1/24th Scale Wooden Barrels - Where from?

[No Idea]

Hi 

 

Can anyone help?  I'm being completely lazy here and I don't mind admitting it but I would like some 1/24th scale wooden barrels for my build.

 

I don't own a lathe and for the amount of use it would get its really not worth me buying one.  In fact I don't fancy making the barrels at all 🤣

 

So does anyone know where I could purchase some good quality 1/24th wooden barrels  - and they need to be made of wood.

 

I can't find any but I'm sure that someone will know the answer on here.  I live in the UK and don't mind importing them but I do need good quality ones.  Its not mega important as I can easily leave the hold empty but I think they may add something to the finished build.

 

Cheers Mark

[allanyed]

Hi Mark,

What type/size of barrel/cask and what era?  Gunpowder, meat, water, etc?  

Allan

[Toolmaker]

I was probably the only person wondering why you wanted wooden cannon barrels! duh!

[Keith Black]

 Pick you poison or you can try Cornwall Model Boats, they don't give scale, only size.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=1%2F24+scale+wooden+barrels&client=safari&rls=en&ei=n1fZY9uAKs-uqtsP05e08AQ&ved=0ahUKEwibzKGKsvL8AhVPl2oFHdMLDU4Q4dUDCA8&oq=1%2F24+scale+wooden+barrels&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQDDIHCAAQHhDxBDIFCAAQhgMyBQgAEIYDOgoIABBHENYEELADOgUIABCiBDoKCAAQ8QQQHhCiBDoJCAAQBxAeEPEESgQIQRgASgQIRhgAULMRWO4dYJQ1aAFwAXgAgAFViAHAApIBATSYAQCgAQHIAQTAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#ip=1

[No Idea]

33 minutes ago, allanyed said:

Hi Mark,

What type/size of barrel/cask and what era?  Gunpowder, meat, water, etc?  

Allan

Hi Allan - I've just read my post back to myself and its one of those posts where I assumed everyone had the same conversation as me in my head 🤣

 

You are quite correct to ask this and I should have said - I'm looking for gunpowder barrels!  I must apologise to everyone who isn't physic and for those that are - well you know 🤣

15 minutes ago, Toolmaker said:

I was probably the only person wondering why you wanted wooden cannon barrels! duh!

No mate you wasn't - Its my lack of explanation!  You can see why I drive a truck for a living and not a mega manager 🤣  I have these conversations with myself and just expect everyone else just to keep up!

[No Idea]

4 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

 Pick you poison or you can try Cornwall Model Boats, they don't give scale, only size.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=1%2F24+scale+wooden+barrels&client=safari&rls=en&ei=n1fZY9uAKs-uqtsP05e08AQ&ved=0ahUKEwibzKGKsvL8AhVPl2oFHdMLDU4Q4dUDCA8&oq=1%2F24+scale+wooden+barrels&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQDDIHCAAQHhDxBDIFCAAQhgMyBQgAEIYDOgoIABBHENYEELADOgUIABCiBDoKCAAQ8QQQHhCiBDoJCAAQBxAeEPEESgQIQRgASgQIRhgAULMRWO4dYJQ1aAFwAXgAgAFViAHAApIBATSYAQCgAQHIAQTAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#ip=1

Hi Keith what a great find and thanks very much for looking for me!  Ok maths was never my thing so does anyone know what size a 1/24th gunpowder barrel should be?  I'm clueless so any help would be great.

[Toolmaker]

You won’t be wanting these then Mark;

 

https://www.hobbies.co.uk/12-x-wooden-cannons-15mm

[Keith Black]

 1:24 = 12.70 mm per foot. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scale_model_sizes

[Keith Black]

2 minutes ago, Toolmaker said:

You won’t be wanting these then Mark;

 Too funny! 🤣

[No Idea]

47 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

 Too funny! 🤣

Trucks and ships its all the same - if its on its gone 🤣

[No Idea]

49 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

 1:24 = 12.70 mm per foot. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scale_model_sizes

Cheers Keith but any idea of how big a barrel is to convert it?  I honestly have no idea (get your jokes in) at all!

[No Idea]

54 minutes ago, Toolmaker said:

You won’t be wanting these then Mark;

 

https://www.hobbies.co.uk/12-x-wooden-cannons-15mm

I dunno - buy a Jolly Roger and I can carry anything.  Wooden cannon barrels there's something just wrong with that 🤣  Mate where do you find this stuff this cracked me up 🤣

[Keith Black]

Welp, here's everything you ever wanted to know about barrels.......I hope. 

