Constellation 1856 by JerryTodd - 1:36 scale - RADIO - First Class Sloop of War

[JerryTodd]

Being able to move a 100+ pound model without breaking things is the trick, so the cart is a critical item.

 

I had a couple of ideas to solve that.  Both were based on using 8"-10" wheels from a folding grocery cart or used tricycle; and a bit of angle iron from an old bed frame.  The handle would be a wooden closet pole and be removable.  The whole thing would simply be bolted together - maybe I could get some of it welded later on.

 

First I came up with this sort of boat-trailer idea.  The upper rail would have padding/rollers to hold the model up-right, but the U shaped set-up at the bottom would bear all the weight and keep the hull from turning.

 

These drawings are scale-ish, and it's that brownish color because the bed frame I have is that color.

 

But looking at that got me wanting to simplify and lighten things, so I think this is where I'm headed.  A stop at the front of the U channel keeps the model from going to far forward and bumping the rig on the handle.

 

I'm thinking the wheels can be set more forward so the cart will want to tilt aft, and I'll put a leg or a caster back there for it to sit on. 

 

I found some 9.5 inch cart wheels online and ordered them, and I have most of the rest I'll need to make this thing.

Edited October 10, 2016 by JerryTodd

[capnharv2]

Jerry,

 

I'm no expert on trailers (boat or otherwise), but I would feel better with 2 supports per side. I worry that hitting a bump or hole while pulling it in a crosswind could cause it to jump and twist off the trailer.

 

Just a thought . . .

 

Thanks,

 

Harvey

[JerryTodd]

With that 42 pound ballast torpedo clutched in the U channel at the bottom, I don't think there's gonna be any twisting going on.  But making the supports higher, so I can see them when the cart's submerged might help things out a bit.

[JerryTodd]

I began cutting my cart's component's from the bed frame material wearing out my only two, already used, metal cutting blades.

 

 

I keep a lot of pictures of other's models that I like and shows things that help me with my models, things like that.  Among them are pictures are Brian Clark's HMS Killingworth, an 1840's British brig in 1:24 scale.  Looking through some pictures for something else I came across some showing Brian's launching cart.

His is basically the same principle as what I came up with, so there is at least proven precedent for what I'm doing. 

 

He also has a little car trailer the model, cart-and-all, can roll up into;

 

 

I've had this dream of a box trailer I could stow and transport two models in, side-by-side, fully rigged and ready to sail...

Edited October 12, 2016 by JerryTodd

[JerryTodd]

I could only afford one blade and despite it's claim to cut through steel up to 5/16" thick, this 1/8" thick steel made quick work of it.

I managed to cut the cross-bar before it gave up the ghost. I drilled the bolt-holes and found some cable clamps to use as u-bolts for the axle. Drilled the axle for cotter pins and slapped together what I've got so far. I was going to mount short pieces of angle at either end to maintain spacing, but I may just use some wood blocks instead of angle-iron.

The end on the ground is the back/stern end. This way I'll need to push down on the handle to move the cart, instead of lifting it.  I'm a bit surprised the neighbors didn't call the cops thinking I was building a cannon.

 

I have a wood closet pole for the handle, but haven't determined yet how I'll attach it to the cart. I want it removable. I'm thinking a wood block with a hole for the handle, and one for a pin to go through to hold that handle in place. That seems simple enough.

On the wheels I think I'll go with hitch pins instead of cotter pins, then I can pop off the wheels easily without tools and it'll take up less space in the car.

Edited October 8, 2016 by JerryTodd

[yancovitch]

super...looks great......

[JerryTodd]

Braced the axle with some 3/4" wide metal I had laying about, and used bits of 2x4 to block the ends and make a receiver for the handle.  The handle is a 1-1/4" diameter fir closet rod with a 3/4" x 9-3/4" t-handle.

 

 

Since Mac's bare hull is much easier to move around, I placed it on the ballast tube to get an idea of how this would look...

