Standing rigging color preference and historical musings

[Chuck]

Hello folks.

 

As some of you know,  I am supplying scale rope in tan and in black.  I am not the biggest fan of using a deep black rope but I know many of you prefer it.   When I ordered my Linen line to make up the rope I also ordered some of their dark Gray/Brown color.   My original though was to also supply it in this color for folks like me who prefer a lighter shade for the standing rigging.  It is easier to see the lay of the rope.  Because it takes so much time to make it...I wanted ask everyone if there is indeed a large enough group that prefers the standing rigging as a dark gray or even deep brown.  I prefer the grayish tone as shown.  I figured I would ask before I spend too much time on it.

 

Anyway...here is a photo of my gray/brown standing rigging next to my black and tan examples.

 

Is this something that would be desired??   If not,  I will just keep it for my own personal use.  It is my opinion that the actual standing rigging was a dark charcoal color after being exposed to the elements and wasnt a deep black.   The brown linen color is OK too but I dont like it as much so it is not pictured.  Its just not dark enough for my taste and looks too even.  The color is slightly darker than it appears in the photo...but I had to pump up the brightness or the black rope would have looked like a black shadow.  I would appreciate  your thoughts on the historical nature of the color of tarred rope as well as your impression of the rope shown.  Spending a week stocking up on it when no one will want it would be a waste.  Thanks in advance   

 

 

[Mahuna]

Hi Chuck:

 

I prefer the grey or a warm black (black that leans towards a brownish tint).  Of the two choices you show for standing rigging I agree with you that the grey looks better.  I've been dyeing rope using a dark walnut water based wood dye with some blue-black ink in it to darken it - it came out grey with a hint of brown - I like it.

 

Frank

[Jay 1]

Chuck, I also like the gray line. If there's enough demand and you decide to stock it, I'll purchase some for my next build when the line is available.

 

Thanks,

Jay

[Chuck Seiler]

Chuck

    I am probably a bad source for rigging interest, since once I get to the rigging stage...progress slows to a crawl. 

 

    Like Frank, I like a black with a brown tint, to simulate old pine tar.  I have used black rigging dipped in sepia ink and natural linen dipped in black india ink, then sepia ink.  I like the look, but am not sure how long it will last.  Brown waterbased wood dye intrigues me.

 

   Back on topic.  The dark grey looks interesting but I would like to see its effect as rigging on a model rather than coiled up. 

 

Chuck

[Chuck Seiler]

Oh, I meant to include...If I could purchase a coil or two of the grey so I could test coloration and work into my PHILADELPHIA (still about a month from rigging) that would be great.  Could you make some without having to go full production?

 

CHuck

[Chuck]

Thanks guys...Chuck,  I could absolutely make some.  You just need to tell me what size you need when you get to that point.

 

Then there are the folks who just use the tan color for everything.  That looks good too.

 

 

 

And here is an image recently I believe of the Frigate constitution.   Its more gray than brown.  I have been looking for a model done with brown standing rigging that is very dark but I havent seen too many.  Most are jet black and that is tough to see the lay of the rope like it is shown below.

 

 

It all quite confusing and hard to to choose.   I cant wait to test out both on a model and see which I prefer.

 

Chuck

[Ulises Victoria]

I have never been a fan of black black colors. Real life things are seldom black black. My favorite black paint color is one called "weathered black" by Floquil (unfortunately this will not be available anymore as Floquil is now dead) This was a grayish black which looked gorgeous in things like black ship hulls or car/airplane tires. For my standing rigging I am now using a very dark brown color, but that gray you show looks very nice.

[Chuck]

This would be ideal and I am working hard to get there.   Contemporary rigging color...It is not very brown or too black.   Its not too gray and somewhere in between.

 

Chuck

 

[Jim Lad]

Chuck,

 

I think your grey would be perfect for wire ropes (if laid up right handed).

 

I've been trying to remember to colour of the marline that we used to use when I was at sea - a light cord impregnated with Stockholm tar.  I think it was about Winsor-Newton's burnt umber or possibly Vandyke brown, if that's any help.

 

John

[Chuck]

Thats what I was shooting for.  The image of my rope is not a good photo...to bright.  My gray charcoal looking rope is actually pretty darn close.   I just cant take a picture of it to show.  I will try wwhen I get back from vacation next week.

 

Chuck

[druxey]

How does this color combination of lines on a present-day model strike you?

[Jaxboat]

The "tar" that was used on sailing ship line came from pine trees. In fact, the industry is still called "Naval Stores" today. The brown black color, people have mentioned is a good description of what it looks like. It certainly isn't jet black like a piece of black thread. It also isn't light stable it must have started degrading instantly after being coated onto the rigging.

Best

Jaxboat

Edited August 25, 2013 by Jaxboat

[freewheelinguy]

I would think most will prefer the dark gray and not the black.  I know, if I were purchasing the gray would be my choice.

 

Ropes look awesome.

[dafi]

Interesting topic Chuck and very much up to the expectations of the builder respectively the beholder.

 

Historically I do believe the running rigging was a shade of grey as all natural hemp ropes I saw were almost without a tint*.

 

The black I do strongly believe depended upon the tar used. I see no real black as we know it today. First the tint of the coloring is not to be compared to modern products. Then only the elements alone will soon make color disappear resulting in darker shades of grey. My question here is how much the color of the tarred rigging had a ton of brown in it. Many tar products have this brownish soul, especially if deluted. 

 

Then there is the expectations of the classical model making that opposes this. As much as we prefere quality wood with warm tones, many prefer real black standing rigging and light brown for the running one.

