logical use for these would be- jib stay, Bobstay, bowsprit shrouds (2).  The bobstay would attach to the lower of the two attachment points on the stem.  The shrouds to the large brass points on the side of the hull.

 

There is a traveler on the forward .end of the staysail club (boom).  The purpose of the traveler is to adjust the fore and aft position of this sale to balance the rig.  A line leads forward from the end of the staysail club to a small block fixed to the aft of the two eyes at the end of the bowsprit behind the collar.  This line then comes back inboard to be belayed somewhere at the inboard end of the bowsprit.  The second eye on the end of the bowsprit would secure the tack of a jib.

 

Roger

[Elmina]

12 minutes ago, Roger Pellett said:

There are four eyes on the brass collar at the end of the bowsprit.  The logical use for these would be- jib stay, Bobstay, bowsprit shrouds (2).  The bobstay would attach to the lower of the two attachment points on the stem.  The shrouds to the large brass points on the side of the hull.

 

There is a traveler on the forward .end of the staysail club (boom).  The purpose of the traveler is to adjust the fore and aft position of this sale to balance the rig.  A line leads forward from the end of the staysail club to a small block fixed to the aft of the two eyes at the end of the bowsprit behind the collar.  This line then comes back inboard to be belayed somewhere at the inboard end of the bowsprit.  The second eye on the end of the bowsprit would secure the tack of a jib.

 

Roger

Wow thanks for the quick response Roger it’s great to be able to get these answers .as anxious as I am to get going here , I will be dissecting your response and all the terms and see what I come up with . This is humbling to realize I will probably spend weeks just on this area. . Can’t tell you how much I appreciate the knowledge. I thought I would start with rigging the mast stays just to stabilize the masts and have some visual gratification, but I guess if I’m working from the bottom up ,so  I should start here with the bowsprit . Would a dolphin attach to the higher / smaller fitting on the stem ?

[Elmina]

On 4/21/2022 at 10:02 PM, Keith Black said:

 What is the measurement of the deadeyes and the measurement from the bow to the transom? 

Hello the deadeyes are 1/2 “ and the hull is 5’ 8-3/4” overall 

thank you

[Keith Black]

 I'm all over the board trying to figure out what the scale is for this model. If the 1/2 inch deadeye is representing a 12 inch deadeye the scale is 1:24. If it's representing a 14 inch deadeye the scale would be 1:28. At 1:24 scale, 5' 8 and 3/4 inches or 69 inches would equal 140 feet. 

 

 If 69 inches is representing 99 feet then that scale would be approximately 1:17 and a 12 inch deadeye would equal .70588 inches to scale. If representing a 14 inch deadeye the scales size would be .8235 inches. For the 1/2 inch deadeye to work at 1:17 scale, it would be a 9 inch deadeye to actual size. 

 

 1:17 isn't unheard of but 1:18 is more common. To nail down the scale everything needs to get measured, binnacle, anchors, life ring, single blocks, everything. 

 

 The scale is really only important in figuring out the size of the ship's wheel. 

[Roger Pellett]

Yes, the upper brass fixture on the stem as well as the smaller ones on each side of the bow could well be attachment points for lines from a dolphin striker.  I suggest that there should be a hole on the underside of the bow where the. Dolphin striker was fixed.  I would also not rule out the possibility that the.re was a bowsprit spreader helping to withstand lateral forces.

 

I recommend that you first make a freehand sketch of the bowsprit showing all holes and attached fittings.  Then we will have a better idea of what is going on.

 

Roger

[Elmina]

7 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

Yes, the upper brass fixture on the stem as well as the smaller ones on each side of the bow could well be attachment points for lines from a dolphin striker.  I suggest that there should be a hole on the underside of the bow where the. Dolphin striker was fixed.  I would also not rule out the possibility that the.re was a bowsprit spreader helping to withstand lateral forces.

 

I recommend that you first make a freehand sketch of the bowsprit showing all holes and attached fittings.  Then we will have a better idea of what is going on.

