To varnish copper plates or not to varnish?

[Jrlaiho]

Coppering done on Vanguards HMS Indefatigable, half way at least. Still one side to go. After figuring out how to do it (which was about half of the work) it took a bit less than 30 hours to finish one side. Trimming stern, bow and especially waterline plates is what takes time. Used Amati copper plates which can be laid in stripes of 7 plates. It helps a lot, speeding up the work and resulting in nice lines. Rows are slighty overlapping the one below to avoid gaps. When deciding how to lay the plates I pretty soon gave up to idea of a "historically correct" coppering. My coppering is a compromise of limited skills/limited experience, the properties of the material used (plates not as flexible as copper tape) and a need to get something that looks well made/aesthetically pleasing. It's actually quite fun to copper once you figure out how to do it in a way that pleases you. The CA glue is a problem though. It took some time to figure out why I had asthma symptoms and a strange feeling in the evening! After using a quality protective mask no such problems. Of course, wearing that mask for hours is not very comfortable.

 

Then to the point. These fresh copper plates are very shiny. First I thought it looked awful, but I am starting to like. I even now consider leaving it as such and let the time do its job. One tempting alternative is a matt varnish to take off most of the shine and reflection. I sprayed a sheet of Amati copper plates with Maston matt varnish (or lacquer I guess to be precise) and it looks quite nice. It removes the reflection. It is a cheap product so I have some trust issues using Maston. I am interested in hearing what products you have used? (those who have used a matt varnish on copper plates) Anything special to consider when applying it? Any special technique? Tips or tricks? When you apply something on a coppered hull of this size, you simply do not want to mess things up.

 

Below a few pictures. Sorry for the poor quality. Was to lazy to use my quality camera and instead went for the phone camera. 

 

Work in progress. Recommendation to use a protective mask when using CA is not a joke. 

 

Getting used to the shiny copper but the reflection is "disturbing" the details in strong light. 

 

 

Varnished copper experiment. Difficult to photograph, especially with a rather poor phone camera, but it gives an idea of the result. The strong reflection seen on the untreated plates to the left is gone on the sprayed plates to the right. 

[Blue Ensign]

Good looking copper job, and  a great looking hull.👍

 I don't tend to varnish copper plating on my builds, I prefer the 'old penny' look, but it's all down to personal choice.

 

B.E.

[RossR]

I don’t have experience with it, but I think Renaissance Wax might be worth looking into.  

Edited January 31 by RossR

[GrandpaPhil]

I used my standard sealer, a basic acrylic sealant for my last two coppered hulls.

 

It works beautifully and both hulls have aged well and developed a patina.

[WestPort]

Very nice copper job.  Like you I had similar concerns regarding the shine created when I coppered my Pegasus.  I did spray it with Alclad II Flat lacquer but did not like the result on the entire ship.  It definitely dulled the shine but, at least on my ship, it really made the individual copper plates stand out.  I ended up removing it and, like Blue Ensign, have simply left mine to "weather" as is.  After 4 years it has taken on a rather nice tarnished look, definitely still a copper finish but a much more subdued shine.

 

In the end it is up to personal preference.  Given the quality of your work I am sure that whatever you choose will end up looking great.

John

[paul ron]

any pictures to see older uncoated vs coated in aged models? 

 

 

[Clark]

24 minutes ago, GrandpaPhil said:

I used my standard sealer, a basic acrylic sealant for my last two coppered hulls.

 

It works beautifully and both hulls have aged well and developed a patina.

Patina sounds good. But by copper patina I mean a green colouring. Can you post a few pictures so that we can see this? Does the patina intensify over time? Which sealer do you use?
Clark 

[Clark]

1 minute ago, paul ron said:

any pictures to see older uncoated vs coated in aged models? 

 

 

I'd like that too

Clark

[Jrlaiho]

3 hours ago, Blue Ensign said:

Good looking copper job, and  a great looking hull.👍

 I don't tend to varnish copper plating on my builds, I prefer the 'old penny' look, but it's all down to personal choice.

 

B.E.

I'd prefer the 'old penny' look too, so that is one good reason to leave it as such. 

[Jrlaiho]

1 hour ago, WestPort said:

Very nice copper job.  Like you I had similar concerns regarding the shine created when I coppered my Pegasus.  I did spray it with Alclad II Flat lacquer but did not like the result on the entire ship.  It definitely dulled the shine but, at least on my ship, it really made the individual copper plates stand out.  I ended up removing it and, like Blue Ensign, have simply left mine to "weather" as is.  After 4 years it has taken on a rather nice tarnished look, definitely still a copper finish but a much more subdued shine.

 

In the end it is up to personal preference.  Given the quality of your work I am sure that whatever you choose will end up looking great.

John

Thanks! That is what I am a bit afraid of. Putting on something I then want to remove  Do you have a picture of Pegasus look like after 4 years?

[GrandpaPhil]

Here is a current picture of my Prince de Neufchatel along with the type of sealant used (or equivalent).  

I built it six years ago.

 

The hull has aged well.

Edited January 31 by GrandpaPhil

[Clark]

14 hours ago, GrandpaPhil said:

Here is a current picture of my Prince de Neufchatel along with the type of sealant used (or equivalent).  

I built it six years ago.

 

The hull has aged well.

Thanks. Looks fine.

[Knocklouder]

I used this glue for my coppering, no fumes and it sticks very good.And it washs off with water. When it was coppered. I sprayed two coats of flat  clear 2x, by Rustolim.   Have a look at @Glen McGuire log for his Mamoli's CSS Alabama, his has been finished for 4years, my  copper on the Pegasus is only 16 months old. 

