P-51D Mustang by Lt. Biggles - FINISHED - Eduard - 1/48 - PLASTIC

[Canute]

Unfortunately, it did. We asked about removing the ductwork, but the effort for removal was out weighed by the time left in the lifetime of the airframes. Very frustrating for we aircrew.

[realworkingsailor]

An interesting explanation of the aerodynamic properties of the P-51:

 

 

(Note: the presenter’s information is all sourced from primary source documents and test reports)
 

Andy

[Egilman]

13 hours ago, Danstream said:

I am sorry, but, with all respect, I need to comment few details about the description above, for the sake of precision.

Thank you, I am by no means an expert... I have been unable to find my copy of the tech manual on the P-51, but what you explained feels right to me... There are two thing here with Laminar Flow, normal L.F. and L.F.C... Normal L.F. is a you describe and is simply designed for the maximum smooth flow around the wing profile as far along the chord as possible... And, that the designs were for the most part finalized in the late '30's by Langley... That being said, the natural extension to such research was to see if such effects could be controlled, and both the Smithsonian (NACA) and MIT were working on those aspects by '38... Air pressure channeling is an aspect of L.F.C. Laminar Flow Control of which it was found that it is of no real advantage except at high AOA, which really came into it's own in the late 50's with highspeed aircraft that needed a high AOA to land... (and those aircraft that suffered from intake stall/disruption at high AOA) and sorry i gave such a confusing explanation...

 

The technical explanations for how lift works is a LOT more technical than just faster airflow over the upper curved surface... (although Mr. Bernoulli would give you a long vigorous discussion about it) {chuckle}

 

Thank you for clarifying that my friend...

Edited October 10 by Egilman

[Lt. Biggles]

19 hours ago, realworkingsailor said:

I feel compelled to jump in, if you don’t mind, with a small factual (fun?) tidbit. The prototype photo you posted is in fact a P-51H model, not a P-51D. Aside from other design changes, it used an entirely different NACA wing profile than the “D” model, and can be most easily recognized by the straight leading edge.

 

Andy

Is it!? 😬 what gave it away as being a H model? To me it looks identical to a D model… but that’s only because I can only tell mustangs apart because the earlier ones didn’t have a bubble canopy! After that I’m clueless haha!

I had a good look after reading your reply and all I could see was the battery behind the pilot looks slightly different?

[Lt. Biggles]

Some great aero discussions going on! I do enjoy them! I’d love to have had a fly in an F-4! Unfortunately just civilian planes except I once flew a Harvard but I don't class them as a warbird but still fun doing buzz and breaks! One of our aircraft had leading edge vortex generators and according to the flight manual if more than 3 were missing the stall speed was a good bit higher. 
I've always enjoyed the theory and how quickly things get complex!

 

While digesting it all I filled in the panel lines on the wings.

And also bit the bullet and gave the fuselage its coat of aluminium.

I was a bit nervous and was starting to delay for no reason apart from being scared of ruining the whole thing.

 

It’s really hard to take a good pic of it. But I think it does the job. 
once dry I’ll paint the wings with silver mixed with a touch of gloss white to make the difference more noticeable and also nose and tail yellow. Then the next step starts… how to weather… I’m assuming you can’t do oil washes over a nmf! Another part to learn! I don’t want to weather it much, just make it dulled down in an oxidised way. 

[Lt. Biggles]

17 hours ago, realworkingsailor said:

An interesting explanation of the aerodynamic properties of the P-51:

 

 

(Note: the presenter’s information is all sourced from primary source documents and test reports)
 

Andy

That was a really interesting watch! Amazing how different altitudes affect the two aircraft! 

[ccoyle]

4 hours ago, Lt. Biggles said:

s it!? 😬 what gave it away as being a H model?

 

The H had a redesigned fuselage, giving it a chunky look compared to the refined lines of the D. If you see a 'D', and it just doesn't look quite 'right', it's probably an H.

 

[ccoyle]

21 hours ago, realworkingsailor said:

(Note: the presenter’s information is all sourced from primary source documents and test reports)

 

Greg does great research.

[realworkingsailor]

5 hours ago, Lt. Biggles said:

Is it!? 😬 what gave it away as being a H model? To me it looks identical to a D model… but that’s only because I can only tell mustangs apart because the earlier ones didn’t have a bubble canopy! After that I’m clueless haha!

I had a good look after reading your reply and all I could see was the battery behind the pilot looks slightly different?

 

Rather than type up a long winded response, I'll let Greg handle it (he explains it better anyway):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGFsAOUdX7A

 

Andy

[Egilman]

10 hours ago, Lt. Biggles said:

That was a really interesting watch! Amazing how different altitudes affect the two aircraft! 