 

 

[bruce d]

Mark, have you tried searching 'g scale barrel' on Ebay? Quite a few hits.

[Keith Black]

  Something to note......gunpowder cask/barrels were made without metal hoops. I found the below whilst looking about in Google Land.

 

 "The ends of the cask are then leveled off and a groove cut into the inside edge to receive the barrel heads-the round ends that close up the casks. Almost all 18th and 19th century barrels were finished off by binding them together with wooden hoops, usually made from split hickory, oak, or ash saplings."

 

 To be accurate gunpowder cask/barrels should be painted all wood colors, the hoops should not be painted black, IMHO. 

[Keith Black]

2 minutes ago, bruce d said:

have you tried searching 'g scale barrel' on Ebay? Quite a few hits.

 Bruce, they aren't accurate because the hoops indicate they are made from metal. See my two post that bracket your reply.  

[druxey]

Further to Keith; no metal on gunpowder barrels! They were bound using withy, a kind of flexible willow cane.

[No Idea]

Keith  / Bruce

 

Thanks both for the really good information  - I did not know that gunpowder barrels had wooden hoops.  Everyday is a school day!

 

I was hoping to be lazy and just buy some off the shelf wooden barrels but you have made me see that as per usual there's a lot more to it than that.

 

I need to try and find out more as I would rather have an empty hold than something that is completely incorrect.

 

Can't thank you both enough for your input here - cheers lads 😀

[No Idea]

Just now, druxey said:

Further to Keith; no metal on gunpowder barrels! They were bound using withy, a kind of flexible willow cane.

Thanks druxey - As above I really need to do some proper research and make a decision.  I guess when you think about it - no metal = no sparks.  I had not even considered this until tonight given the information you guys have supplied.  I don't think I'll be getting a job as an armorer any time soon and the crews happy about that!

[allanyed]

2 hours ago, No Idea said:

I've just read my post back to myself and its one of those posts where I assumed everyone had the same conversation as me in my head

Funniest thing posted here (other than the Jokes forum) in a long time.   Thanks for the smile.

 

Druxey, I have not doubt whatsoever that withy was the standard.  But, why not copper or lead.   Cost?? 

 

Thanks

 

Allan

[No Idea]

27 minutes ago, allanyed said:

Funniest thing posted here (other than the Jokes forum) in a long time.   Thanks for the smile.

 

Druxey, I have not doubt whatsoever that withy was the standard.  But, why not copper or lead.   Cost?? 

 

Thanks

 

Allan

Allan you'll probably find that there was a guild of withy men that held the sole job of wrapping gunpowder barrels which was only allowed by the King!

 

I only wanted some barrels and look what I've started 🤣 

[bruce d]

1 hour ago, Keith Black said:

 Bruce, they aren't accurate because the hoops indicate they are made from metal. See my two post that bracket your reply.  

Correct. I suppose it would have helped if I had read post#5.

🤐

[Keith Black]

 While we're here.......... to accurately depict a gunpowder cask, should the withy hoops be a different color than the staves? A tad lighter in color? The below is the only image I could find of a barrel with withy (?) hoops but it's highly weathered. 

 

 If all barrels up until the 19th century were made with wooden hoops then unfortunately, there are scads of models portrayed with inaccurate barrels and cask. Keeping up with historical accuracy can be a bugger.  

 

 I'd say this could be an opportunity for 3D resin model makers to introduce a new line of "accurate" barrels and cask. 

 

[Keith Black]

1 hour ago, No Idea said:

I only wanted some barrels and look what I've started 🤣

 Glad that you did, I learned something. 

[Jaager]

Should you not be able to find ready made casks and have to fabricate them:

Building them over a form would mean having to turn only one master core.

A solid core form would not work - it cannot be removed.

The stock to be turned could be a five piece Jenga type assembly - four outer pieces and a square center piece.

The form can be turned at the end of a longer five piece stick.  Dowels, pins, or finish nails used to keep everything in one piece.

The turning may require gluing the five with a glue that can be reversed.  PVA - Iso-OH  or hide glue - hot ethanol  or maybe Duco - acetone.

Saran Wrap.

After the staves are in place and bound by the hoops, the square center of the form can be pulled out.

The two opposing outer sections that are the same width as the core, be moved into the center and pulled out.

Then the last two popped lose and pulled out.

The staves can be paper or 3x5 card material.

