Sternwheeler From the Susquehanna River's Hard Coal Navy by Keith Black - 1:120 Scale

[mcb]

Hi Keith,

As wefalck said you sure didn't waste any time getting to this one.

I really like the choice of these interesting, slightly dilapidated subjects.  In the first 2 photos it looks like there may be some sag in the stern😮.

The pic in post 29 looks like you will get a lot of useful information from it though the boat appears newer and not so beat-up.

I agree that its: Pennsylvania Water and Power,

If its not too late you may be able to contact The Hagley Museum in Wilmington DE, as it seems they have some of the company archives and photos.

Perhaps you could get some more info (photos) that way.

Thanks for posting this,

mcb

[Keith Black]

9 hours ago, mcb said:

As wefalck said you sure didn't waste any time getting to this one.

I really like the choice of these interesting, slightly dilapidated subjects.  In the first 2 photos it looks like there may be some sag in the stern😮.

The pic in post 29 looks like you will get a lot of useful information from it though the boat appears newer and not so beat-up.

I agree that its: Pennsylvania Water and Power,

If its not too late you may be able to contact The Hagley Museum in Wilmington DE, as it seems they have some of the company archives and photos.

Perhaps you could get some more info (photos) that way.

Thanks for posting this,

 Thank you, mcb. I'm happiest when modeling, I need a project that calls to me throughout the day and these quirky rigs are fascinating and tickle my imagination.  

 

 The one in post #29 is a horizontal boiler, the one I'm trying to model I believe to be a vertical boiler and is a smaller boat. 

[Javelin]

On 5/30/2025 at 12:21 PM, Keith Black said:

 

 2) There's a smaller exhaust stack visible next to and to the rear of a steam whistle at the rear edge of the pilothouse. In the first photo only a wisp of smoke can be seen but in the last photo the amount of smoke is much more pronounced. Question is, why type of engine does it lead to? I don't think an electric generator would create the amount of exhaust seen in the last photo but electricity was used based on the forward light atop the pilothouse along with a working light on the port side plus a light bulb that can be seen at the top edge of forward engine room wall 

Late as ever, but you can count me in! 

 

I'd say that small pipe is an overpressure vent from the boiler. Based on the white colour of the smoke in your last picture as well as the fact that she is manoeuvering with that barge near the quay in that picture. She'd be reducing and/or reversing her engine at that time, which would create an imbalance with the steam production/consumption in the boiler. 

In those first pictures, she's made fast on the bow, but keeps pushing forward against the quay to keep her in position, which would create a steady steam balance and no need for venting any overpressure. 

Just my 2 cents, I'm not a specialist on steam systems of that age. 

 

I'll be happy to follow this build, lots of opportunities for weathering! 

 

[Keith Black]

5 hours ago, Javelin said:

Late as ever, but you can count me in! 

 

I'd say that small pipe is an overpressure vent from the boiler. Based on the white colour of the smoke in your last picture as well as the fact that she is manoeuvering with that barge near the quay in that picture. She'd be reducing and/or reversing her engine at that time, which would create an imbalance with the steam production/consumption in the boiler. 

In those first pictures, she's made fast on the bow, but keeps pushing forward against the quay to keep her in position, which would create a steady steam balance and no need for venting any overpressure. 

Just my 2 cents, I'm not a specialist on steam systems of that age. 

 

I'll be happy to follow this build, lots of opportunities for weathering! 

 

 Roel, thank you for the input and following along. You are absolutely correct, the pipe next to the steam whistle is the waste steam exhaust pipe. I had come to that conclusion earlier in the week but hadn't yet posted a corrected observation, thank you for doing so. Also regarding high pressure water pumps. I plan on building a twin beam engine for the boiler feed and for water used on deck for wash down, etc. 

 

 

  I'm having trouble figuring out what I'm looking at  in the below image. There is a thing on the port side engine deck, directly aft of the port side light board. In an unknown white triangle I see what I think is tube entering the top of a pipe (It could also be an electrical wire entering the top of a pipe) in the center of what looks like a VW tire rim layer flat. I have no earthly idea what this thing is???? Suggestions would be greatly appreciated. There's a three foot wide wall locker on the engine shed port side wall directly beneath the unknown object, possible connection unknown. There may have been a corresponding one on the starboard side but if so, it's been ripped away. If you look closely at the starboard side engine room deck edge you can see the deck edge is jagged fore of the starboard side light board and missing about 10 inches in and 36 inches aft of the light board. The light board could possibly have been replaced. Damage looks like the area was hit with a dredge bucket.  

l

[Glen McGuire]

7 hours ago, Javelin said:

I'd say that small pipe is an overpressure vent from the boiler.

If anyone knows about piping, it's got to be Roel!

[Cathead]

20 hours ago, Keith Black said:

There is a thing on the port side engine deck, directly aft of the port side light board. In an unknown white triangle I see what I think is tube entering the top of a pipe (It could also be an electrical wire entering the top of a pipe) in the center of what looks like a VW tire rim layer flat. I have no earthly idea what this thing is????

My first reaction is that it's the bow of a small boat, turned upside down. That's right where it might be kept. The white triangle is the shape of the hull, and the pipe/wire is simply the minor keel and its extension up the bow. There's enough room next to the pilot house to keep a little skiff and every vessel like this would have one.