Yep it was pretty much the equal of anything in the sky below 25K ft, (when flown within it's envelope) but above that, the only thing that could keep up was the Spit Mk IX and above...

 

It was the high mark class of the single engine propeller fighter planes.... It's why the USAF grounded everything else after the war and went exclusively Mustang... And it's only fitting that the last great propeller fighter plane was also one of the most beautiful airplanes ever designed...

[Lt. Biggles]

First time trying mr, Color standard lacquer paints. Only thing (apart from the smell) is how thick they are! Normally drop paint from a tooth pick to get ratios. 4 drops of this with one drop of that so I get the same colour each time. No way with these paints! Just had to scoop paint out and good luck to me to try match it again! 
painted the wings with silver and a good dashing of white. If I could have controlled the colours more maybe I’d have added less white. But it’s ok.

Ailerons aren’t painted so still black. They need to be aluminium but I forgot about them when doing the fuselage!

 

It’s amazing how hard it is to photograph! A small change in angle is a whole new look!

And again outside in the sun. I’m afraid you will never really know what this plane looks like in real life!

 

Ailerons and flaps to paint and the yellow once the paint has had a good while to dry. Yellow is hard so will probably be done over a good few hours to build it up to the right thickness

[Lt. Biggles]

20 hours ago, realworkingsailor said:

 

Rather than type up a long winded response, I'll let Greg handle it (he explains it better anyway):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGFsAOUdX7A

 

Andy

He has some great stuff! Amazing info! To me the D model is the prettiest! But those super prop planes are pretty much as fast as you can go with a prop and they weren’t that far after flying was invented really!!

[Danstream]

Good progress on the Aluminum (paint and bare). Do not forget the darker panel where the exhaust shrouds are located. They were made of steel and had a darker, shiny finish. They were so distinctive and you can see them in any picture of a Mustang.

I also think that the version D is the most graceful and handsome one.

Dan 

[Lt. Biggles]

15 hours ago, Danstream said:

Good progress on the Aluminum (paint and bare). Do not forget the darker panel where the exhaust shrouds are located. They were made of steel and had a darker, shiny finish. They were so distinctive and you can see them in any picture of a Mustang.

I also think that the version D is the most graceful and handsome one.

Dan 

Thanks for the reminder, when I got the super fine silver and duralumin I also got some super iron just for that part. I’ve heard the colour can be hard to tell apart easily so I’ll paint it black underneath and so a very thin coat until it looks right.

I'm still wondering if the silver paint had too much white and needs toning down back to be abit more silvery. At some angles it’s great at other angles it’s quite a late contrast! But I’m not sure.

 

added the black stripes. 
 

Under the main wing strips I’ve got some chipping fluid. So I’ll roughen those up shortly

 

 

[Lt. Biggles]

Added the steel part around the exhaust. And chipped up the black lines abit so they aren’t perfectly new. I’ll let it sit for a few days and cure well and on Monday will add on the yellow nose and tail. Also the olive drab anti glare bit and  see how it looks.

 

[Javlin]

I just used a black panel wash on my P-51's looks to do the job for the most part.Looking very good by the way!

Edited October 12 by Javlin

[Lt. Biggles]

So does any one know how to get the landing gear clipped into place? I went for a dry fit but it’s too tight. And everything is so delicate it’s tough to get a good amount of force. I used my tweezers and gripped it but I could feel the wings flexing and creaking and I think I’d rip the wings off before the it clips into place. It’s an important join as it’s important it’s really strong but I’m abit stuck and crushing my undercarriage legs would be a real shame with how much work I’ve put into building them. Any tips would be really appreciated 

[Danstream]

Maybe inserting a brass pin into the joint? Drilling into the leg isn't too difficult, you start with a very fine bit and then progressively large ones. Drilling a socket into the wing is more critical, but it does need to be dead right, a slightly larger socket will allow for some angular adjustments. If you use CA gel, the gel will fill the larger space. Of course, you have to evaluate which thickness of the wing you have there, because the risk is to go through the wing upper surface. You have to keep the leg pieces correctly aligned in place until the gel cures.

Please gauge your abilities before committing the parts, I have done similar things with reasonable results.

Good luck,

Dan

[Danstream]

7 hours ago, Lt. Biggles said:

So does any one know how to get the landing gear clipped into place? I went for a dry fit but it’s too tight.

Sorry, rereading your post, I understood now that the fit is too tight. But then, why not to enlarge the socket? (I am assuming the parts mates with a peg-socket joint). 

cheers,

Dan

[Old Collingwood]

As Dan says  -  you could use a  fine drill  bit the  same  thickness as  the  leg  extrusion,  you can get  sets of  very  fine small  modelling drill bits.

 

OC.

