Senora Fielden 1450 by Ferrus Manus - 1/24 - POB - A realistic interpretation of the Mataro Model

[Ferrus Manus]

It was recommended i make an actual research log for this by @Louie da fly. I am doing research for a Spanish carrack based on the Mataro ship, basically researching for a future scratch-build of a realistic single masted, 60-70 foot long carrack from about 1450 (NOT a votive model). Much deliberation has been done between myself, Louie, and @woodrat. 

 

Stay tuned for more tomfoolery!! 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Ferrus Manus

[Ferrus Manus]

These are the diagrams i have made thus far, in relation to various nautical concepts and design elements of the framing of the vessel: 

 

[Baker]

Good luck

I also had the idea to build this (later...)
Some useful links

 

https://maritiemmuseum.nl/en/stories/masterpieces/mataro-nodell

 

 

[Ferrus Manus]

I checked out both builds of the Amati ship. I intend to make a ship based on the Mataro, however, it will be much thinner and have slightly different lines. 

 

Maybe, at one point, we will both build our scratch-builds together and "borrow" techniques and ideas. My ship will be in either 1/32 or 1/28 scale. Large enough for everything to be easier to work with, combined with the fact that i wanted the model to be about 3 feet long. 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Ferrus Manus

[Louie da fly]

I thought you might like to have some contemporary pictures of carracks to refer to in your build. I've divided them into vessels with a single mast (which I like to call "proto-carracks"), and those with at least two. The hulls seem identical: https://www.pinterest.com.au/lowe1847/proto-carracks/ and   https://www.pinterest.com.au/lowe1847/carracks/

 

Steven

[Ferrus Manus]

This will prove immensely valuable during the build and research. I already looked at the many photos Woodrat posted in his log for the Venetian ship, but this will also be of great use to me. What i plan to do at some point is draw a keel and master frame at scale, likely in Inkscape. I am also working on another build right now, the log for which is about to go up. 

[Ferrus Manus]

I hope Woodrat got to see this vast wealth of knowledge you have amassed. You really get around on Pinterest, don't you? 

[Ferrus Manus]

Where would i be able to view the full Trombetta Manuscript online?

[Ferrus Manus]

...guess not. Are there any other medieval carrack-building manuscripts i can view on the internet? i am sort of looking for a tome equivalent to Matthew Baker's work a century later. 

[Ferrus Manus]

This is a modern interpretation of what the Mataro Carrack likely looked like, were it a real ship. Whereas i intend to build a stockier ship (although not unrealistically fat like the Mataro Model itself) which will have one mast and a somewhat shorter midships, the profile build of my model shall look somewhat like that of the Mataro ship. 

 

One thing this model fails to show is the sometimes ridiculous sheer of the ships' forecastles. Normally i would attribute this to medieval artists' lack of perspective, it seems like almost every contemporary depiction of carracks have a forecastle that looks somewhat like this:

As you can see, all of the carracks (or "proto-carracks" as Steven refers to them) have quite extreme sheers, especially at the forecastles. This is likely accurate to reality, or at least only very slightly exaggerated by medieval artists. We know this because the Mataro Carrack tells a similar story:

This rendition shows a profile view relatively accurate to the real model. However, the model itself is very fat and round, in direct contrast to the relatively realistic aft view depicted in the second illustration. The only thing i believe could be more accurate is if the half-deck walls at the aft were at least perfectly vertical, if not having a slight tumblehome. This was necessary to increase the stability of the ship. The aft view also omits the aft transversal timber, that supports the entirety of the upper works of the ship.

 

Unlike Woodrat's ship, this is a Spanish carrack. The Venetian carrack had a perfectly level main deck in relation to the keel, with no sheer. Only the forecastle had any considerable sheer, and not nearly to the degree of the Spanish ships. I am not qualified to judge this, as he did all his research before and during the build. However, the Mataro carrack's sheer presents itself in the main deck. The deck timbers, which protrude through the hull, can be seen curving up at the fore and aft. The point at which the deck is perfectly level seems to be about two-thirds of the way aft of the hull. 

 

As for the aft platform, i will likely omit it and replace it with awning timbers. I may possibly do the same for the forecastle, at least aft of the bowsprit. Due to the absence of a foremast, an offset bowsprit would not be necessary. 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Ferrus Manus

[Ferrus Manus]

If @Louie da fly had not already compiled this information and did so just for this project, my thanks are immeasurable and i am greatly appreciative. Had he already compiled this beforehand, he is both a madman and a genius, and i know for a fact he helped Woodrat with his build. These extensive Pinterest archives may have been a product of his assistance to the Venetian Carrack build. In any case, i have them now and i am greatly impressed. Most of the photos thereof are of contemporary (or hear-contemporary) depictions of proto-carracks and carracks alike. 