 

I also took some measurements and made my 3D model more accurate so I could use it to figure out the side supports...  I think some 3/4" thick pieces bolted to the axle support will work.  I'll put a cross-piece with some padding at the top of them, and that should work out pretty well.

 

In the model you can see the block the handle goes into was too tall, and I chopped it off so the hull would clear it.  The actually makes the hole for the handle lower, which I can't do on the real one, so I have to cut off some at the bottom and the top of those blocks.  If I can't do that, I'll make a new set-up with hole for the handle underneath the channel instead of above it.

 

Hmmm, maybe I can just go with one of these?  I'd have to shave the end of the pole down to 1", but I think this could work, and it's adjustable!

Edited October 10, 2016 by JerryTodd

[mtaylor]

Nice going on the cart, Jerry.  Looking at it, one wouldn't think it was done on a budget.  I never considered how heavy your ships would be when you started them but it's an eye-opener.

[John Allen]

Braced the axle with some 3/4" wide metal I had laying about, and used bits of 2x4 to block the ends and make a receiver for the handle.  The handle is a 1-1/4" diameter fir closet rod with a 3/4" x 9-3/4" t-handle.

cart20161008g.jpg

 

cart20161008h.jpg

 

Since Mac's bare hull is much easier to move around, I placed it on the ballast tube to get an idea of how this would look...

cart20161008c.jpg

 

I also took some measurements and made my 3D model more accurate so I could use it to figure out the side supports...  I think some 3/4" thick pieces bolted to the axle support will work.  I'll put a cross-piece with some padding at the top of them, and that should work out pretty well.

 

In the model you can see the block the handle goes into was too tall, and I chopped it off so the hull would clear it.  The actually makes the hole for the handle lower, which I can't do on the real one, so I have to cut off some at the bottom and the top of those blocks.  If I can't do that, I'll make a new set-up with hole for the handle underneath the channel instead of above it.

cart3.jpg

 

Hmmm, maybe I can just go with one of these?  I'd have to shave the end of the pole down to 1", but I think this could work, and it's adjustable!

flag_pole_bracket.jpeg

Jerry,

 

Would a wheel off of a moving dolly that turns 360 degrees help stabilize the back of the trailer and distribute the weight more evenly?

[JerryTodd]

Hey John.  My first concern with putting a caster on the back was dunking it in the water - all those little bearings and stuff would have me spraying WD-40 till everyone died of the fumes.  The wood blocks also act a bit like tail-skids, so it's not as likely to move when I sit it somewhere, that somewhere very likely to be inclined to some degree.  The thing is intended to be a little tail-heavy, so when I park it in the drink to put the model on, the back end isn't sitting up waiting to hole the boat, but instead is sitting down and being a nice inviting ramp (that stays put).

 

I've stood my 260 pounds on it, walked it from end to end like a teeter-totter, and it hardly flexes.  It weighs about 20 pounds by itself, Constellation with her ballast weighs about 100 pounds, displacement calculations put her at 98 (I plan to get a more accurate measurement when I go to move her onto the cart).  Weight will be an issue if the ground where I'm launching is soft, cause these narrow wheels will tend to sink in.  The places I intend to launch her are firm or concrete boat-ramps, so I'm not too concerned there.  If I find some fatter wheels, like those on the back of a tricycle, I will swap them out.

 

I updated the 3D model to get some idea of the side supports.  Here it is with a preliminary idea of those, and the flag-pole bracket for a handle-holder.  This model is now properly and more accurately scaled.

 

The rods that hold the ballast to the model stick out of the keel about 5/8" and set into the couplings inserted into the ballast tube a bit like aligning pins.  Because of this, I can sit the ballast on the cart, then sit the model on the ballast and thread the rods in without the model trying to fall off the ballast; ie: I won't need additional bracing for the hull on the cart.  Being able to attach and separate the model from 42 pounds of ballast relatively easily is a huge help - and the easier it is to get her to, into, and out of the water - the more likely and more often she'll be sailed.

Edited October 10, 2016 by JerryTodd

[JerryTodd]

A note on launching carts....