 

Roger

Thank you Roger , I will make a sketch , there is no hole anywhere underside of bow . I am awaiting a copy of gaff rig handbook. I’m hoping that gives me some visual references to the different possibilities. This is going to be a long journey but I am really excited about it. I have a lot going on but look for chances to research this rigging. It is therapeutic . It wouldn’t be possible without seasoned ship builders like yourself . Can’t wait to see the first lines attached here.  I have remnants of sails here. So far I have identified the fore sail remnants and the rite stay sail remnants. There are more pieces to pick through . 
thanks again

[Elmina]

Just now, Elmina said:

Thank you Roger , I will make a sketch , there is no hole anywhere underside of bow . I am awaiting a copy of gaff rig handbook. I’m hoping that gives me some visual references to the different possibilities. This is going to be a long journey but I am really excited about it. I have a lot going on but look for chances to research this rigging. It is therapeutic . It wouldn’t be possible without seasoned ship builders like yourself . Can’t wait to see the first lines attached here.  I have remnants of sails here. So far I have identified the fore sail remnants and the rite stay sail remnants. There are more pieces to pick through . 
thanks again

That was ment to say fore stay sail remnants 

[Dr PR]

The bowsprit is the correct place to start the rigging. Period books on rigging start there, because some of the fore mast rigging has to attach to the bowsprit.

 

Here is a drawing of a schooner bowsprit rigging. It shows a two piece bowsprit and jib boom, but the terminology is the same.

 

 

Here is another from Harold Underhill's "Masting and Rigging the Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier" (one of the best references for sailing ship rigging, especially after the mid 19th century). This is for a late 19th century or early 20th century single pole bowsprit. It has a "running bobstay" that allows controlling the tension on the bobstay.

 

 

Note where the inner bobstay attaches to the bowsprit - about half way along the length and not at the forward end. Often this is the only bobstay if the vessel had the martingale stay. Sometimes there were two separate bobstays on larger vessels. The bobstay usually had some type of tackle that could be adjusted to increase tension.

 

There were several ways the bobstay attached to the stem (the leading edge of the hull). Sometimes a simple hole was drilled through the stem (top illustration) and the bobstay ran through the hole. Or a metal plate (bottom illustration) was fastened to the stem, and it had an eye that the bobstay fastened to (with a shackle for chain bobstays). I have even seen an arrangement that had a block shackled to the metal plate on the stem and another block attached to the bowsprit. The bobstay was the line running through these blocks with the running end (loose end) leading up to a cleat on the bulwark - this allowed tension to be tightened on the bobstay. I don't think this was a very common rig. In all cases the bobstay attached to the stem at a point above the normal load waterline.

 

If the vessel has a dolphin striker (sometimes called a martingale) it will be attached to the bowsprit about half way out, or just forward from where the (inner) bobstay attaches. Usually where the fore stay or jib stay attaches to the bowsprit. There are a lot of variations here, and some schooners didn't have a dolphin striker.

 

The bobstay(s) and martingale stay pulled down on the bowsprit/jib boom to take the vertical strain from the force of the sails. The bowsprit/jib boom guys took the horizontal strain on the spars.

 

There are many photos of modern schooners on the Internet, and some very good photos of bowsprit rigging. Search for these vessels:

 

Belle Poule

La Recouvrance

Etoile

Pride of Baltimore

 

The spar that fastened to the stem was often found on racing schooners to spread the foot of the fore staysail out to the side, much as a spinnaker boom is used for the spinnakers on smaller vessels. I think John Leather discusses this in his "Gaff Rig Handbook."

Edited April 26, 2022 by Dr PR

[Elmina]

On 4/22/2022 at 2:14 AM, Dr PR said:

My post about topsail schooner rigging gives a good idea about how there were many variations - I sometimes think as many variations as there were schooners!

 

The topsail schooners probably had the most complex schooner rig. But many (most) schooners did not carry any square sails. For the fore mast on these you can just repeat the rig that was on the main mast, with or without a boom on the fore sail foot.

