31 foot Longboat 1801 by allanyed - scale 1:96

[iMustBeCrazy]

1 hour ago, Thukydides said:

The only sensible thing I can make of it is that it is a triple block with three independent lines running from it. 

Looks like it.

(please excuse and correct any erroneous terminology)

Line 1, Yellow, Boom Topping lift, needs to go through the top block and return to deck.

Line 2, Red, Gaff uphaul????, also needs to go through the top block and return to deck.

Line 3, Dark Blue, Main Halyard, again needs to go through the top block and return to deck.

So the Green dotted line represents the above three lines.

 

Add in Jib Halyard, Orange.

And Foresail Halyard, Purple, (port side mirroring the Jib Halyard?).

 

And, nice work spotting that horse!

 

[Roger Pellett]

Craig,

 

That’s exactly how I rigged my model.

 

Roger

[iMustBeCrazy]

1 minute ago, Roger Pellett said:

That’s exactly how I rigged my model.

Great minds ........

[Thukydides]

@iMustBeCrazy that is pretty much what I was thinking, just you explained it much better :).

[allanyed]

Hi Roger,

I was wondering about how to keep the block from going too far along the horse.  Your photo makes sense and is in sync with the RMG plan so I will include the retainer rings where the horse turns down .   Again, this scale is not easy.

 

 

[Ferrus Manus]

Oh good luck making blocks that small. 

[allanyed]

Hi Iron Hands

Making the shells is not so bad, but making the sheaves and pins is difficult  ------I'm kidding, I left out the pins...........and the sheaves.  I am digging out my copies of the McCaffery and McNarry books to refresh my memory on how they did theirs on ultra small scales to see if their methods are applicable.

Allan

Edited October 23, 2023 by allanyed

[wefalck]

Somehow, I missed your building log until now 🫢

 

McCaffery stamped oval paper-discs with custom-made punches from paper. He sort of 'faked' the rigging using NiCr-wire. He basically bent the wire to follow the run of the rigging and then stuck the paper-discs onto the pre-arranged wire-rigging.

 

To be honest, I don't think in 1:96 this is an adequate solution, except perhaps for the very smallest blocks. At this scale one can make blocks - depending, of course, on the machinery at your disposal.

 

3D-printing is becoming increasingly the technique to go to for such small items. The limiting factor is not so much the size of the blocks, but rather the bores for rigging. It is still difficult to get below 0.3 mm diameter, while for such a boat you would have to go down to 0.2 mm or less - keeping in mind that 0.2 mm in 1:96 means just under 20 mm in real money, which is a pretty hefty rope for a boat. For the moment, there doesn't seem to be a commercial offer for such blocks, but @dafi (of HMS VICTORY fame) showed me some samples that he printed in acrylic resin and they look very good.

 

[Roger Pellett]

Allan, If you have access to a lathe, a notable British modeler who posted on MSW and sadly recently passed away (sorry, I can’t remember his name) had a system for turning tiny blocks from brass rod. It worked something like this.

 

Select a brass rod with the diameter equal to the length of the block.

File a flat on two opposing sides of the rod.

Spin the rod in the lathe to round off the edges of the flats.

Cut correctly spaced grooves in the rod.

Part off each block

Solder wire around each block.

 

I tried to make some blocks using this method a while ago.  Everything worked fine until I tried to solder the wire bails around the blocks.  The solder ran into the grooves in the, blocks.  I now have a very fine tipped soldering iron and some .010” diameter solder that should work well.

 

If you are willing to use purchased parts, send me a PM.

 

Roger

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Roger Pellett

[wefalck]

Tried this method, but the main issue is to drill the tiny holes and then to round off its edges, so that that rope runs out of the block in a tangent, rather than at +/- a right angle ...

 

I have also tried to cut slots into the rod, then insert into these slots brass pieces that were halfround at the top. The problem was also that the solder clogged up the hole for the rope.

 

Tried the same thing with Plexiglas rod, but had the same problem with clogging up holes.

 

I think in my current building log, some three or so years ago I showed all these trials, troubles and tribulations.

[allanyed]

I do have a lathe so may give the brass blocks a try, but my first try will be using European boxwood for the blocks.  I have a few small pieces left from the past so will give it a go.  Will keep you posted on these as they are coming up very soon.

Mast, boom, gaff and sprit can be seen below.  After looking at the photo myself I will be sanding the jaws as they look heavy.    On drawing ZAZ7322 it looks to have metal jaw bolted to the mast and a pivot ring on the boom itself.  Not sure which would be appropriate for circa 1800.

Allan

[wefalck]

Another material I used for blocks and that works well is phenolic resin board, as used for circuit boards. It is brown, quite easily available in thicknesses of up to 3 mm in electronics shops. I am cutting strips from the boards with my circular saw. It sands and polishes well.

