31 foot Longboat 1801 by allanyed - scale 1:96

[allanyed]

11 hours ago, druxey said:

One can wax the plug or cover it in Saran wrap

Thanks Druxey

I thought this might be a good idea, but never tried it with wood.  I used to use a mold release wax on fiberglass and gel coat molds when making fiberglass models and it worked very nicely.    I will give it a go the next time!!

Allan

 

11 hours ago, Ferrus Manus said:

I can't believe you already finished the planking! 

Once I made the holly stock for the planks the right thickness it only took about 15 minutes to make each plank and another few to glue it in place.  They are so thin, a scalpel was used for cutting them, including the tapers and a five minute soak in water and one minute blast with a hot air gun shaped them just fine. 

 

Thanks for the comments and likes everyone, they are VERY much appreciated!!

 

Allan

 

 

[allanyed]

Cap rails (or is this more properly called a gunnel), keelson, foot waling, platforms, risers and mast step in place.  To get the risers placed properly I temporarily clamped a 7" (0.073") spacer from the top of the frames to where the top of the riser was to be located.  

 

I don't know the name of the piece marked "A" in the plan below, and wonder if the sprit traditionally rested on the starboard or port side of the stem as it did not go over the top of it on the boats.   I am pretty sure part A is iron due to the size of the material. 

 

Also, I am guessing that there would be a roller (B) built into both the starboard and port ears, but if anyone has more details, that would be great.  Many plans show the ears and I have the scantlings for them but this is the first plan I have seen that shows the roller details.

 

Allan

Edited October 15, 2023 by allanyed

[druxey]

It appears to be that the roller is to starboard and the bowsprit (with its iron) is to port. Otherwise the bowsprit would foul the roller.

[allanyed]

Thanks Druxey,  Once again, common sense prevails and I seem to be lacking it of late. 

Allan

[druxey]

We all miss things at times, Allan!

[allanyed]

The small pieces are a pain in the neck at this scale, but I am trying.  

The thwarts are in, including the fixed thwarts that will receive knees, ears, the benches, transom knees, breast hook, lift rings (32 gage copper wire blackened with liver of sulfur once installed), and the roller in the starboard ear.   I cut an opening in the platform aft for a davit arm, but MAY fill it in and add a roller aft as shown on the drawing ZAZ5814.    

 

Question: Circa 1800 what would the tholes for the oars look like?  Would they be simple square pins with grooves for wash boards, tholes that are vertical pieces supported with small knees, either of these, or something else?   

Thanks

Allan

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by allanyed

[iMustBeCrazy]

2 hours ago, allanyed said:

Circa 1800 what would the tholes for the oars look like?

More tough questions? I guess the general progression was one round pin, two round pins, two rectangular pins, two rectangular pins through a 'plinth', two gusseted rectangular pins with or without plinth, two gusseted rectangular pins with removable washboards and then two rectangular pins with fixed washboards. But I wasn't there. The pins would have been readily replaceable, at least until they were gusseted and would have been braced at the lower end. The gussets could have been longer than depicted below.

 

Artist drawings from the mid 1700s and from 1807-8 show two gusseted rectangular pins with or without plinth but that doesn't exclude other options.

 

With the low transom on your boat I don't think it had washboards.

 

[allanyed]

13 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

Artist drawings from the mid 1700s and from 1807-8

Thank Craig, this is great information.  Can you post or steer me to the later artist drawings?  I did look at some [photos of circa 1800 contemporary models of boats and ships with boats and they showed  with pins and washboards, or plain pins with no gussets.  For the later, they were not clear so could very well have had the 'plinth'     Thanks again!

Allan

Edited October 17, 2023 by allanyed

[iMustBeCrazy]

9 hours ago, allanyed said:

Can you post or steer me to the later artist drawings?

Allan, don't expect proof positive, https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/search/Robert Pollard boat?images=yes#!cbrowse I do note that he's a little too consistent, there must have been more variation than he shows.