 

Another catch is the configuration of the masts. Some smaller schooners just had single pole masts without top masts. These usually had the gaffs hoisted high on the masts and had no gaff topsails. Some had short topmasts with a topsail rigged above the gaff, at least on the main mast. There is quite a bit of variation in the complexity of the tops at the mast doubling.

 

Some had a gaff topsail on the fore mast and others had a main top staysail on the main top stay. And I have found eleven different types of fore-and-aft topsails on the fore and main masts (I show seven in my schooner rigging post, and need to update the post).

 

"Bermuda rig" schooners had just a large triangular sail on the main mast with the foot attached to the boom. These had no gaff, but early versions actually had a short spar attached to the top of the sail (it was trapezoidal) that was used to hoist the sail.

 

Your Elmina model doesn't have a racing hull like the one shown in Chapelle's book, and it has very short top masts. I would pick a rig typical of a working schooner or private yacht, with  large gaff sails on both masts. The top masts are not tall enough for the typical gaff topsails so these masts may have just been supports for the gaff peak and throat halliards, and for stays for the fore sheets. However, there were some unusual jackyard topsails that flew on two spars, one rigged to the end of the gaff (jackyard) and the other (topsail yard) hoisted to the top of the topmast, with the triangular sail flying between them. These were temporary sails and were hoisted aloft from the deck. But this seems to have been used mainly on racing boats of the late 19th century to get around rules that limited topsail size.

 

The model does have a boom for the fore staysail, so it probably also had a boom for the fore sail, as well as a longer boom for the main sail. Since it had a simple spar bowsprit I'd guess it had the fore staysail and a single jib, with perhaps a flying jib that could be rigged if needed.

 

****

 

Now for the hard part. After a sail plan is selected the necessary standing and running rigging lines are fairly obvious variations on common arrangements. But the belaying points for all those ropes on the deck and bulwarks were almost never documented because "everyone knew how to do that." The seem to be two simple rules. First, the lower lines lead forward and the higher the line the farther aft it leads. And lines that run through blocks or sheaves on the mast lead down to the base of the mast while lines coming down from yardarms lead outboard to bulwarks or on deck close to the bulwarks. Often the higher lines on the mast also lead outboard to the bulwarks. The actual belaying points could be ring bolts, cleats or pinrails. All this varied from ship to ship, but the end result was rigging that did not foul the other lines and ran smoothly.

 

****

 

There are two clues to the size of the vessel and whether it carried square sails. The beam was wider relative to the length on smaller vessels. Larger ships had a longer length to width ratio - but not by too much. But the beam to width ration can tell the approximate size of the ship (small or large).

 

Ships with square sails on the foremast usually had the widest part of the beam forward near the foremast that carried the greater weight of sails and spars. The wider beam was more buoyant and could support more weight. In this case the foremast was often greater diameter than the main mast and usually a bit shorter. Full fore-and-aft rigged hulls had the widest part of the beam midships near the heavier main mast and both masts were the same diameter, again with a shorter fore mast.

Thank you so much. I have located the boom for the fore sail . It was actually attached by remnants of  its rigging. There are  also attachment points and fragments of the main sail boom. I really do not believe there were square sails. I have fragments of sails I am trying to identify and so far nothing square.  I really appreciate your help and advice. I’m learning everything from scratch, the terminology is one of my greatest challenges at the moment . I have to go back and look but when you say gaffs , if they are the angered pieces that fork into the mast above main sails. Yes I have one and remnants of another.  I will continue to study all of this.  I am waiting on a copy of gaff rigg handbook to hopefully help me   

Thanks very much for all the info , knowledge and patience with a newby.  I have decided to start with the bow sprit.  I’m trying to determine how it was set up. Bobstay ,etc.  gonna be a long journey but I find it very therapeutic   Thanks again. 

[Elmina]

17 hours ago, Dr PR said:

The bowsprit is the correct place to start the rigging. Period books on rigging start there, because some of the fore mast rigging has to attach to the bowsprit.

 

Here is a drawing of a schooner bowsprit rigging. It shows a two piece bowsprit and jib boom, but the terminology is the same.