[Lt. Biggles]

9 hours ago, Danstream said:

Sorry, rereading your post, I understood now that the fit is too tight. But then, why not to enlarge the socket? (I am assuming the parts mates with a peg-socket joint). 

cheers,

Dan

 

5 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

As Dan says  -  you could use a  fine drill  bit the  same  thickness as  the  leg  extrusion,  you can get  sets of  very  fine small  modelling drill bits.

 

OC.

Thanks for the replies. I did my usual thing and left them alone for 24 hours and just pondered solutions so I didn’t do anything stupid in the moment. It payed off. 
Thanks for the ideas and tips. I did shave just alittle off the plug as suggested. And then took a risk and applied some cement on the undercarriage and let it for a min to soften the plastic and then just forced it in and hoped for the best. I didn’t want to dry fit it incase it was the one shot I got for a good fit before broken bits started to compromise the join.

I managed to get them into place and glued a good solid join I hope, later I’ll fill it up with thin CA to give it more strength.

All the fits for this kit are super precise so I had that in mind and if the undercarriage legs were installed during the wheel well construction I think it would be another perfect fit (but not sure if the legs would fit through the underside of the wing to install at that point) Just incase anyone reads this before making their own.

 

So the undercarriage is installed and managed to do it without breaking any of the delicate details!

all the parts are installed now and the yellow nose and tail is painted. Starting on the decals

 

[Lt. Biggles]

Decals went on, Eduard ones are quite strange! Very thin which is nice but unusual sized clear parts over the decal. But being thin meant my solutions could do a pretty good job of softening them. The USA stars and as many other parts as possible were from the after market set as they seemed pretty nice. 
 

Clear coat is on so once dry will be set to do some oil washes and have a go at oxidation to make it look like it’s been used and then finish with a matte clear coat to dull it right off.

[Lt. Biggles]

Been giving it some time between each oil wash session to help avoid removing to previous work! But did an all over wash to help with panel lines and just tone the new shine down. I’ll not do much more apart from some work around the underside and engine exhausts and stains. I’m hoping the matte varnish will nicely tone it down to an oxidised look rather than a grubby look as they were kept in not bad condition so can’t grime too much.

Its in the final stages now

[Old Collingwood]

This is looking so excellent.

 

OC.

[Egilman]

Looks absolutely fantastic, (except for the fuel stains of course, the fuelers always had wipe up rags for any such thing ever happening and with the fuel systems they had in use at the fields at the time, (mid-late '44) fuel spills often enough to cause stains like that were very rare/never happened) A crew chief would lose his spot for letting something like that happen...

 

You can see the fuselage fuel port at an angle where fuel stains would show up prominently, not there, in fact you can hardly see the fuel port... At a forward airbase....

Different aircraft same period, you can easily see both wing port and fuselage port, no fuel stains, the pic is good enough to show the hand oil discoloration around the wing port, no fuel stains... See the muddy crud on the wing root walkway? Forward airbase as well...

 

Excellent work great skills on display here....

 

EG

Edited October 22 by Egilman

[king derelict]

A beautiful finish and excellent detail 

alan

[Javlin]

Like the toned down version mucha better!

[Lt. Biggles]

On 10/22/2024 at 2:33 PM, Old Collingwood said:

This is looking so excellent.

 

OC.

Thanks, I’ve learnt a lot and if I ever do another NMF it will be a lot less daunting and hopefully turn out better!

[Lt. Biggles]

On 10/22/2024 at 4:36 PM, Egilman said:

Looks absolutely fantastic, (except for the fuel stains of course, the fuelers always had wipe up rags for any such thing ever happening and with the fuel systems they had in use at the fields at the time, (mid-late '44) fuel spills often enough to cause stains like that were very rare/never happened) A crew chief would lose his spot for letting something like that happen...

 

You can see the fuselage fuel port at an angle where fuel stains would show up prominently, not there, in fact you can hardly see the fuel port... At a forward airbase....

Different aircraft same period, you can easily see both wing port and fuselage port, no fuel stains, the pic is good enough to show the hand oil discoloration around the wing port, no fuel stains... See the muddy crud on the wing root walkway? Forward airbase as well...

 

Excellent work great skills on display here....

 

EG

Thanks for the input! I took your advice and took the fuel stains right back so almost totally gone. But did keep the stains on the ensign bar as I read a big blog about the p51d weathering and so many shots show the results of fuel especially visible on the bar of the ensign so that was the only reason I added them. But you are right in saying it was overdone and the beauty of oils is after a day I just wiped 98% of it off! Hope you approve abit more how it is.

its been a fun but big learning curve working with NMF and looking used but not dirty can be a very fine line

[Lt. Biggles]

On 10/23/2024 at 12:32 PM, king derelict said:

A beautiful finish and excellent detail 

alan

Thanks, I’m relieved it’s come out ok. Always an unknown when doing something new that’s alittle complex