[trippwj]

On 3/12/2023 at 8:19 PM, Ferrus Manus said:

Where would i be able to view the full Trombetta Manuscript online?

To the best of my knowledge there are no copies outside of the British Library, although it is possible that researchers have been allowed to photograph it. Barker (2002) indicates that some of the text was published in the following ( I have not checked into it to see if that may be true)

Albertis, Enrico Alberto d’, Le Costruzioni Navali e l’arte Della Navigazione al Tempo Di Cristoforo Colombo, 1893 <https://echo.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/ECHOdocuView?url=/permanent/shipbuilding/Alber_Le-co_01_1893/index.meta&viewMode=auto&pn=1>

 

There are many references to it, such as this listing:

‘The Trombetta Manuscript – The Nautical Archaeology Digital Library’ <https://shiplib.org/index.php/collections/historical-sources/treatises-on-shipbuilding/the-trombetta-manuscript/> [accessed 27 March 2023]

This post discusses the manuscript briefly:

https://www.doaks.org/newsletter/news-archives/2021/shipwrecks-mathematics-and-manuscripts

Anderson describes it here:

Anderson, R. C., ‘Italian Naval Architecture about 1445’, The Mariner’s Mirror, 11.2 (1925), 135–63 <https://doi.org/10.1080/00253359.1925.10655310>

and

Anderson, R. C., ‘Jal’s “Memoire No. 5” and the Manuscript “Fabbrica Di Galere”’, The Mariner’s Mirror, 31.3 (1945), 160–67 <https://doi.org/10.1080/00253359.1945.10658920>

 

Also see

Rieth, Eric, ‘First Archaeological Evidence of the Mediterranean Whole Moulding Ship Design Method: The Example of the Culip VI Wreck, Spain (XIIIth-XIVth c.)’, in Shipbuilding Practice and Ship Design Methods from the Renaissance to the 18th Century: A Workshop Report, ed. by H Nowacki and Matteo Valleriani, Preprint 245 ([Berlin]: Max-Planck-Institut für Wissenschaftsgeschichte, 2003), pp. 9–16 <https://www.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/Preprints/P245.PDF>

 

A brief side note, the author is actually NOT named Trombetta - he is a "Trumpeter of Modon" Possibly named Zorzi di Nicolò or Giorgio. I recall there being a later Mariner's Mirror note that corrected Anderson, just can't put my fingers on it right now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by trippwj
Corrected some typos

[Louie da fly]

19 hours ago, Ferrus Manus said:

This is a modern interpretation of what the Mataro Carrack likely looked like, were it a real ship.

I personally feel the artist is still too much in the 18th-19th century mindset - somehow the proportions seem wrong. The same problem applies to the early (and to some degree the current) theoretical reconstructions of the Newport ship. Just somehow look wrong. For a better look, check out Carpaccio's carracks

Or better yet, as your ship is Spanish, these ones from the votive table of the parish of San Pedro de Zumaia in Spain https://zumaia.eus/es/noticias/la-tabla-botiva-de-la-parroquia-de-san-pedro-se-muestra-en-la-exposicion-sobre-elcano probably celebrating the victory of ships led by Juan Martínez de Mendaro, in 1475 in the Strait of Gibraltar, against the Portuguese and Genoese armies."The ship on the left bears the arms of Portugal, and the one on the right those of Castile."

and here's a somewhat better detailed version (for some reason it's been mirror imaged - it's actually the ship on the right in the picture above)

There's also the retable of St Ursula by Joan Riexach of Catalonia (now part of Spain, but then a separate kingdom) of 1468

Regarding the forecastle sheer, I believe many painters exaggerated it - I wouldn't make it any more than on the Mataro model.

19 hours ago, Ferrus Manus said:

If @Louie da fly had not already compiled this information and did so just for this project, my thanks are immeasurable and i am greatly appreciative. Had he already compiled this beforehand, he is both a madman and a genius,

'Blush'

 

Steven

Edited March 27, 2023 by Louie da fly

[Ferrus Manus]

I know for a fact that the "classic" age of sail mindset invades and permeates modern research and discussions on medieval ships. I do believe Carpaccio is one of, if not the best source for mediterranean carracks c. 1450-1475-ish. 