For a working model, how you transport it, get it over to, into, and out of the water is as much a part of the model as hull, rig, and controls.  The more work taking your model out to sail is, the more difficult it is, the more likely you'll just not want to fight that battle again, and your model won't get sailed.
 

I developed my idea from the trials and tribulations of other large model sailors I know; two in particular.  My conclusions and subsequent design I think are confirmed by Brian Clark's Killingworth, shown previously, which he built back in 1999-2000.

 

Ray had the 1:24 scale HMS Surprise kit from SC&H which is about the same size as my Constellation, a little taller.

He used a hand-truck based system that came with the kit.  The wood cradle is large and bulky to support the 90+ pound model cantilevered off the cart as it is.  The upright portion of the cart also has a lot of potential to hit and damage the rig, especially during retrieval of the model.

Ray also told me the inflated tires and wood cradle made the cart want to float, preventing him from just parking it and bringing the boat to it - he had to hold onto the cart all the time in the water or it would fall over.

 

 

Dan has the SC&H Grasshopper kit, also 1:24 scale; which he's modded to be the US brig Syren.  He too started with the kit's supplied hand-truck, the same as the Surprise kit, with all the same issues.  Note how leaning the cart back puts him IN the rigging!

 

Dan modded his hand-truck into a trailer style cart, but the wheels being at the end, it doesn't balance on them as mine does.  I think this will be a factor in the cart's performance.

 

 

 

At a glance, it would seem the hand-truck's main advantage is allowing you to launch at a bulkhead or off a dock - and I considered this, but it's a false assumption.  Access to many floating docks are via a gangway with railings which you won't be able to get an 8 foot long model down sideways.  Then, trying to control lowering a hand-truck like those shown above, down even a one foot bulkhead or dock with a 100 pound model on it, getting the model off the cradle and away, while trying to hang on to the cart and retrieve it - then attempted to get the model back onto the cart as you dangle it off the bulkhead, without knocking the rig to bits...  I'm sure you can imagine the Three Stooges episode this would inspire.  Consider too that I'm after something I can handle alone, as I most likely will be.

[John Allen]

Kudos well thought, and planned to the extreme. I believe after you posted your cart there will be many modelers making copies after viewing the problems on other carts. It appears you made launching and retrieval a much simpler task.

[JerryTodd]

I thought I had one of those flag pole brackets from when I repaired one of the posts on the porch - I did, in fact it's the exact same design as the picture I posted before, and it's perfect for this.  I had to shave 1/8" all round the end of the handle so the 1-1/4" pole would fit into the 1" socket.  I also tied a turk's head at the shoulder and above the t-handle to help against splitting - I can't remember how long it's been since I tied a turks-head - it took a while to remember how..

 

 

 

 

 

I played around with side supports - just cutting some basic posts from treated 3/4" board and holding them on with C-clamps as I figure out what works best.

 

 

[JerryTodd]

Still have to finish the side supports. the first attempt is mounted with C-clamps here - but this looks like it's gonna work. 

 

 

 

[lambsbk]

Looks nice Jerry. Dang, at full sail she should be able to roll herself.

[JerryTodd]

I was thinking I could mount a caster on the back, connect it to the rudder, and sail her down the street. 

[jud]

Cart looks good. One thing I noticed on most of the other carts that you posted was that they used inflatable tires rather than the hard rubber you are using. Those hard tires will not act as shock absorbers and every crack, pebble or rough surface will transfer every jar to your model. I think I would look at some Wheel Barrow replacement wheels that you can buy cheaply at most hardware type outlets.  Nothing says that you would need more than 7 or 8 pounds of pressure in them for that load and you could then use the cart on rough ground without jarring you ship model.

jud

[yancovitch]

will the inflated wheels not float so much, if they are inflated less?

[jud]

Only if there was less displacement. but the wheels, tires and cart weight are enough to keep the wheels on the bottom.

jud

[capnharv2]

Jerry,

 

I'm impressed with the forethought and incorporation of other folks' lessons learned in the building of your launching cart.

