Stuart Engineering Lathe by Rik Thistle - FINISHED - late 1800s - 1:12 (est)

[Egilman]

Beautiful job, harkens back to the day when machining was an art form itself...

 

Today the art is being lost, everything is computer driven and is capable of some fantastic things, but still, seeing it done by hand with nothing automatic warms my heart in ways many wouldn't understand...

 

Very well done....

[Roger Pellett]

Beautiful!  I look forward to seeing your steam driven machine shop operate.

Actual outside temperature here this AM was -2 F.

 

Roger

[Rik Thistle]

Egilman, Thanks. Fortunately there are still a lot of home hobbyists practicing this branch of modelling. Cost effective Chinese machinery has helped make the hobby a bit more accessible - I'd still like a large purpose built, brick workshop filled with good quality traditional machinery but we accept what we can manage.

 

Roger, Thank you too. Yes, your location is a tad chillier than mine 😉 .... I hope the winter isn't too bad for you and your folks. But to some extent, it all depends on what we are used to. When I was young, I don't remember a winter without decent snow, sledging, snowball fights etc...but these days British  winter weather is warmer (and windier).

 

Richard

 

 

 

[mtaylor]

I agree with EG 100%.  Your machine work is wonderful to follow and the end result is perfect.

[thibaultron]

Wonderful build!

[Rik Thistle]

Mark, Ron,

 

Thank you.

 

I enjoy doing it and it isn't that different from model wooden ship building...the process is pretty much the same.  And there are plenty of real experts out there for me to collect knowledge and tips from on both variants.

 

I did find that the wood dust was giving me some issues (I'm slightly asthmatic) so that's one of the reasons I've stayed away from ships for the moment.

 

The weather is headed to -5C over the next fortnight so the shed will be off limits .... I do have a card model ship in the stockpile so may look at that over the cold period/winter 🙂

 

Richard

[druxey]

Well done, and excellent explanations of your various processes. I learned quite a bit, so, thank you, Richard. Now, stay warm! The weather forecast is not good.

[Toolmaker]

Hello Richard,

What a fab read that was. Once over the initial shock of thinking I was back in work, I thoroughly enjoyed every post.

I designed and made workholding fixtures for much of my working life, however I never made a 4 jaw chuck!  I have even used 2 jaw chucks and 3 jaw eccentric chucks but still never made my own.

 

You are more than capable and I have little to offer but a couple of things came to mind as I was reading your log.

 

The first was it seemed you had an opportunity to machine 2 sides in one set-up. For instance both faces of the tail stock knee when you were face milling. If that is possible it gives you two faces square and parallel to each other and it is often easier to measure the distance between them. As you know, the issue with clamping castings is to do so without putting any twist or bend into the casting.

 

The second was offering a different route to the gluing of your parts onto mandrels. I have used as little holding force as double sided tape when working to micron tolerances, but only with lightweight al/al or plastic components. Generally I would prefer mechanical means where possible.

Two other options for your parts were a shouldered mandrel slighter shorter than your part with a drilled and tapped hole in the end. Then a flat washer and a cap head screw or bolt to hold the part tight.
Similarly an expanding mandrel. Again drill and tap and add a large countersink to your tapped hole on a shouldered mandrel but leave the holding diameter a little over size. Split the length of the mandrel with a hacksaw with two or more cuts depending on diameter. Take a cap head bolt and machine a chamfer at the head end of the thread, this chamfer matches the countersink in the mandrel and tightening the screw forces the mandrel to expand. When ready for use put the mandrel in your lathe, just nip the screw and finish turn the mandrel for a slide fit on your component. Tighten the screw some more and your part will be rock solid. If the mandrel is shorter than the component you can use this method to face and turn.

 

I apologise for the long winded interruption, it’s just that I get a little excited by this stuff😂

 

Regarding the kit materials, for the none cast items they could supply much nicer free cutting cast iron (not that much more expensive).

 

The issues with the bronze will be down the cutting tool angles. Straight or shallower fluted drills would perform much better, but that’s getting a bit too specialised for the one off beauties you are producing.

 

I shall keep an eye out for your next build.

 

Thank you

Paul

[Rik Thistle]

Paul,

 

Much appreciate the kind words and advice.

 

From Post #4  "...opportunity to machine 2 sides in one set-up."

Is the pic above what you are referring to ... ie the 'blued' sides? Unfortunately the ends are actually sunk a few mm down into the vice so the cutter can't go down there.  If it was something else you meant, fire away 🙂

 

Mandrels - Yes, agree with everything you say. It's just that Supergluing items on to them has now become a 'thing' and it's quick and simple. But true mechanical clamping on mandrels is the proper way to do it. And the part can be released from the mandrel in seconds.

 

Bronze etc- Yes, correct tool cutting angles should be aimed for. I'm still re-learning all that, and sometimes take the quick and dirty solution eg leave a tool that has been ground for Mild Steel (say) in the tool holder.  And yes, the MS that Stuart supplies is generally OK but there are no markings as to what grade it is.  All in all though, for just North of £200 the Stuart Lathe is a nice project.

 

Next project is sitting about 5 feet from me... it's a PM Research Milling Machine  https://www.pmmodelengines.com/shop/machine-tools/machine-models/milling-machine-kit/  No more cast iron! ... this is a mostly Aluminium kit 🙂  It's still zero degrees C in the shed so it will probably be Spring before I get going on it. In the meantime I'm fitting X and Y Digital Read Outs to my mill bed.