 

 

Here is another from Harold Underhill's "Masting and Rigging the Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier" (one of the best references for sailing ship rigging, especially after the mid 19th century). This is for a late 19th century or early 20th century single pole bowsprit. It has a "running bobstay" that allows controlling the tension on the bobstay.

 

 

Note where the inner bobstay attaches to the bowsprit - about half way along the length and not at the forward end. Often this is the only bobstay if the vessel had the martingale stay. Sometimes there were two separate bobstays on larger vessels. The bobstay usually had some type of tackle that could be adjusted to increase tension.

 

There were several ways the bobstay attached to the stem (the leading edge of the hull). Sometimes a simple hole was drilled through the stem (top illustration) and the bobstay ran through the hole. Or a metal plate (bottom illustration) was fastened to the stem, and it had an eye that the bobstay fastened to (with a shackle for chain bobstays). I have even seen an arrangement that had a block shackled to the metal plate on the stem and another block attached to the bowsprit. The bobstay was the line running through these blocks with the running end (loose end) leading up to a cleat on the bulwark - this allowed tension to be tightened on the bobstay. I don't think this was a very common rig. In all cases the bobstay attached to the stem at a point above the normal load waterline.

 

If the vessel has a dolphin striker (sometimes called a martingale) it will be attached to the bowsprit about half way out, or just forward from where the (inner) bobstay attaches. Usually where the fore stay or jib stay attaches to the bowsprit. There are a lot of variations here, and some schooners didn't have a dolphin striker.

 

The bobstay(s) and martingale stay pulled down on the bowsprit/jib boom to take the vertical strain from the force of the sails. The bowsprit/jib boom guys took the horizontal strain on the spars.

 

There are many photos of modern schooners on the Internet, and some very good photos of bowsprit rigging. Search for these vessels:

 

Belle Poule

La Recouvrance

Etoile

Pride of Baltimore

 

The spar that fastened to the stem was often found on racing schooners to spread the foot of the fore staysail out to the side, much as a spinnaker boom is used for the spinnakers on smaller vessels. I think John Leather discusses this in his "Gaff Rig Handbook."

Thank you. This gives me so much to dive into  . There is a large bronze plate with a hole in the center attached to the stem. We are assuming they is for a Bobstay  there is a much smaller similar fitting up about 5 “ on the stem, that one is a mystery so far 

there are large plates with eyes just under the rail . They are the farthest back from the bow , we are assuming possibly bow sprit Schrouds .

There are 2 similar much smaller connection points more forward and lower, about half way between the rail and waterline . They are a mystery . After looking at the drawings you sent , I’m thinking foot ropes possibly ??

there appears to never have been anything fastened to the bowsprit other than 2 small eyes  on the top all the way forward ,so I don’t think a running Bobstay would have existed. 
I’m starting to think we will never know how it was originally rigged exactly but if there is a configuration that utilizes all the connections and is rigged properly. , that would be great. 

I will google the ships that you sent me. I have attached a close up of the bow connection points.  Thank you very much 

 

[Dr PR]

I would guess the larger upper plate on the side of the bow is for the bowsprit guys. "Guys" is a term applied to cables attached to spars to give a horizontal pull. In the case of the bowsprit they are for stability and strength. On booms that swing the guys pull it from side to side.

 

The smaller lower plate on the side might be for martingale back stays if the vessel had a dolphin striker. This was pretty common. The martingale stay ran from the tip of the bowsprit down to the bottom of the dolphin striker. From there two martingale backstays led out in a "V" to attachments on the port and starboard sides of the bow.

 

I think the large metal plate on the stem at the waterline is for the bobstay. If the ship had the martingale stays to support the end of the bowsprit/jib boom the bobstay would attach somewhere near the middle of the bowsprit where one of the fore mast stays attached. If there was no dolphin striker the bobstay would attach farther out near the end of the bowsprit.

