Capstan used to lift and lower boats

[AON]

My build is British 3rd rate MOW in the 1790-1800 era.

I've just read that capstans were used for hauling anchors, installing yards and lifting/lowering boats.

My interest is in lifting and lowering boats.

I understand there were blocks used in the standing rigging and on the yards to lift/lower and swing in/out.

I assume the lift/lower lines ran to blocks on the upper deck (below the boat stowage beams) and were joined together into an extension single rope that wrapped around the capstan.

Has anyone ever read or seen anything to prove this?

Would the men manning the capstan be on the gun deck below that so as not to trip over the rope and be protected by the overhead deck from the boat being maneuvred overhead?

[Morgan]

My assumption would be that the ropes from the Capstan would run through the Top Tackle Scuttles up to the Main Yards for performing the heavy lifting operations. Not only boats, but serving the Main and Fore hatches moving loads such as guns, ships stores, as well as upper masting and yards.

 

Gary

[AON]

You just taught me something.

Thank you!

[popeye2sea]

In order to set up  a yard and stay hoisting rig (which is what that lifting rig is called) you need two separate hauling parts.

 

One tackle is rigged over the main hatch with the tackle attached to the main stay. The other tackle is a yard tackle suspended from the lower yard arm.

The lower blocks for both tackles come together and are hooked into the sling holding the load.

In order to launch a boat.

Step 1.  Hoist away on the stay tackle, which is directly over the load, so that the load is high enough to clear the side bulwarks.  The yard tackle holds fast or takes up slack. The stay tackle bears the load.

Step 2.  Haul the load outboard by heaving on the yard tackle. The stay tackle is eased as needed. Both tackles bear the load.

Step 3.  Once the load is directly beneath the yard tackle outboard of the ship, lower away on the yard tackle. Ease the stay tackle as needed. The stay tackle bears the load until the boat is in the water.

 

The process is reversed for getting cargo into the ship.

 

Regards,

Henry

 

P.S. The actual rig is slightly more complicated because you need relieving lifts and rolling tackles on the yard to help it bear the weight of the load.

 

P.P.S  I took a ship loading operations course for the US Navy Military Sealift Command. I found the yard and stay rig to be the most fun to rig and operate. The gantry crane with a container spreader being a close second.

 

Regards,

Henry

[Dr PR]

Here are two images that illustrate the yard and stay tackle operation to launch a boat (I don't recall where these illustrations came from).

 

Here is the detailed rigging:

 

 

Note that there are eight tackles for lifting and moving the boat, and four guys to control it while it is moving. The top burton and rolling tackles keep the yard horizontal. They all have to be handled in coordination. One capstan isn't enough. All of the falls would have been handled by teams of sailors.

 

Here is the process: 

 

The stay tackles lift the boat from its cradle. The yard tackles haul it outboard. Then the yard tackles are let out to lower the boat, while the stay tackles are slacked so as to not interfere. Bringing the boat back on board is the reverse of this process.

 

The distance between the stay tackles is varied by setting the length of the triatic stay, longer for longer boats and shorter for smaller boats. The lower block of one stay tackle can be hooked to the upper block of the other to make a rig with just the second tackle lifting while the first moves the rig fore and aft between the masts. Adding a yard tackle hooked to the object being lifted allows using the rig to move objects around on deck, fore and aft and side to side. This type of rig was used to move cannon and other large objects.

 

Just about every imaginable combination of these basic tackles could be hooked together to handle whatever needed to be moved. Anchors were fished up to the rail with the fore stay or burton tackles, and could be moved back to positions farther aft with the yard tackles. A winch or capstan could be used for these operations using only one lifting tackle at a time.

Edited September 12 by Dr PR

[AON]

Thank so very, very much! (MSW rocks!) 

 

I`ve spent the better part of two days trying to find any sort of detail on how it was done in the books in my library and the only one that came close was The Fully Framed Model, vol. 4.  Several other books brushed up against the subject but left me as confused.

