Constitution by patrickmil - Model Shipways - 1/76th

[Guest Tim I.]

Yikes, I hope your modifications solve your issue. 

 

- Tim

[Trussben]

Sounds like a good approach to take Patrick.

 

Ben

[HIPEXEC]

Sometimes I think bad plans are part of the challenge..to see if we catch the error or omission. Very frustrating, though, when you follow the plan only to find out you have a major fix to create.

[patrickmil]

Tim, Ben and Rich, thanks for taking the time to comment. I'm almost done with evening up these bulkheads. I'm hoping pictures will be up tonight. Before I even think about putting on the keel and fairing these bulkheads I'm going to have to put some framing into the bulwark area as those darn pieces keep snapping off on me every time my clumsy hands pick this hull up. I will say this... I've made my decision to go with what Humphrey originally intended her to look like; a very ornamented warship with no gun port lids, a yellow gunport stripe that is filleted at the bow, an open waist and a full 60 gun compliment. I've gotten through most of my research and am going with Tyrone Martin's conclusion that Constitution may have had up to eight ship's boats as well. At this point, I think this is nearing scratch build more than kit.

[popeye the sailor]

the more research you do, the more changes and additions.......pretty soon, your not in Kansas anymore! with multiple builds of the Connie going on, it's neat to see the individual takes on her. looking forward in seeing the finished frame work

[Guest Tim I.]

Patrick,

 

I am really interested to see the direction you are taking your build. What are you working from for a source the stern ornamentation?

 

- Tim

[patrickmil]

Popeye, I chose to go this way because I haven't seen it yet. Tim, the stern ornamentation is redrawn nicely in AOTS. I also got a nice picture from Russ who messaged me fairly quickly after I expressed interest in this direction. I've been reading Cmdr Martin's book and his descriptions match up nicely with the pictures I've got. I have found that he is an impeccable wealth of information. My stern will have eight tall rectangular windows, one on each quarter gallery.

[Guest Tim I.]

Looking forward to seeing it!

 

- Tim

[CaptainSteve]

... My stern will have eight tall rectangular windows, one on each quarter gallery.

 

Is that as per pic C2/3 from pg 67 of AOTS .... ??

Coz that is, by far, my favourite !!!

[patrickmil]

CaptainSteve, that is in fact what I am going to attempt. As I'm completely new at carving in such small detail, we can all count on this being a pretty long build. That is also my favorite stern as well. One, it looks so completely different than any other configuration out there, and two, it's not as plain as the others and is completely beautiful.

[MEDDO]

The Constitution is in my queue so i will be following along with ya here.  I had started this using the LSS practicum but it met an unfortunate accident and I need to try to rehab the hull a bit before starting again.  I think someone in the "yellow stripe" thread mentioned something about a pending renovation that might change the number of stern windows.  I am interested in what will come.

[patrickmil]

Michael, thanks for dropping by. Since you've already started this kit maybe you can help point out any mistakes on my part before they happen.

[MEDDO]

Its been shelved for a couple years now but I also remember a bit of asymmetry with the bulkheads.  The LSS practicum helps a lot with those types of things but it does deviate from the kit supplied instructions quite a bit.  

[patrickmil]

Michael, I just noticed where you live and your awesome avatar. Do you plan on putting Niagara together one day?

[CaptainSteve]

CaptainSteve, that is in fact what I am going to attempt. As I'm completely new at carving in such small detail, we can all count on this being a pretty long build. That is also my favorite stern as well. One, it looks so completely different than any other configuration out there, and two, it's not as plain as the others and is completely beautiful.

 

Patrick, I'll be looking forward to seeing how you fare with this. When I progress to that stage of my own Constitution build, that is the stern arrangement I have decided that I would like to use. 

[MEDDO]

Michael, I just noticed where you live and your awesome avatar. Do you plan on putting Niagara together one day?

 

That's a picture of the Pride of Baltimore II.  I have been gravitating toward the smaller ships recently.  The Niagara as well as the Syren are on the "way future build" list.  I really like the schooners as well as the single decked warships.  

 

I assume many of us have the same disease/problem.... As soon as I finish the Halifax then onto Pride of Baltimore II then I can fix/complete the Constitution then goto the Rattlesnake then the Fair American then the..........haha  

 

A lifetime of building ahead...

[alde]

 

I assume many of us have the same disease/problem.... As soon as I finish the Halifax then onto Pride of Baltimore II then I can fix/complete the Constitution then goto the Rattlesnake then the Fair American then the..........haha  

 

A lifetime of building ahead...

I can think of worse addictions to have.  I am the same way with kits in the closet. My ultimate goal is Constitution as I spent lots of time aboard when I was a kid in the 70's. I love the ship and the stories about her. I just need to build enough experience to do her justice.

[alde]

Patrick, Can you share the evidence you have for no gun ports?  I have a pile of references on Contitution that I have not read yet but am curious.

 

Thanks, Al D.