And an earlier depiction, undated but somewhere between ~1750-1770. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Samuel_Scott_-_A_Ship's_Boat_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg

We also touched on this subject in the Bounty boats thread: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/33217-bountys-ships-boat-details/page/2/

 

By the way, 😲.

 

[allanyed]

Thanks Craig, this is really good stuff.

Allan

Edited October 17, 2023 by allanyed

[Roger Pellett]

We naturally tend to think today of most items in manufacturing terms so if I say 1965 Ford Mustang, most people know exactly what I am talking about.  As a hand crafted item, there was probably much more variety in ships’ boats of the same type.  Even so, there was an attempt to classify different boat types, so any seaman would know if he was looking at a yawl, a Longboat, or a launch; something much more difficult for us to do today.

 

As a general rule, I believe that 18th Century Longboats were not fitted with washboards.  On the other hand, washboards were a defining feature of a Cutter.  Longboats, were however, supposed to be capable of offshore service and ships’ carpenters would have been expected to be able increase freeboard of these boats when required.

 

ROGER

[allanyed]

Progress.  The windlass was straightforward.  Cutting the square holes was really easy with the smallest chisel from Mihail Kirsanov.  The thole pins were a challenge and being double banked, twice the fun/grief 😀.  I added a plinth/base as Craig described above then drilled holes with a number 80 bit.  I was going to use brass or copper wire but there was no way to make them look like wood without paint.  I took bamboo down to 0.015" with my Byrnes draw plate then glued these into the holes to represent the pins.  They are a tad oversize so had room to flatten to a more square shape using a scalpel.    

Allan

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by allanyed

[shipman]

Allan, you really are spoiling us.

FAB

[allanyed]

Thanks Shipman.  I just took this as a personal challenge to see what I could do.  I still prefer 1:48 and am good with 1:64, but at least I know my limits can now include 1:96 within them if the need arises.

 

Allan

[allanyed]

I am having trouble reconciling the shape of the sprit support with ring that allows the sprit to pass on the port side of the stem.   There is only one view on the plan so I am guessing using the assumption that simpler is better.   I have not yet found another contemporary plan or model that shows the same design detail. I looked at the Medway longboat model at RMG and while it is a bit of a different design it but may be a good alternative.  

 

Any feedback would be most welcome.   Thanks!

 

Allan

 

 

[druxey]

That would be exactly my take on the piece, Allen.

[iMustBeCrazy]

Nice Allan. Now I'm just waiting to see how you make a bottle around it.

 

[iMustBeCrazy]

47 minutes ago, allanyed said:

Any feedback would be most welcome.   Thanks!

Looks spot on to me (assuming the 'hoop' is a flat strap).

[allanyed]

 

2 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

(assuming the 'hoop' is a flat strap)

Thanks guys

Craig, yes I am going with a flat ring that will be soldered to the arm.  The plan I am using is detailed enough that I am sure flat stock would be appropriate for this project.  But, the device on the Medway model looks like a rod that was shaped and a small area flattened where the bolt goes through so one can argue either method was acceptable at some point in time.

Allan

 

[BANYAN]

A very nice little model Allan, as you say 1:96 can present some challenges.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[allanyed]

Looking at rigging plans I have a couple items about which I am not sure so if anyone has more information, that would be great.

1.  This seems straight forward, but there appears to be a triple block at the top of the mast.  I had  not seen this before on small boats but maybe it was common.   OR, am I not seeing this right?

2.  This area was recently discussed here at MSW as the sheets could/would foul the tiller.   Looking at the drawing more closely, there appears to be something other than a line, perhaps a wooden or metal rod that can be moved from port to starboard as needed.  I really have no solution other than moving the lines forward of the tiller.

Another question on a separate post to follow................

 

Allan

 

 

[allanyed]

Looking at drawings ZAZ 7322 and ZAZ 5814 I am coming to a conclusion that the deadeyes for the shrouds were hooked to the straps rather than being assembled as on the ship.  Am I off base on this?   Looking at the Medway longboat model it appears that they are hooked to the straps and have a lashing to keep it secure.