[wefalck]

I think, Eric is right about the dinghy.

[Keith Black]

3 hours ago, Cathead said:

My first reaction is that it's the bow of a small boat, turned upside down. That's right where it might be kept. The white triangle is the shape of the hull, and the pipe/wire is simply the minor keel and its extension up the bow. There's enough room next to the pilot house to keep a little skiff and every vessel like this would have one.

 Eric, thank you but for whatever reason I'm having a hard time seeing that as the bow of a dinghy. I wish it was a aha moment because there should be a dinghy somewhere aboard and it removes one of the many question marks. If you and Eberhard see a dinghy then dinghy it is and I'll build accordingly. Thank you again!

 

1 hour ago, wefalck said:

I think, Eric is right about the dinghy.

 Thank you, Eberhard.   

[clearway]

Turn your back for a second and away he goes again- going to have to rename you" the stern wheeler kid " Keith😁.

 

Here is a pic of the coal fired dredger Clearway which worked Whitehaven harbour from 1928 till 1991 - the original steam crane was replaced with a diesel one in the late 60s and the pic shows the inflatable life boat which replaced the original wooden ones in the early 80s and yes she kept her coal fired steam plant right til the end which when she was scrapped was converted to oil firing and ended up in a scandinavian steamer that was being restored.

keep  up the good work

 

Keith

[Cathead]

Keith, I'm away from home right now but in a few days I can mock up that view using one of my steamboats and see if I can help you see what I see.

[Glen McGuire]

I was with Eric and Wefalck at first, but the more I look at it, the less I see dinghy bow.  It does look like there's a keel, but it seems to stop abruptly at the black thing.  The top end of the black thing looks like it's looped around the end of the keel thing.  If it's a keel, you can see the end sticking thru the black thing.  That doesn't make sense to me.  Could the white thing be a cover of some kind and the black thing is a tie-down?  Maybe a dinghy cover?  Also, the white doesn't lie flat on the slanted roof, but level with the water.  I'm stumped.

[Cathead]

Glen,

 

What we might be seeing is the sternpost? Flattened to accept a rudder? That would explain the straight black bit that transitions into the curved lower part of the keel. As for lying "flat" and not at the angle of the slanted roof, it may well have support blocks that keep it "level". Why have a dinghy stored in such a way that it's predisposed to slide off a slanted roof? If you look close, you can even see where the upside-down gunwale hangs out over a shadow below that would fit as some kind of support block.

 

It still looks strongly like a small boat to me.

[Keith Black]

8 hours ago, clearway said:

Turn your back for a second and away he goes again- going to have to rename you" the stern wheeler kid " Keith😁.

 I've got this sternwheeler virus bad. 

 

8 hours ago, clearway said:

Here is a pic of the coal fired dredger Clearway which worked Whitehaven harbour from 1928 till 1991 - the original steam crane was replaced with a diesel one in the late 60s and the pic shows the inflatable life boat which replaced the original wooden ones in the early 80s and yes she kept her coal fired steam plant right til the end which when she was scrapped was converted to oil firing and ended up in a scandinavian steamer that was being restored.

 Now there's a working boat that you need to build, Keith. That's a fine example of one. 

 

4 hours ago, Cathead said:

Keith, I'm away from home right now but in a few days I can mock up that view using one of my steamboats and see if I can help you see what I see.

 Thank you, Eric. Yes, please because I'm having a devil of a time seeing it but as I said, I'd dearly love for you to convince me it's a dinghy because it makes life much easier. 

 

4 hours ago, Glen McGuire said:

I was with Eric and Wefalck at first, but the more I look at it, the less I see dinghy bow.  It does look like there's a keel, but it seems to stop abruptly at the black thing.  The top end of the black thing looks like it's looped around the end of the keel thing.  If it's a keel, you can see the end sticking thru the black thing.  That doesn't make sense to me.  Could the white thing be a cover of some kind and the black thing is a tie-down?  Maybe a dinghy cover?  Also, the white doesn't lie flat on the slanted roof, but level with the water.  I'm stumped.

 Glen, I very much wanna believe but I don't see a dinghy, then I don't know what I'm seeing. As far a being a dinghy cover, I'm not sure a dinghy cover was a priority item aboard this vessel.

 

 

 One of the many things we've yet to discuss is crew. Only two crew members are pictured and I don't see hide nor hair of a third which would have been the engineer. Could they have gotten away with just a two man crew? That seems a bit sketchy. 

Edited 16 hours ago by Keith Black

[Keith Black]

22 minutes ago, Cathead said:

What we might be seeing is the sternpost? Flattened to accept a rudder? That would explain the straight black bit that transitions into the curved lower part of the keel. As for lying "flat" and not at the angle of the slanted roof, it may well have support blocks that keep it "level". Why have a dinghy stored in such a way that it's predisposed to slide off a slanted roof? If you look close, you can even see where the upside-down gunwale hangs out over a shadow below that would fit as some kind of support block.

 

It still looks strongly like a small boat to me.

 Thank you, Eric. There are so many questions about parts of this push boat that are hidden or the view obstructed. I think what I need to do is build the hull, replicate the engine room, and pilothouse as faithfully as possible and then start adding those obscured items including, the boiler, wheel's steam cylinders, mud drum, beam engine for boiler feed, hand pump, and coal bin.