[patrickmil]

Michael, LOL, the small picture looked like Niagara at first glance. I've got a list of things I'd like to build as well. Al, you're absolutely right, there are worse things we could be doing with our time and money.  As far as reference material for gun port lids, I haven't actually read anything credible yet that actually mentions they weren't there, but all of the Corne paintings of show no lids at all. It has been deducted by many folks out there that during her very early years she had lids that were strapped, bolted or latched into place in heavy seas but these were removed and stowed when getting ready for action. I'm toying with the idea of modeling one of the cannons and battle stations in a larger scale once I get this framework completed. The framework feels like it's taking forever because every time it's nice out I end out in the garage with my large honey-do list.

[schooner]

Hi Patrick,

 Should you decide to model one of Connie's battle stations you might consider asking some help from the US Navy Museum at the Washington Navy Yard, they have a full scale mockup of 2 of Connie's guns on the gun deck. A little phone time and I'm sure you could find someone who would agree to take some photos if you mailed them a drug store camera and a return envelope. If no luck let me know and I could run down there and take some pix for you.

Of course the folks onboard the real USS  C up in Boston would probably do the same thing too.

Tim

Edited April 27, 2014 by schooner

[patrickmil]

Tim, that's an awesome suggestion. If I can't find what I'm looking for online then I will be sure to contact some folks in Baltimore. I was thinking about how the first crew would have secured the port lids and wanted to play around with some ideas surrounding that question. I was thinking that possibly they could have put the port lids in place with some form of cloth in between them and the inner walls of the gun port and then secured with some sort of heavy slide latch. They would almost to have handles then so the crew could pull them out of place once they needed to run out the guns. I've also heard mention that the port lids may have been nailed in place, but I would think this wouldn't be an ideal solution as eventually the wood would deteriorate to the point that the lids wouldn't be tightly fastened. Another question on this would be if they were inserted from the inside or the outside. They would certainly lend more strength being put in place from the outside but how would they go about doing it? Were the port lids the same thickness as the bulwarks. That would also make them fairly heavy and unwieldy. A thinner port lid might not seal up properly though. And lastly, where would they have been stowed so as not to create a tripping hazard in the heat of battle? 

 

Maybe I need to find something better to think about in my spare time... 

[Guest Tim I.]

Patrick, 

 

I have done a lot of research on the Constitution. Often items like that (the lids) were stored out of way, most likely on the Orlop deck so they were out of the way in case the ship moved into action, but easily retrievable from below when quickly needed for heavy weather or seas. 

 

Re-attaching them possibly was done with a rope seat, or a boatswain's chair from the exterior of the vessel, but this is conjecture on my part.

___
 

Here is a teaser of a very quick battle station model I did in 1:24 scale of the Constitution. Model Shipways has the cannon on sale right now so all in all I put about $150 into building this. I used the AOTS to build it.

 

 

 

 

- Tim

[patrickmil]

Tim, thanks for the great pictures of your battle station. What you're saying certainly makes sense. I'll keep scratching my head on this for a bit. I was looking over AOTS and thinking the cross sections would be great for creating a battle station.

[Guest Tim I.]

Patrick,

 

To answer your question more succinctly on the lids, I also have found nothing to substantiate either way. My statement above, is only based on common naval shipboard practice at the time.

 

- Tim

[alde]

The book The Sailing Frigate: A History in Ship Models by Robert Gardiner shows models of several frigates (British) of that period with no ports. I understand the Admiralty models did not have them to better show the ship design but the book also shows several fully rigged ships with no ports. If this book shows the actual configuration it looks like the ships with an open waist tended to have no ports. This book is a great reference with really nice photos of period models.

 

Just what you need is another reference to help cloud the issue.

[alde]

Patrick,

 

Just to add more information into the pile here are 2 drawings I came accross from the National Archives Online Resources. They are outboard profile and sail plans drawn in 1817 and is a very high resolution images. They clearly shows no gunports. There are also some other interesting details. If nothing else they are cool period drawings of the ship in high resolution.

 

http://media.nara.gov/social-media/gallery/19-4-43-2011-001.pdf

 

http://media.nara.gov/cartographic/gallery/RG_19_Dash_108_12_2.PDF

 

 

Al D.

Edited April 30, 2014 by alde

[texxn5]

Nice, just checking in Patrick. Looks good.

[patrickmil]

Al, I appreciate the links and further information regarding the gun port lids. I am definitely planning on no gun port lids at this point. I would like to make a battle station mock-up to go along with my Connie so a lot of my questions in this area are about securing the little details. John, thanks for looking in on me. I am actually working on Connie (and some progress is being made), it's just slow going with so many other things tugging me in every direction. I'm almost finished with the bulkheads.

[Guest Tim I.]

Al, I appreciate the links and further information regarding the gun port lids. I am definitely planning on no gun port lids at this point. I would like to make a battle station mock-up to go along with my Connie so a lot of my questions in this area are about securing the little details. John, thanks for looking in on me. I am actually working on Connie (and some progress is being made), it's just slow going with so many other things tugging me in every direction. I'm almost finished with the bulkheads.

 

Patrick,

 

What scale will you be doing your battle-station in?

 

- Tim

[patrickmil]

Tim, I'm not sure yet. I'm thinking possibly 1/32nd scale but I haven't measured anything out yet to see if it's what I want to accompany Connie when she's in her final display.