 

Harvey

[JerryTodd]

I hand royal blue paint, so much for light blue.  I opted for white on the handle as a safety thing; visibility and all that.

 

[yancovitch]

skookum!

[JerryTodd]

Put the boat back on the cart and added the royals.  Still working on controls before I take her down to the creek and see if all this effort was worth the effort.

 

 

 

[mtaylor]

Looking great, Jerry.  From here.. it all looks worth the effort.

[captainbob]

She's a fine looking ship.  She'll look great in the water.

 

Bob

[JerryTodd]

I hung the courses (with clothespins) after hemming them.

 

While in hemming mode, I did the last two sails in her suit; the main and fore trys'ls.  I burned all the grommets in with a soldering iron since this pic was taken.

 

These sails (courses and trys'ls) will be brailed up as I don't have a good way to control them via RC.  The courses I hope to figure out eventually, but the trys'ls won't be happening.  I'll shake them out for static displays.

 

I want to use the tacks to haul the clews forward as the best control when close-hauled.  The best way to do that is with a trolley system, like a clothesline, with a winch running a continuous loop and the tacks attached to that loop.  The sheets just run through the model from one clew to the other.

 

There's a couple of problems here.  The main and fore sails are controlled separately, so I'd need TWO of these set-ups inside the model, which accents the second problem; space (room, accessibility through hatches, and the spider's web of control lines already in place.  A more compact solution would be a "linear actuator" or basically a threaded rod spun by a motor with the tacks attached to a shuttle that travels on the rod.

Either way, the trolleys or actuators would have to be as long as at least half the length of tack I need to haul, which would probably be around 6 to 10 inches.

The real thing here is, besides adding two more electric motors to the load and dealing with directional control, etc; syncing it with the winches that control the braces for the same mast.

 

Another much simpler way of dealing with the courses, is the "Bentinck-boom," which is simply a yard at the bottom of the sail.  The foot of the courses gets pulled around like the rest of the yards not directly controlled.  Rather than an actual yard, it would be a rod set into the foot of the sail to have the same effect.  This is ok if it's in a pocket and I can remove it easily to clew up the sail when I want to.

 

Another version of this is to use stiff wire or rod made to appear like the clew-lines, that hold out the clews as the boom would.  This seems it would be more difficult to make removable when I want clew up the sail than the boom version would.

 

Soooooooo....

 

I guess I'll wind up going with the "Bentinck-boom" rod in the foot of the sail idea, but I'm not going to worry about it until I get the rope-walk operating and can get down to properly rigging this beast.

Edited November 10, 2016 by JerryTodd

[captainbob]

You have quite an engineering job ahead of you.

 

Bob

[rwiederrich]

Coming along nicely....fun to watch you solve these RC issues.

 

Rob

Edited October 21, 2016 by rwiederrich

[jud]

In the turret of an 8" gun I once worked in, the powder cars lifting powder from the Lower Powder Rooms up to the Upper Powder Room needed a lot of movement, it was done using hydraulics with a short stroke and multiple sheaves, one set of sheaves at the end of the cylinder and another on the end of the piston rod. A short stroke of the piston would cause a very long movement of the cable and move the powder car from the Lower Powder Room up to the Upper Powder Room. Might find a use for such a setup if a long movement of line is needed, could be used to convert a short movement of sheaves into a long line movement.

jud

[JerryTodd]

I've seen several servo hacks designed to have them run continuously, such as you might want for a winch.  If I did this to a pair of cheap servos, I could Y them off the brace winch servos and they should operate together.  This is something I'll experiment with down the road.  Today I dunked sticks in ammonia and wrapped them around a tube to make hoops for the two trys'ls.  While that dried I went to a friends and helped him eat the crabs he caught this morning.

 

26 more hoops like these for the driver

 

It's been running in the 80's here for the past week, temperature-wise; that just broke this evening with rain, wind, and dropping down to 60° (f).  Ready or not, when the these winds blow out, I'm hauling the boat out and putting her in the water.  I want some pictures of her afloat with all her sail's aboard, and I want to test launching and retrieving with the new cart a few times.