Allan

[Thukydides]

Regarding the triple block, this confusing part for me on this is that there are too many lines going in to the left of it and not enough coming out the right side, unless they didn’t draw the loose ends and all of them just have loose ends that can be pulled independently.

 

When I zoom in it looks like I can see a faint line running through the hook so is it possible that line 1 is actually fastened to the mast? How does it attach to the boom, it it attached to a block or just fastened?

Edited October 22, 2023 by Thukydides

[druxey]

I believe that the 'metal or wooden support' represents an inverted, U-shaped iron horse that the lower sheet block can travel along above the tiller.

[allanyed]

 

3 hours ago, druxey said:

I believe that the 'metal or wooden support' represents an inverted, U-shaped iron horse that the lower sheet block can travel along above the tiller.

That makes total sense to me Druxey,  thank you very much.

[allanyed]

4 hours ago, Thukydides said:

How does it attach to the boom, it it attached to a block or just fastened?

Thank you for your post.   I am now a little more confused.  Line 1 does not attach to the boom anywhere that I can find.  It leads down from the mast to a single block that is attached to the boom then back up and through the upper (triple?) block then down to the deck where it would belay.   

 

Allan

[allanyed]

In the meantime, the sprit step post and rudder are in place.  The 1.25" broad  rudder hinges are so small (0.013") at this scale I used black construction paper rather than brass or copper.  If the rudder was to be a hinged properly I would have gone with copper or brass which would surely be doable but I did not see the point of taking on more agita for a static model.

Allan

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by allanyed

[Thukydides]

2 hours ago, allanyed said:

Thank you for your post.   I am now a little more confused.  Line 1 does not attach to the boom anywhere that I can find.  It leads down from the mast to a single block that is attached to the boom then back up and through the upper (triple?) block then down to the deck where it would belay.   

 

Allan

The only sensible thing I can make of it is that it is a triple block with three independent lines running from it. 

 

So line 1 goes from the mast, through the single block, then back up and through the triple block and then down to the deck.

 

Lines 2 and three each go directly through the triple block and then down to the deck.

 

The line closest to the mast which you did not label which seems to terminate at the gaff represents the three ends of these lines falling down to the deck where they could be pulled on.

 

In this way you could control the height of the gaff, the angle of the gaff and the height of the end of the boom with these three lines.

[allanyed]

Thukydides,

Your explanation is exactly what I had concluded as well.  We are either both correct or not😀

 

Allan

[Roger Pellett]

Here are some photos of the rigging of the model that I built using the drawing that you posted.  I spent a great deal of time studying the drawing and arriving at my own decisions about the rigging.  As I posted before, I believe that this represents a much earlier boat than you are modeling.  Perhaps a transition from the boomless mainsail rigs of the 1600’s to the later “Medway” Longboat rig.  Conclusions:

 

 The block at the masthead is a triple.  It handles three lines: 

1.  The topping lift for the mainsail.  This line is secured to the masthead just above the triple block, passes through a single block at the end of the topping lift pendant then through one sheave on the triple and down to a pin on the fixed thwart.

 

2. The peak halyard.  As I posted above the mainsail on the boat is a “shoulder of mutton” sail, not a true gaff.  The gaff only supports the head of the sail and the peak halyard does not need great mechanical advantage to do this. So it is just a single whip, spliced to a single block at the gaff end, passing through the second sheave on the triple block and down to a pin on the fixed thwart.

 

3. The throat halyard.  This is spliced to the throat of the triple block, passes down to a single block at the inboard end of the gaff, back up to the third sheave on the triple block and down to a pin on the fixed thwart.

 

You will also note a cheek block at the masthead.  This handles the jib halyard.  The jib is set flying- there is no fixed stay supporting its luff. There is a famous drawing of New York Harbor from the 1720’s showing the jib hoisted In stops as I show on my model.  The traveler on the bowsprit allows the sail to be brought inboard before it is lowered.  A danger with this flying sail is that the boat can sail over it if it is not brought inboard first.

 

The mainsheet block moves back and forth OVER the tiller on an iron traveler.

 

Roger

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Roger Pellett