 

What perhaps is misleading the eye is that the rigging in real life very much reflects the ambient light. So with sunlight the rigging gets the warmish tone that stays in our minds ...

 

So I can´t tell which color to take, my personal preference is gray for the running rigging and a very very dark brown for the standing rigging but as it is known, I even do put rust of the iron fittings onto my models ;-)

 

Cheers, Daniel

[Chuck]

Thank you guys for the feedback.  Especially all of you who contacted me offline to discuss this topic.  I have now created some tests with a Brownish...very dark.....rope.   After living with both the gray rope as posted in the first photo and the new dark brown below (bottom two photos).  I think I now prefer this darker brown.  Once again its darker than the photos show as I had to pump up the brightness so you could see the lay of the black rope.

 

But I think this color is warmer and more akin to what I have seen on contemporary models although I change my mind a lot.  I will start producing this dark brown Rope this weekend.  Thank you very much guys...I couldnt do it without your input.  And thank you to all the folks who sent me samples to look at as well.  It is crazy to think how much thought there is in deciding what shade of brown or gray to use.  Seems a bit anal but I guess we are all a bit crazy like that.  The three images are of .045 rope by the way...1.14mm

 

If you look at the close up of each rope coil you will see how amazing this cotton linen blend is.  Absolutely no fuzz.  Its amazing stuff.  

 

Chuck

 

 

 

[Jim Lad]

Chuck,

 

In the last photo, the light coloured line looks a perfect match for slightly worn Manilla rope and the dark one looks great for Stockholm tarred standing rigging.

 

Do you makes right hand rope, or only left handed?

 

John

[Chuck]

Thanks guys.

 

Right now only left handed...probably for the foreseeable future.  I have too many other irons in the fire.   Stern lantern will be available in just a few weeks.

 

Brian...I will be adding the brown color first.  But if you need or want the gray version instead.  I can make up some to order for you separately.  You just need to tell me what sizes and how many packs.   As far as the cannon carriages are concerned,  the best way to figure out the size is to download the PDf on the cannon page.  Measure it because its to scale.  It shows both sizes.  Print it out on stiff card and place them on your model to see how they would fit before buying them.  Its the only sure way to tell.

 

Chuck

[JerryTodd]

From the smell of them, I thought the old model's rigging was tarred just like their prototypical counterparts - they always smell like Stockholm tar to me.

[Pathfinder]

Being a re-enactor of the 1756-1800 period,all my camping is done using only items available to folks in that time period. My hemp rope is a grey color after 1 season of use. 

 

I use dark brown for my standing rigging and a grey/tan for running rigging. No pic's yet,but I like the look.

[qwerty2008]

In Patrick O'Brian's Aubry/Maturin Series (either the 2nd or 3rd book) O'Brian describes the frigate Lively as having gleaming white (untarred) manila rope for both standing and running rigging. Is this correct? did I misinterpret the book? if it is correct then that would mean on some models one could use white rope for both running and standing rigging wile still being historically correct.

 

Lextin.

Edited October 4, 2013 by qwerty2008

[isali]

IMHO. The grey adds some life and depth to the build. The black is almost too "perfect" or sanitary

 

Ira

[Ulises Victoria]

I am using dark brown in my Vasa, but I think I will use gray in my next Royal Louis build. I like it better.

[md1400cs]

Chuck,

 

I don't know enough to comment, however you are on my list when its time to order rope. After seeing so many awesome builds here, I know that the kit provided ropes just won't do. Glad to be of future support.

 

PS: Your new lanterns look awesome, but wrong century for my current build (:-(

 

R/   Michael

[Chuck]

Thanks.  I will eventually carry both the gray and the brown in addition to the black.  It seems as though it is a personal preference thing.   Thats fine with me.    Anyone who wishes something that they dont see.  Dont hesitate to contact me.

 

Chuck

[pirozzi]

Thanks.  I will eventually carry both the gray and the brown in addition to the black.  It seems as though it is a personal preference thing.   Thats fine with me.    Anyone who wishes something that they dont see.  Dont hesitate to contact me.

 

Chuck

 

Hi Chuck,

I like the dark brown. What sizes do you supply and how would I purchase some when I need it. I am almost finished with my currect build and would like to use your rope for my next.

 

Thanks,

Vince P.

[Chuck]

Go to my site...

 

http://www.syrenshipmodelcompany.com/miniature-rope.php

 

 

Here you will see all of the sizes.

 

Thanks

[pirozzi]

Go to my site...

 

http://www.syrenshipmodelcompany.com/miniature-rope.php

 

 

Here you will see all of the sizes.

 

Thanks

Thank you...

[mel_drew]

In Patrick O'Brian's Aubry/Maturin Series (either the 2nd or 3rd book) O'Brian describes the frigate Lively as having gleaming white (untarred) manila rope for both standing and running rigging. Is this correct? did I misinterpret the book? if it is correct then that would mean on some models one could use white rope for both running and standing rigging wile still being historically correct.

 

Lextin.

Interesting. I remember the phrase (in "Post Captain"), but that was before I took much interest in the minutiae of naval practise. A number of online references seem to suggest that tarring is required on hemp for protection against rot, but not on manila.

 

So......

 

I'm guessing that a model with all-white rigging would be criticised, even though it seems to be permissible. 

[JPett]

Ahoy Chuck

 

I believe what you are seeing is that when modeling at smaller scales reducing contrast is key to producing a more realistic effect. Muting colors is commonly  used by plastic modelers and I see no reason why it would not apply to wooden ships.

[jud]

I have seen white lead used on cables, it might work on fiber lines used as shroud. They would not be subject to the movement and stresses of running rigging. How far back were steel cables used for shrouds?

jud