Unfortunately, paper-based phenolic resin rods do not seem to be available, only those with cotton fabric and then only from 8 mm diametre upwards.

The phenolic resin has the advantage of being heat resistant, so that one can solder fittings around it.

[druxey]

Phenolic resin board has an interesting odour when cut!

[wefalck]

I love it ...

[iMustBeCrazy]

10 hours ago, allanyed said:

On drawing ZAZ7322 it looks to have metal jaw bolted to the mast and a pivot ring on the boom itself.

To me it mostly looks like an iron strap (rod with flattened ends) on the mast and a hook on the boom. I say mostly because I can also see other things it may represent

 

 

[allanyed]

Hi Craig,

Yes that was my conclusion as well, but as I am not at all sure of the year on that particular plan I opted to go with a wooden jaw on the boom and a support ring on the mast on which the boom end will rest.  

Thank you for your input, it is very much appreciated.

Allan

[Roger Pellett]

The guy who described the technique for making brass blocks was Gerald Wingrove.

 

A forgotten book applicable to early small craft is The Fore and Aft Rig In America by E.P. Thomas.  First published in 1927, he rigorously examines available contemporary evidence and draws some interesting conclusions.  He concludes that there were two separate and distinct gaff rigs; a Short Gaff and a Long Gaff.  He concludes that the Long Gaff is actually a further development of the Sprit Rig.  While the Short Gaff is the Shoulder of Mutton Rig of undetermined origin.  In Daniel Defoe’s early Eighteenth Century Book, Robinson Crusoe actually mentions the Shoulder of Mutton sail as it applies to warships boats.  The drawing that you are using is of course the Short Gaff rig while the more famous Medway Longboat is rigged with the Long Gaff rig.

 

Thomas also draws heavily on William Burgis’s two drawings of New York and Boston published in 1717 and 1725 respectively.  I have included below, a section of the New York drawing showing what appears to be an anchored Longboat.  This boat influenced me in the overall “look” of my model.

 

Roger

 

 

 

[allanyed]

Happy day, I did some digging in my stock of materials and found I still had a number of packages of blocks from Lloyd Warner who owned Warner Woods West back in the day.  The smallest I have are 2mm (0.078"), in the pic below but there is room to shorten them a little bit.  Goodness gracious these are tiny.   The final size I hope to get with a little sanding on the length is 0.065 long so close to the block sizes on the drawing. (0.057X 0.045)  The width as they came is 0.051, only 6 thousands oversized compared to the drawing.  

Allan

 

[wefalck]

2 mm is BIG ... by my standards 😁

[Ferrus Manus]

WOW. How's that even possible!? 

[Ferrus Manus]

Those blocks are HUGE!! 

[allanyed]

41 minutes ago, Ferrus Manus said:

WOW. How's that even possible!? 

I don't know how he had these made but they are excellent blocks even at that size.   He used a hard wood, possibly boxwood, I do not recall, as I have had these since about 2015.  There is no char on any of his blocks so I don't think they were laser cut but maybe CNC.  Anyone know of any high quality blocks 2mm or smaller? I know Syren makes fantastic blocks but nothing smaller than 3mm unless something has changed.   

Allan

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by allanyed

[Thukydides]

Vanguard and crafty sailor used to have some pearwood 2mm ones, but they seem to be out of stock now. If you are interested I might have a few extras I could send your way (I used them for rigging my guns on Alert).

Edited October 25, 2023 by Thukydides

[allanyed]

Thanks Thukydides, but no need.  Your offer is VERY kind and I really appreciate it.  I only needed a couple for this project and have about 20 in my old stock.   Hopefully I will never have to work at this scale again.  Next ship is in the works and thankfully we agreed to 1:48 so the smallest blocks will be about 3mm.

Thanks again!

Allan

 

[allanyed]

Now I remember why rigging is not my favorite part of a build.  At this scale it is unsettling, frustrating, and makes me want to go over to a wabi sabi attitude.

 

Allan

 

 

 

[iMustBeCrazy]

7 minutes ago, allanyed said:

At this scale it is unsettling, frustrating, and makes me want to go over to a wabi sabi attitude.

My thought was to do it flat with everything taped to the plan then lifted in one piece and fitted to the boat.

 

But then I'm not going to even try a 1:96 fully rigged boat 😲

 

[allanyed]

2 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

But then I'm not going to even try a 1:96 fully rigged boat

You are a very wise man Craig

 

Allan

 

[iMustBeCrazy]

12 minutes ago, allanyed said:

You are a very wise man Craig

Sadly, not often enough.