 

A power drill makes for a low cost lathe, but they do not come with 4 jaw chucks, so holding the square stock would take some work.

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Jaager

[No Idea]

20 hours ago, Jaager said:

Should you not be able to find ready made casks and have to fabricate them:

Building them over a form would only mean having to turn only one master core.

A solid core form would not work - it cannot be removed.

The stock to be turned could be a five piece Jenga type assembly - four outer pieces and a square center piece.

The form can be turned at the end of a longer five piece stick.  Dowels, pins, or finish nails used to keep everything in one piece.

The turning may require gluing the five with a glue that can be reversed.  PVA - Iso-OH  or hide glue - hot ethanol  or maybe Duco - acetone.

Saran Wrap.

After the staves are in place and bound by the hoops, the square center of the form can be pulled out.

The two opposing outer sections that are the same width as the core, be moved into the center and pulled out.

Then the last two popped lose and pulled out.

The staves can be paper or 3x5 card material.

 

A power drill makes for a low cost lathe, but they do not come with 4 jaw chucks, so holding the square stock would take some work.

 

You know what I've thought about this (I do sometimes) and this is genius  - Jaager this would work so well for such a difficult shape and as you say you would only need to make one master.

 

I'm not going to do it as its a project in itself but what a very clever solution - cheers!

[allanyed]

I am away from my books so did some digging on the net regarding gun powder barrel dimensions.   Was there a standard?  The only thing I found so far is from The British Powder Cask by Len Heidenbrecht, 1998 

The exact dimensions of the powder barrels is a bit of a problem, for in 1779 it is reported as 16" at the bulge and 30" to 32" long, making a tall thin cask. This seems to change by 1813 as it is described as 17.36" at the bilge and 21.62" in height.   

The author does not state his source in the article I found on-line.

 

IF this is correct, at 1:24 the barrel is only a little over 5/8" maximum diameter. A 1:24 scale barrel surely can be done, and it sounds like Jaager's description should work.  And, I will probably want to give this a try down the road.   But, for others why not chuck a piece of dowel in a lathe or drill and file/sand the shape.  The top and bottom can be recessed by carving out a bit of wood and staves can be represented by scribing lines with a scalpel or hobby knife blade.

 

Any thoughts out there on what easily acquired wood or other material would work to represent the withy?   I am thinking slivers of bamboo, but holly that is soaked in water is super flexible and might work as well.  Thread or maybe copper wire that is painted a light color might be easier to twist together than wood to represent the sticks of withy.   

Allan

Edited February 1, 2023 by allanyed

[No Idea]

Allan - cheers for that information - so being from England 5/8th is about 15mm in the real world 🤣

 

I really like the look of these little barrels and they are not expensive either.

 

https://www.hobbies.co.uk/walnut-barrels-5-s

 

5 barrels made of walnut for about £3 which I think is about $4?  I know that they would be a bit square in dimension but they may work?  They may be a little short but wow this would save me a whole lot of time.

 

I would make a master as Jaager suggested but its the staves that are the problem - They are not straight pieces of wood they are convex and so many would need to be made.

 

I just know that when the ship is finished no one will see them except for me - When I'm actually retired I'll have a go at this as his solution will defiantly work.

 

As for withy - I reckon some sanded down rope may work to get the fibres sticking out.

 

Cheers Mark

 

 

[Jaager]

Thanks,

 

The general idea has been bouncing in my memory bank for a while.

I first envisioned the general concept as a way to use a Pine mould for a cast hull.

I read a sort of recent posting by someone scratch building a steel ship with a lot of trumblehome - for an RC project. 

A standard single cast plastic (epoxy?) shell would have been ideal for the model, but a solid carved hull form would not work.

The standard carved hull method = layers (lamination) based on WL lines would not work.

My default approach - = layers (sandwiches) based on the Body plans stations would only work if the two sections at the deadflat  were three parts to allow removal. ( Unfortunate, since the carving (shaping/sanding) is so much easier, faster and an easier way to achieve  accuracy . )

But Buttock lines layers would work.  Three lamination would do the job.  The center ( keel profile ) layer easier to extract.

Too bad that I have limited my interest to the core of the wooden era 1650 - 1860.  It would be an interesting experiment.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Jaager

[Chuck]

These Syren mini kit Barrels are 1" tall. ...  and about the correct diameter you need.  Hoops can be painted should you prefer a wood look...if you dont want to make them look like iron.''  They are made from Cedar.  If this meets your criteria.