Your images above answer almost all questions.

 

I know the larger boats could weigh more than a ton and I imagine a few men on the tackle alone could raise the boat and swing it over the side without bothering with the capstan. What would be the preferred means... man handle by tackle alone or utilise the capstans with the tackle?

[popeye2sea]

Manpower only. No capstan.  Those are five part tackles and there are two on each boat. So the force needed for each hauling part is something like 200 pounds.  Not difficult for a few sailors on each tackle.

 

Regards,

 

Henry

[AON]

Thanks you.

 

I did read where Dr. PR wrote all of the falls would be handled by sailors.

My experience has been that no matter how many people you put on a tackle line, one or two are doing all the work, the rest a great actors.

My thought was possibly they would use the capstan as it would be easier work plus the pawls were a safety feature when lifting.

 

So, Wolfram zu Mondfeld in his book Historic Ship Models, top of pg 178, was misleading.

 

That buggers the plan formulating in my mind.

 

[dafi]

My understanding always was that the capstans were used using the top rope scuttles to lead the ropes via a blocks on the capstan´s level deck to hoist the boats.

 

But seeing the drawings, the complexity of coordinating the 4 ropes and the attached calculations of resulting weights, the conclusion of no capstan but enough men being used is the far more attractive to me 🙂

 

XXXDAn

Edited September 13 by dafi

[AON]

Ah, but there are in fact four capstans. Those below on the upper deck. At the time the upper and lower halves could be un-joined and operated separately.

Were there scuttles to pass ropes through the upper deck to the gun deck?

Could they hear the orders from above through to the gun deck?

Man handling the ropes might have been the easier option.

I am left wondering... even though I admit not using the capstans would work.

 

[popeye2sea]

Only the largest of vessels were fitted with four capstans.

[AON]

In the era the third rate had two on the upper deck and two immediately below on the gun deck. The spindle of the upper connected to the lower but could be detached allowing the lower to be operated independently

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  The illustrations are awesome, Phil !   Two pictures (plus a few notes) = thousands of words.  This is JUST the sort of thing I want to eventually put on my Vasa ...  always wondered how they'd do it, and once again, form follows function - and according to Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation is often the most likely.

  Another "Ah-Hah" moment came when I saw illustrations on how the davits worked on Shackleton's Endurance - where the distance between the davits is clearly LESS than the length of the boat hung from them.  When both davits pivot in the same direction inboard, the boat shifts to that side enough that one end of the boat will clear it's davit.  Then that davit continues rotating in the same direction (to pull that boat end outboard) WHILE the other davit reverses rotation to let the far end of the boat 'follow along' (the boat now being somewhat diagonal pointing outboard) as the boat moves outboard until the other end clears its davit.  Then only that davit continues turning until both ends of the boat are outboard (and parallel to the gunwale), then both davits pivot to re-center the boat between the davits in the fully outboard position.

  Before reversible motors, I suppose cranks and gears would pivot the davits as needed.

[mtaylor]

Where's that Wayback machine?   We really need one for discussions like this.

[Thukydides]

I don’t know if the rigging is contemporary or not, but the Art Gallery of Ontario has a contemporary model showing the boats being lifted:

https://ago.ca/collection/object/agoid.106264

[AON]

Thanks.

What a mess of lines! eh?

I'll try and contact them to see if they can provide a close photo of where the lines go but I have a strong suspicion they are just tied off.

[Thukydides]

Found another one, this one a french ship held by the science museum in London:

https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co40907/model-of-120-gun-ship-the-french-1st-rate-ocean

[dafi]

On 9/13/2024 at 6:44 PM, AON said:

...

Were there scuttles to pass ropes through the upper deck to the gun deck?

Could they hear the orders from above through to the gun deck?

...

 

Look for more info here:

 

[AON]

Yes. After having been mentioned earlier above I did a search and that posting for the quarter deck and forecastle came up... but were there scuttles below those two, on the upper deck feeding to the capstan on the gun Deck?