 

I don't know what the smaller plate on the stem is for. It could be a fastener for a block that is part of a tackle that controls strain on some part of the running rigging (sail rigging) such as a traveler on the bowsprit. Some fore sails were attached to a traveller that could be pulled in on the bowsprit to furl the sail or run out forward to hoist the sail. This made it easier to handle the sail without having to climb far out on the bowsprit, and was very common.

 

If the vessel had footropes they could have been attached to cleats on the bulwarks at the bow.

 

****

 

Keep in mind that the standing rigging always forms triangles with the mast and hull. The mast is the vertical side and bears the weight of the rigging. The hull/deck is the horizontal side that connects the bottom of the mast to the belaying (attachment) point for the rigging. The rigging provides support for the mast to absorb forces from the wind and sails that try to mend/break the mast. So for every piece of the standing rigging try to find the other two sides of the triangle. There may be two similar lines on opposite sides of the mast to form a triangle with the hull, as with the martingale backstays.

 

****

 

Leather's "Gaff Rig Handbook" is the best reference I know of for racing yachts in the 20th century, but it mainly talks about British vessels. He doesn't mention the Elmina in the index. However, the book is a horrible reference! He mainly gives the history of the fore-and-aft rig, with details scattered all through the text. None of the rigging details are listed in the index so to find one small bit of information you have to search through the book!

 

****

 

Schooners are my favorite vessels and I have lots of reference books. I am happy to help with details if I can. You can send me a personal email message (PM) through the forum.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Dr PR

[Elmina]

Hello , I have tried to stay focused on the bow sprit rigging and will continue to focus on that. I just wanted to post this information 

I have identified 3 of the 5. Sails that were with the boat . I have what are obviously  #1 the main sail #2 fore sail #3 fore stay sail . 

Then there arec are 2 sails , I am assuming jib and flying jib . One was on what appears to be a long jib stay . The lengths of the stay would work from the end of bowsprit to top of fore mast. It is about The only logical place I see  for it , I’m assuming the sail remnants would be the flying jib ? The last one had only a piece of a stay running through it. I’m assuming that would be for the jib , but I’m the vertices edge of it seems too far away from the mast. .I have temporarily placed them and taken a photo / attached here.   Any thoughts ? Thanks 

[Elmina]

I can find no evidence of a dolphin striker.  I am going to post a free hand sketch of the bowsprit and bow showing all connection points etc. Howard had suggested it . I’m leaning towards the Gloucester fishing schooner setup seen in the attached photo . it appears to have the 2 bow stem attachment points and the larger of the port and starboard hull connection points. That still leaves 2 smaller port and starboard connection points unaccounted for 

[Dr PR]

I think you have it right about the fore staysail, jib and flying jib. The connecton points for the stays look OK, but in some cases the fore stay and jib stay connect at about the same point. There is a lot of variation on this.

 

Many vessels did not have a dolphin striker so the Gloucester schooner style bowsprit  is OK.

 

I'm pretty sure the larger, upper plates on the side of the bow were for the bowsprit guys. The smaller plates may be for foot ropes as you suggested earlier.

 

One think to keep in mind is that racing boat sails and rigging were often quite a bit different from working boats like fishing schooners. Even so, at first glance they look a lot alike.

[Keith Black]

And so it goes......

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/295759522121?hash=item44dca42949:g:qEUAAOSwiJ5kX59S&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4Ab3DFg3c3dF71eg3QeXeQ2EnXyewbgfQ3o0g1Kg6Ax5maoHN%2BnSasybx4HdUS9A8XwVsGY5UlglmQqKYSPHkcYDmRdx8WN9qO07k%2Fibd9psZItJRIzY9ZZNSbGGYrLqrlmvCQbM87tOAkatyrqrE7MiFZN3nOX5KMphlUUUbIvQP7oaPa4LsWKjIx%2BsG%2FUzIAkpA8bwzF6D9%2FC2t862XXv6hO0DEgzeiIgDEAHDi0StT4mTtLqRuMMavzf0vfqjcSWyvTM%2B1CHSpJo4nVBNY4JPT7MdrAzVwUT7Z7%2B9MjiY|tkp%3ABk9SR-TqyM6aYg

[allanyed]

If I had room I would take a drive over there as the price is certainly very attractive, but hard to tell from the photo what kind of shape it is in,  They do not provide provenance, authenticity or quality.   