[Ferrus Manus]

I did explain that the proportions in the first modern artwork seemed wrong, as the ship would have been shorter and a sheer would be present. The artist makes the error of assuming carracks have the same general proportions of small ships in the 18th century. Note the small forecastle and ridiculously elongated midships/sterncastle half-deck. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Ferrus Manus

[Ferrus Manus]

I have a theory about the sheer on the Mataro Carrack: I believe the shipwright used the Mezza Lune incorrectly. The Master Shipwright is supposed to have the bottom of the sheer at the master frame, and work outwards to the tail frames using the Mezza Lune. I believe the shipwright in charge of the Mataro erroneously put the bottom of the sheer at a tail frame, due to the fact that it's about 2/3 down the line of the ship's hull. I think i might just calculate the sheer by using the Mezza Lune in relation to the bow and stern posts. This would mean a perfectly geometric sheer, without the need for unnecessary ribbands. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Ferrus Manus

[Ferrus Manus]

Another question for the experts: when designing a sternpost and stempost, what angles and circles would be used, and how would one use them? I am at a loss as to how to mathematically design a stem and stern post. Should i do it by eye, on paper, or should i use the shipwright's mathematical approach? 

[Louie da fly]

That's covered in Woodrat's build - first page or two as I recall.

 

Steven

[Ferrus Manus]

I looked at the part where he designs those timbers. A design is shown, but the question that remains is how he got to the conclusions he did, and how i should get to the same, or different conclusions as well.

[Louie da fly]

There's quite a bit of info in the post of 27 Jan 2014 of his build log, but you should probably PM him direct. 

 

Steven

[Ferrus Manus]

@woodrat @Louie da fly

I designed a relatively convincing keel, sternpost, and two different designs for a stempost. I am thinking i will likely lean towards the larger of the two stemposts, as the actual Mataro carrack has a relatively large stempost. I have not yet figured out how i want to go about achieving the sheer on the deck. This will determine the sheer on the forecastle, and thus the arc of the stempost semicircle. 

First, i will have to extend the line that is three inches above the bottom of the keel forward to cut off the arc of the stempost. We will then use the ends of this line as they relate to the keel as the tops of the sheer. The base of the sheer will be a distance, likely half a centimeter, under the middle of the line. The sheer will be extended forward to the outermost part of the stempost, thus creating a convincing sheer. The ribbands will do most of the work between the tail frames and stem/stern for me.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Ferrus Manus

[woodrat]

There is a basic problem with using the Mataro vessel as the basis for a model in that , although built by someone who had knowledge of contemporary shipbuilding techniques, he was building it for reasons that are foreign to us. This vessel was a votive object. That is to say, it was an object of art made to celebrate a religious event: a salvation, a conversion, or a simply as a form of thanksgiving. Maybe it was even commissioned by the catholic church, who knows? The completed work of art was presumably meant to be hung from the rafters of a church and viewed only from certain angles. It was of supreme disinterest to the builder to accurately depict a scaled down replica of an existing ship (something which obsesses us today but did not start to occur till the seventeenth century). What was required was an object which conveyed to the lay person the idea of "ship" without obsessionally replicating it. Consequently, the dimensions of these votive ships were distorted and unreliable, Such votive "ships" were not uncommon in european churches during the middle ages and, it is my belief, such "models" were copied by artists to depict the vessels of the time. A classic example is the series of depictions of carracks produced by the master WA which were clearly drawn from model ships. You have to wait for the Renaissance artists such as Carpaccio who drew from real ships to reduce the distortions.

 

So, by all means use the Mataro as a guide but I would suggest that reproducing an"accurate" reproduction of a carrack is largely guesswork. Even the archaeological remains are fragmentary and to some degree distorted but still give the best information on construction techniques.

 

I'll get out of your way now (homage to John Clarke, sadly missed).

Dick

[Ferrus Manus]

I do recognize this to be true on many levels. I am loosely basing this ship off the Mataro nave, and i am using the carracks of Vittore Carpaccio as a reliable reference. However, it is true that we have no extant paintings or shipwrecks that depict exactly what the Mataro was. Like you, i am doing my very best to make a ship as accurately as possible with what little information exists. You are of much use to me, providing invaluable resources and ideas. Please, stay in my way, at least as much as you can. We are in this together, and you are much more knowledgeable in relation to my favorite type of ship than i am. You are the only thing between me and any number of fatal errors. 