At least you don't have to ware a mask well coppering  its super Phatic glue.

Bob M.

Edited February 1 by Knocklouder

[WestPort]

On 1/31/2025 at 9:04 AM, Jrlaiho said:

Thanks! That is what I am a bit afraid of. Putting on something I then want to remove  Do you have a picture of Pegasus look like after 4 years?

I attached a photo of the ship right after coppering, after lacquer sprayed and (after removing the lacquer) as it sits now.  The finish in the current photo is a bit difficult to see as I am taking the picture through the case.  Its only been 4 years so I assume that the "ageing" of the copper will continue to get more deep over time.   

Edited February 1 by WestPort

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  I love your uniform ... as for aging copper, one can hard boil 2 eggs and remove the yolks when half cooled.  Mash the yolks with a fork in a small plastic container, then place the coppered hull (turned turtle) in a large plastic bag along with the container of warm egg yolk - and seal with enough air (you can breath into the bag to puff it) so that nothing is touching the copper.  The egg will emit a small amount of hydrogen sulphide gas, that will darken the coppering within an hour or so (remember, nothing is touching the copper)...  you can experiment on a small scale with sample plates to see if you like the effect.

  Watch the hull through the plastic (or model case if used) and take it out when the color is OK.  The color is something like a metallic grey.  To get green tinges, mix 1/3 cup white vinegar with 1 teaspoon of salt.  This can be lightly dabbed over the copper with a cotton ball (again, experiment with sample plates).  As the green splotches develop the process is stopped by wiping away with plain water.

  Jewelry makers often use a 'fast' method of 'livers of sulphur' ... but the effects are near instant and can be drastic, unless the stuff is very diluted in water.

[James H]

What a gorgeous Indy!

[Gregory]

1 hour ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

..as for aging copper, one can hard boil 2 eggs

This is the cupola of my Resolution.   It is copper leaf.  Put it in a sandwich bag with boiled egg over night.  (As you said, just the yolks would have worked.) Actually ended up a little darker than I would have liked, so a shorter time than overnight would have resulted in a good effect.

It is easy to buff out if it gets too dark.

 

 

I can't imagine why anyone would go to the trouble of using some kind of brush-on chemical aging process.

[Jrlaiho]

On 2/1/2025 at 12:11 PM, Knocklouder said:

I used this glue for my coppering, no fumes and it sticks very good.And it washs off with water. When it was coppered. I sprayed two coats of flat  clear 2x, by Rustolim.   Have a look at @Glen McGuire log for his Mamoli's CSS Alabama, his has been finished for 4years, my  copper on the Pegasus is only 16 months old. 

At least you don't have to ware a mask well coppering  its super Phatic glue.

Bob M.

Thank you for the suggestion! I have to try Super Phatic! next time. A good alternative to CA wold be most welcome. Your Pegasus looks very nice!

[Jrlaiho]

On 2/1/2025 at 4:34 PM, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  I love your uniform ... as for aging copper, one can hard boil 2 eggs and remove the yolks when half cooled.  Mash the yolks with a fork in a small plastic container, then place the coppered hull (turned turtle) in a large plastic bag along with the container of warm egg yolk - and seal with enough air (you can breath into the bag to puff it) so that nothing is touching the copper.  The egg will emit a small amount of hydrogen sulphide gas, that will darken the coppering within an hour or so (remember, nothing is touching the copper)...  you can experiment on a small scale with sample plates to see if you like the effect.

  Watch the hull through the plastic (or model case if used) and take it out when the color is OK.  The color is something like a metallic grey.  To get green tinges, mix 1/3 cup white vinegar with 1 teaspoon of salt.  This can be lightly dabbed over the copper with a cotton ball (again, experiment with sample plates).  As the green splotches develop the process is stopped by wiping away with plain water.

  Jewelry makers often use a 'fast' method of 'livers of sulphur' ... but the effects are near instant and can be drastic, unless the stuff is very diluted in water.

Have so far tried both boiled eggs and liver of sulphur on a small scale only. As you mentioned liver of sulphur can be drastic, so I did not find it very easy to use. It can be quite a challenge bagging a hull of this size, as you suggest, but maybe not impossible. Otherwise the egg method could be an option. When trying it the result was not very even on my test surface. That might be a result of poor cleaning though. 

[Jrlaiho]

On 2/1/2025 at 4:47 PM, James H said:

What a gorgeous Indy!

Thanks James! As you know the kit is excellent and comes with a good manual with excellent photos  That helps a lot!

[georgeband]

I plated my 1/64 model of HMS Whiting (Caldercraft Ballahou schooner) with Amati plates and it took me about 100 hours to finish the job. Apart from being a slow worker I trimmed the plates so that they did not overlap and betray the overscale thickness. It's a slow process. The picture below shows part of the stern, and a fingerprint to prove that I did it. There are a few narrow gaps between some plates but they are not visible at normal viewing distances. 

I used grade 0000 steel wool to clean the surface. It caught in a couple of places where a corner of a plate was slightly proud so remedial work with superglue was needed. 

 

I wanted to keep the copper shiny. Partly this is personal preference because I want to reflect lighting in the display case when it is finished. The other reason is that the copper remains shiny under the water; the brown or green patina requires air for it to develop. I chose Renaissance wax as mentioned above by RossR and applied it with a miniaturised version of the technique shown in the film Karate Kid - wax on, wax off. A couple of years later the copper is still bright. 

 

George