Allan  

[Keith Black]

 Allan, you can get a sense of the restoration effort through this log. I'm sure that if you made contact expressing interest he'd give all the information he has. I'd love to see someone like yourself from the membership take on this model. She's a lovely ole lass. 

[allanyed]

Thanks Keith.   This model is way too big for our house but it still might be interesting to go see it.  I will PM the person that posted.

Allan

Edited June 20, 2023 by allanyed

[Keith Black]

 Allan, were you able to contact the owner? He's lowered the price by $150.00 but as large as the model is, it's going to be a difficult sell.

 

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/295773843113?hash=item44dd7eaea9:g:qEUAAOSwiJ5kX59S&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAABIG383h50WJaj1wHYcR4wxVqsUJaM5H3EBvatqvDvTbHeGBQhiUhxJ4G8udreW1dX2i%2FkvFtZg%2FPlG8VZ2nI8NRxOsIq8G4iPUbg3jIGf0dxHFwcZ2xhZYnJgB3rR0WRsMgcx6Bx9iBuYzHwRZCtK9QEgalsVk%2Ff34komEaziofJqESpTvD%2FA9wwdIOvAQc7Y64nB2%2FjEIn34V62ywKVlh7PbTgDfwBVUYcTYvGv4VrKVV5FAFJB9J8%2FzTMCoqFqehMXGuZAicsYLMhGE0Ua04cmOG2o%2FiBlLdkzTjh0anO0Bu9chM%2BPkVxYv8GFCpizC2160UNZBTq%2FZZOGXlokqzqx%2BzqyCDzOPztn%2BuSjmQvSsFsmAUp%2BwpJatVY%2Bcx5bOcA%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR5LJuJegYg

[ccoyle]

2 hours ago, Keith Black said:

He's lowered the price by $150.00 but as large as the model is, it's going to be a difficult sell.

 

That's a pretty niche item there -- I'll bet there's precious few people around who can tell if that's a reasonable asking price or not.

[Keith Black]

1 hour ago, ccoyle said:

That's a pretty niche item there

 Yeah, I don't see it going in someone's home as the size makes it a bit impractical but I do see it going into a country club dinning area particularly an area near a coast. She's kinda special, I hope she finds that special place.  

Edited June 28, 2023 by Keith Black

[Roger Pellett]

After reading Rob Napier’s excellent book about caring for ship models, I thought that it would be fun to restore a well made but abused model to its former glory.  When I have nothing better to do I sometimes browse EBay for a suitable candidate.  

 

There is one one major roadblock (pun intended!); shipping.  Not wishing to make a road trip to the East Coast where most worthwhile projects are, getting the model moved without further damage made things impractical.  Likewise, IMHO by rigging the model,  Elmina has reduced the market for it.

 

Roger

Edited June 28, 2023 by Roger Pellett

[Bob Cleek]

I never could figure out the topmasts on this model. There's just no explanation for going to the trouble of building all the top hamper necessary for fidded topmasts that are so short above the lower mast. You'd think a sane boatbuilder would have simply made the lower masts a bit longer and saved themself a lot of trouble. I wonder if somebody somewhere along the way decided to "bob" the topmasts in order to get them inside a room or something. Those topmasts sure do catch the eye.

 

Stubby little things and who knows where the foresail gaff boom came from... or goes to? The spreaders, rather than trestle trees, seem somewhat incongruous, as do only two shrouds to a side per mast.  It's true, though, that there are only two chainplates to a side per mast, which is a good indication of the original rig. From that, I'd guess it was originally a rather simple bald-headed working schooner rig. 

 

My inner detective causes me to suspect that this rig was rebuilt at some point prior to the latest restoration. Perhaps she was originally much more simply rigged as a pond model and later on somebody decided to turn her into a display model by giving her a much more extreme and complicated rig. 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Bob Cleek