 

The Spanish Nave "Senora Fielden" requires your continued assistance if it is to become a real thing. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Ferrus Manus

[Ferrus Manus]

I have just received a list of tools that will be needed for the construction of a wooden scratch-built ship. My friend from church is an actual carpenter, and his name is Don. The tools he listed were as follows:

A fine tooth pull saw

A miter box to use with the saw

A coping saw for cutting curves

A set of wood files, both flat and round, of various sizes

A set of spring clamps

A sanding block

A set of ratcheting clamps

A mini trim plane for the planing of wood

A hand screw clamp

A portable vice

A set of small wood chisels

 

Many of these tools already exist in my garage, i would just have to dig them out as they have not seen the light of day in a long time. Other things, like a miter box and chisels, i will have to source from any number of hardware stores. My question to the shipwrights here is, are there any tools in this list i will not need? are there any other ship-specific tools not listed that i should invest in? 

[allanyed]

There are a LOT that would help, but get them as you need them.  I would add a scalpel with packages of a few different blades. As with most things you get what you pay for even for this kind of little thing.  You can't go wrong with Swann Morton handles and blades.    Xacto brand blades and holders are an OK substitute for the scalpel, but they use round holders which will roll.  Remember that if it rolls off the work surface it will always fall blade down when heading towards your leg or foot. (I think that is an international law 😀. )   You will need a decent measuring instrument so you might want to get at least a good quality steel rule or better, a digital caliper.

Good luck and welcome to the dark hole of scratch building.

Allan

[Ferrus Manus]

I already have several measuring instruments which i used to create several "proof of concept" plans. Are any of the above tools unnecessary? 

[mtaylor]

Be cautious as hardware stores sell "full-sized" tools normally.  For models they usually need to be smaller except for doing wood processing such as tree trunks.  The best advice has been offered IMO.... buy what you need, when you need it.  

[Ferrus Manus]

The scale of this build is to be around 1/24, and around 3 feet in length. For the keel and frames, i can foresee needing a planer of some sort, a band saw, and a sanding block.

[Louie da fly]

On 4/4/2023 at 10:57 AM, woodrat said:

I'll get out of your way now (homage to John Clarke, sadly missed).

I second that. Wonderful man - I have fond memories of the Clarke and Dawe interviews, and of course "The Games" (not to forget Fred Dagg) 

 

Regarding design information, Brad Loewen has written a worthwhile number of papers on the design parameters of 15th and 16th century ships, particularly Basque ones (the Basques seem to have been at the cutting edge of ship design in this period). One appears at https://journals.lib.unb.ca/index.php/MCR/article/view/17791/22170 and you should be able to find other papers of his at academia.edu - otherwise I have them as PDFs and could email them to you. They relate particularly to the way of determining the change of  frame shape between the master frame and the frames fore and aft of it, and thus the shape of the hull. I'd also like to refer you to my thread on archaeological finds of carracks at https://modelshipworld.com/topic/10190-archaeological-studies-on-carrack-wrecks/#comment-965239

 

 

Regarding tools, your friend's list does sound more like a carpenter's list than a ship modeller's one, but essentially he's pretty much on the money. I get by with a surprisingly small number of tools. Scalpel with No. 11 blades is one of my most useful, you can't have too many clamps, or too many types of them. A coping saw for cutting out frames - though I find I have great trouble cutting at right angles to the timber so I've finally invested in a scroll saw. Sandpaper of various grades, files (especially tiny ones). A drill (drill press for preference, but I've got by for years with a hand-held electric drill). And something to bend planks - in the real world they use steam, but from my own experience and advice from MSW members, it's not so much the water as the heat that does the work - apparently it softens the wood fibres and allows them to stretch. I use a cheap soldering iron held in a small vise and can get (if the wood is thin enough) a circle 32mm in diameter.

 

 

You need to avail yourself of a baseboard to support the model as you work on it and to make sure everything is at right angles (particularly between your keel and your frames - otherwise your ship will come out all twisted). These jigs can be bought but you can make your own - there are several build logs on MSW that show home-made jigs (some people use Lego blocks to ensure everything is square). Kikatinalong's jig at https://modelshipworld.com/topic/21745-caracca-atlantica-by-kikatinalong-mamoli-scale-154/#comment-652159 is an example of the kind of thing - he made a very nice job of what was originally a pretty crappy (and very historically inaccurate) kit. Unfortunately he moved to another State and never finished the model.

 

I hope that helps.

 

Steven

 

[Ferrus Manus]

After looking at both the academic article and the posted log about carrack wrecks, i made a tail frame. The tail frame has the same scale and measurements as the master frame. I hauled down the futtocks and the measurements involved were relatively simple, much more so than that of the master frame. Eventually, i will have to transition from the master frame design to that of the tail frame, or simply make the master frame measurements more and more subtle as we go up and down the length of the ship. The tail frame design will be used for both frames, with each frame in between being doubled and used on the opposite side of the master frame.

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Ferrus Manus