 

All the best,

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

[Toolmaker]

Richard,

 

I appreciate your invite to come back. My initial comment was referring to you 5th and 6th photo’s in your first post. I thought with a different set up, you could have avoided the picture 7 step. I hope that makes sense.

 

I have recently (2 years) made a commitment to wooden ship building. Time will tell if that’s going to be a good choice. Like you, sanding can effect my asthma.

 

Talking about gluing parts, it reminds me how we used to hold glass when machining optics. It was often done by placing the material on a bed of melted wax, which was then left to set before cutting or polishing.

 

I’m not sure if you have tried it, but it can help to have a small carborundum stone handy and just take the sharp edge off your hss tools. It seems counterproductive but in effect you are just putting a tiny radius at the tool point. Use it to rub any built up edge from the top of the tool every so often also
 

That dro is going to be a game changer, no more remembering turns of handles and much less anti backlash considerations. You’ll be wanting power feed next!

 

keep up the great work

thank you

Paul.

[Rik Thistle]

Paul,

 

OK, got it.

Yes, now why didn't I machine both those faces whist clamped in that position?.... good question. ..'not sure' is the answer. So next time 'yes'. I think I'd add extra clamping though...in the pic the left side is butted up against the vice to stop the part rotating etc.

 

I've got a couple of diamond stones that I use to take the edge of tool tips....but I'm finding they wear kinda quickly. I do have a couple of carborundum stones somewhere 'safe'...need to locate them.

 

Yes, the X & Y DROs will make a big difference. The tumblers on the handwheels have (IIRC) 80x metric increments for one revolution which can lead to confusion if I'm thinking in Inches that day. The tumblers can also slip slightly out of position.  I fitted a Z axis DRO last year and that made a huge improvement in accuracy, speed, and much fewer mental calculations.

 

I've built 2 1/2 model wooden ships so far, but took a sabatical once I saw the Flirt rigging coming over the horizon + slight concerns about wood dust. I will return to it.

 

I'm enjoying the chat so any advice/inputs more than welcome.

 

As I said, I hope to start on the model milling machine in two or three months. Joe Pie has already build a superb PMR shaping machine that I have been studying for tips. Shaping machines are one of the unsung heroes of the workshop.

 

Regards,

 

Richard

[Toolmaker]

Richard,

 

RE; Your picture in post 69

 

One way to accomplish those two sides during that set-up would be to substitute your steel vice jaws for al/al ones. Make them the same as the steel ones but 10mm higher. Screw them on the same, close them up and machine the top in a castellated manner to retain an “up” section a little narrower than your casting. Likely in this instance, for a one-off, it would be seen as not worth the effort. That said, it’s the concept of using soft jaws for milling that I was highlighting. If you have such a set of soft jaws it becomes easy to hold round thin workpieces for instance.

You just close the jaws against a shim, bore/slot drill to suit your component diameter. Open vice, remove shim, place workpiece, close vice. Your vice becomes akin to a full form 2 jaw chuck. Harder to describe than show as usual and due thought should be employed with all set ups. There are numerous ways to approach most machining jobs and this is just another alternative when conditions suit.

 

As for shaping machines, I detect some nostalgia from you. For me, I was taught to use one during my apprenticeship but then haven’t  seen or used another for the past 45 years.

 

Thank you.

Paul

[wefalck]

I happen to have an Adept No. 1 hand-shaper - but admittedly rarely use it ...

[Rik Thistle]

Paul,

 

Keep 'em coming 😉

 

From above, the Tailstock slopes away at both sides....thinking....ah, OK.... the soft jaws would clamp the long straight sides but the castellated  jaws would be slightly shorter than the Tailstock long sides.... giving the end mill access to the Tailstock ends.

 

I don't have soft jaws but could make some. As always, it a question of getting the right result with minimum effort. As I improve I will be more prepared to make jigs and fixtures.

 

When I did my crash course 'apprenticeship', and later with full access to the R&D workshop, the shaping machine was in use most days.... we had 4 or 5 lathes of various sizes, 3 milling machines, grinders, welding, brazing etc etc ...all the kind of machinery required to make prototypes. It was a great place to work. I was initially in charge of the R&D D.O. later progressing to senior engineer ..... then off elsewhere .... including F&G in Koln ...which Wefalck may recognise.

 

Wefalck, that hand shaper looks very neat... http://www.lathes.co.uk/adeptshaper/page2.html

 

Regards,

 

Richard

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Rik Thistle

[Toolmaker]

Richard,

 

I must add that any sort of soft jaw, whether in a lathe or on a milling machine would only be used to hold on an already machined surfaces. It’s not a way to grip hard, more to grip accurately without distortion or damage.

 

With the advent of multi axis cnc machines it is now ideal to do as much work in one hit as possible helping to maintain accuracy between planes. 

 

Back to shapers, whilst working in Bremen on the European Spacelab, I did see an enormous planer which is similar to a shaper but where the work table moves and the tool remains in a fixed position. I was roughing out the beds at a large lathe manufacturer. That little shaper you quoted look’s loverly when made well.

 

Cheers

Paul